<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by channe: He had enough trouble writing all of B5, or that's what I've gleaned from his online comments.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Writing all the episodes is not something he plans to do again.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
I hope that the movie does NOT, however, turn into Young Rangers In Space in an effort to get ratings and viewers (I wouldn't put JMS above it, really; he wants the show to go on as much as we do, methinks).
The fact that you worry about such a thing Proves you don't know much about how JMS works and thinks.
He plans to Raise The Bar, not lower it.
Go to The B5JMS Archives at: http://lists.cs.columbia.edu/pipermail/b5jms/
and read through a few of his posts. You'll quickly see that JMS is a thoroughly Subversive sort of individual. He's looking for ways to make an audience go "OHMYGHOD", not ways to put them to sleep.
Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by channe: I hope that the movie does NOT, however, turn into Young Rangers In Space in an effort to get ratings and viewers (I wouldn't put JMS above it, really; he wants the show to go on as much as we do, methinks).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Hahahaha... Are you aware how many shows he's walked off because the higher ups tried to make them into something he didn't want to write?
I don't particularly want them to bring back Crusade. If it will be Five-Year-Arc like people are saying it will they'll be running into the events in A Call to Arms and Crusade around Season 2 and 3. Who knows, maybe some of those Ranger scout crews that check out possible worlds for the Excalibur's researchers may very well be the Liandra and her crew.
What I'm PERSONALLY hoping for, is a big award ceremony for Ranger's courage in battle with Delenn and Sheridan hosting the thing handing out medals to Martel and the crew.... -Then suddenly terrorists try to take over and the good guys accompanied by J&D have to fight them off!
Roy Batty: I’ve seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain... Time to die.
I'd like a Captain/Commander, whatever, that was not your good old typical American Hero (Read - Sheridan/Gideon).
Speaking for non-Americans - give us a break! A few years back I was watching the release of 'Independence Day' at the cinema, when the Brits came on in the Middle East and said 'It'a about time the Yanks thought of something', the groan that went through the cinema was telling. When I saw it again, the same thing. The worst thing about the movie, way too much Yankie testosterone! I love Americans, but if only they would write characters with at least three-dimensions, it would be a relief!
Sheridan's gung ho attitude got old quick, and so did Gideon's - after four episodes it seemed like old ground. So, it would be great to have a lead character who wasn't Mr Hero, but more in the mould of Sinclair if anything. The hero should be humbled by his conscience and the weight of his position, not ruled by his own massive ego.
I too would love to see Legend go to a series, and possess an intense, epic five year story arc.
I'd love to see more of the mentioned Telepath War, and some stuff about the Alliance. Plus, it would be nice to conclude the Drakh plague bit. It was always anti-climactic because we knew everyone was cured because of scenes shot on Earth in 'Sleeping in Light'.
Most of all, I would love to see something epic. I don't envy JMS having to top the Shadow storyline. That kept me on the edge of my seat for two years.
I honestly thought Sheridan and Gideon were VERY 3 dimensional. Sheridan, for example, did not just run around for 4 years and blow things up. He did what he had to do, what he was forced to do, and what his heart told him to do. That is the very definition of a hero, to do what must be done when no one else will. The difference is with Sheridan, his actions had consequences.
which is what made B5 great.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>...when the Brits came on in the Middle East and said 'It'a about time the Yanks thought of something'<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Except, of course, that isn't what they said. So once again the excessively touchy Brits are getting their noses out of joint about something they imagined they saw or heard in an American movie.
What is actually shown is that a British contingent in the Middle East has organized surviving military forces from a lot of formerly hostile countries and is - like its counterparts elsewhere - trying to find a way to strike back. (Implied by the run-down of the available forces that the commander's second is giving him when we pick up the scene.) Remember the situation: Just a couple of days after the initial assault, surviving military forces are cut-off from their home countries because the satellite communication system is down and all major cities have been destroyed. So everybody is trying to figure out what to do in isolation. There is no coordination or overall strategy.
One of the Arab forces picks up the signal from the Americans. An RAF-type reads the message and says, "It's from the Americans. They want to organize a counter-offensive." The British commander then says, "It's about bloody time." Which I took to mean, "It's about bloody time somebody thought about organizing a counter-offensive."
He then asks the quite sensible question, "What do they plan to do?" He's not assuming the Americans have the solution. He's just glad that somebody's trying something because he's just spent the last several days getting his butt kicked (like the Marine aviators in California) and losing men. ("We know the Belgian contingent in the Sinai is gone.")
Besides, exactly what were you expecting in a movie named after our most important patriotic holiday?
Of course I don’t know JMS well! I live in the middle of nowhere in a state on the wrong seaboard for knowing JMS! J
I don’t think we should idealize JMS’ motives, here. He’s a great television writer and has quite a knack for storytelling, but we have to remember that human beings are capable of all things, including compromises.
