LondosHair
Regular
In this case, pride and stupidity may well go hand-in-hand...
But, I shouldn't say such things. Never know who might be reading!
*dons Blinding Glasses of Paranoia +10*
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TMOS casting - a hersey
- Thread starter StarStuff
- Start date
But, I shouldn't say such things. Never know who might be reading!
*dons Blinding Glasses of Paranoia +10*
KoshN
Super Moderator
Always bet on stupidity.
Joe
Remember Lyta's reaction to Bester saying "I want your body." ? Well, that would be my reaction if that recasting idea was presented in a meeting I attended. <THWAK> as I hit 'em across the face with a 10 lb. cold, wet fish... "What?!? Are you OUT of your MIND?!?!?"
KoshN
Super Moderator
In this case, pride and stupidity may well go hand-in-hand...
But, I shouldn't say such things. Never know who might be reading!
Screw 'em!
You'd think they'd want to give the customer what he/she wants, building upon a pre-existing base of demand, not pissing off the customer hoping to attract more and different customers.
When JMS appeared at the NJ Comic Book Convention on May 8, 04, he was asked if he was approached for the Spider Man