I’m not talking about TNT-type compromises. Little ones.
Then again, I’m naturally cynical. So…
And, remember, the last Young People In Space series, Space Above And Beyond, wasn’t all THAT bad…
Channe, Freelance Writer Extraordinaire and The Next JMS
B5 Synchroninity of the Day: I just found out that the new dorm I'm living in next year has been named Breen Hall.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by channe: Of course I don?t know JMS well! I live in the middle of nowhere in a state on the wrong seaboard for knowing JMS!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>And I live on the other side of the globe, but that's why we have jmsnews, The B5jms list and rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>I don?t think we should idealize JMS? motives, here. He?s a great television writer and has quite a knack for storytelling, but we have to remember that human beings are capable of all things, including compromises.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>He wouldn't be where he was today if he refused to include any changes requested by the network. The big question is if it can be done without noticably reducing the quality of the show. If it can't then he fires off the ultimatum. To illustrate, here's a snippet from April 1992, just before the pilot went into production: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>What I *can* say is this...that from the very first day, as those of you who've been around the longest know, everyone associated with B5 has dedicated him/herself to doing this one *right* in every possible sense of the word.
Budget, effects, the deal, control, the script, you name it, we've been *very* careful, and very dedicated to that singular proposition.
In any situation like this, if you're worth your salt, you come to one pivotal moment when you have to be willing to put *everything* on the line, to risk it all on one throw of the dice. In order to get the last elements we need, that's what I've had to do...we will either do this show right, on every level, or....
You get the idea.
I've put it all up to a roll of the dice...four years work, my team, everything. In order to do it *right*, or not at all. One of my prize possessions is a RAF wing-insignia from WW II. The motto read only, "Who Dares, Wins." And I believe that.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I'm glad he won.
[This message has been edited by drakh (edited August 03, 2001).]
They were three dimensional characters, I admit to be unfair in my criticism.
I guess to me, and this is simply one person's perception, they grated. But I will happily admit that Sheridan had a facinating character arc, which was excellently concieved, and wonderfully acted by Bruce Boxlietner.
Gideon, sorry to say this, it's almost painful to dislike something written by a man whose talents you admire greatly, but 'Crusade' just didn't do it for me. On so many levels. I just don't think I got it. In my naive assessment, I believe it had great potential, and I would have loved to see that potential maximised through it's run... but sadly The Powers That Be are decidedly insane! I found myself asking half way through 'would I be watching this if it wasn't done by JMS?' My answer after careful thought was 'yeah! I would.' It was obviously trying to do something and say something, and every first season is on unsteady ground because it is the set up.
Joseph, my memory may be faulty, but I was pretty sure the Brits said something along those lines... *shrugs*
And no, this isn't another Brit getting their knickers in a twist, it's an Aussie with sometimes unrealistic expectations of Science Fiction!
Sheridan and Gideon were two very focused characters. Honestly, I just believe that Sinclair spoiled me. Finally, there was a Sci-Fi lead who was not anything like Captain Kirk or Han Solo or some other type A hero.
No, I'm not saying Sheridan and Gideon were Solo or Kirk clones, but there was that similarity present that seemed to me (my perception only) to tell us that hero's have to be cocky and self sure, when the most interesting and heroic person is some ordinary Joe thrust into extraordinary situations.
I'm not making any sense, am I?
One last comment - Sheridan and Gideon worked, whether I got them or not. That much can't be denied. JMS did some creative and innovative stuff with them, and above all else respected the audience enough to create characters with an involved history, rather than to create on the run as the Star Trek producers and writers SEEM want to do.
BTW, sorry to throw us so far off thread!
What else would I like to see in Rangers?
Lots more on the Minbari! Gee, bet that was a surprise! And I hear we are going to get it!
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>I have to admit I had an image of you running to a cabinet or bookshelf, pulling out a copy of ID4 and forwarding it to that bit, just to enthusiastically put me in my place! *grins* Well, it worked.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, your image was wrong.
You don't have to forward DVDs, they have direct scene access.
And that particular scene was right at the beginning of a chapter, so it only took a few seconds to find it. (Also I rose calmly and walked - no jumping or running involved. But you were right about the bookshelf.
Seriously, I didn't remember that scene playing the way you described it, and I was curious to see which one of had the - er - less faulty memory.
Independence Day is a great DVD, by the way. It was one of the first of the "Five Star" releases from Fox, which were developed by Peter Staddon, VP of Fox Home Entertainment. If I'm not mistaken Peter is from Australia, originally.
As an American I can say Independence Day was a TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE movie.
I liked Sinclair, he was this nice guy with this sick suicidal bent to him that was great. In the first episode (not counting the Gathering) you see him daring G'Kar to kill him! That's what won me over on his side immedietaly. The fact that he wasn't particularly stable or smart when it came to taking care of himself.
People are often defined by what is human about them. Emotionally distant (Ivanova), hopeless romantic (Lennier and Marcus), hot-headed and alcoholic (Garibaldi), unsure about who they are (Zack and Sinclair), confrontational and patriotic to a fault (Londo and G'Kar).
Everybody on the main cast had at least one human characteristic. Something that made them less than perfect. Sheridan and Delenn DIDN'T though. Unless you count their confidence there was really nothing wrong with them. And they lacked for it.
They were listed first in the credits and yet they were the dullest characters in the whole piece. Really, (for me) G'Kar and Londo were the emotional center of the whole series.
Trevor: One wish, and it's yours.
Trevor: Just no heads on plates. I'm going to get a drink, would you like one?
Cybil: No, no thank you.
Trevor: Right, that would have been it you know.
I see Sinclair as a Type A personality. He was fully expected to be a Future Admiral before the Earth Minbari War.
At the Battle of the Line, he went to Hell. Along with most of his best friends. He came back. Most of them didn't.
Sinclair still has that terrible load of Survivor Guilt ten years later. It has stalled his career. He often seems to have a death wish. But, this is because he has a greater than average reluctance to allow someone Else to die when he can prevent it.
As we find out in "Voice In The Wilderness" he is also a man looking for a Cause. Something worth Dying For. A reason why HE was spared at the Battle of the Line when so many others died.
The tip off, though, is that whenever Leadership is needed, he is instantly Ready.
In War Without End, he seems content to observe. Until Sheridan becomes unstuck in time. While eeryone else is dithering about What To Do, Sinclair calmly takes command and reminds them of the Purpose they all had in being where they are. He does it so naturally, you almost forget that, just moments earlier, he was playing Passenger.
That is definitely Type A.
Just not your run of the mill, Cardboard Cutout, type a.
Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?
When dealing with wars and epic conflicts, you need to have a "type A" hero personality. World War II had Patton (and a bunch more), the Civil War had Grant, American War of Independance had Washington, Israel had Moshe Dayan, etc.
It's one of those elements that you need to have a show like that.
"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."
Of course that movie was supposed to have a pro-American bias. It's called Independance Day, stars one of the US' most popular pop cultural icons with a distinctly American hip-hop attitude, and features an unrealistic John Sheridan type American president. It was created for Americans to go to the theater, pump their fists in the air, and chant "USA! USA! USA!"
"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."
In all honesty, though it hurts to say this, quality SF on television again.
StarGate SG1 - *yawn*
Star Trek - oh how I love it, but am I sick of episodic television or what!
Babylon 5 was just something else. It has ruined me for Science Fiction. To watch something unravel over five years, and to find that you can still rewatch it over and over again since it ended... the Great Maker got it right.
If I were to make a brief comparison between Star Trek and Babylon 5 - which I am about to do
- I would say one of the greatest reliefs about B5 was the total lack of technobabble.
Some days, I entertain this strange fantasy, JMS is given control of Star Trek, and then we see some real stories, and some real character development.
So, all I want from B5 LotR is a great ongoing story that will keep me guessing right up until the end. Great characters that I want to get to know. Great and challenging messages that make me think and consider my world view.
I'd also like to see Delenn, Ivonava and Lyta making guest appearances throughout!
Do you think I'm asking too much?
"Officially, I'm a P5. Unofficially, my range is more... much more."
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Myrl:
Everybody on the main cast had at least one human characteristic. Something that made them less than perfect. Sheridan and Delenn DIDN'T though. Unless you count their confidence there was really nothing wrong with them.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I find Delenn to be very human and extremely similar to Sinclair - but from an opposite perspective. She possesses the same uncertainty and guilt - not for surviving, but for ordering the war to be started. Delenn has once let anger contol herself - and nearly caused the destruction of humanity. You can notice a fear of doing the same again, causing her to avoid decisions and decline from the position of Chosen One. She might tell others that the Universe knows what it's doing... but personally, she's not quite sure.
Delenn, just like Sinclair, seems to be testing her fate - although in different ways. No, she doesn't attempt reasoning with an Ikarran organic weapon... but completes a process that might not transform but simply dissolve her, goes to comfort a race dying of a virulent plague, agrees to "chat" with a Vorlon inquisitor and even after that doesn't seem quite sure if she has a reason to live.
Yet both find their reason to live - Sinclair from the past (becoming Valen and perhaps finding Catherine Sakai) and Delenn from the present - as John Sheridan, with who she no longer feels uncertain. If you try to find the less-than-perfect sides of Delenn and Sheridan, you should imagine them apart.
Without Delenn, Sheridan would have been an overly rash and emotional EF officer who got himself killed while opposing a rising dictatorship. Without Sheridan, Delenn would be the Satai who acted too late, sided with the Vorlons and saved half a galaxy, letting the other half burn and the cycle of Shadow wars continue. This pair of characters is meant to balance each other - which doesn't make them unrealistic at all.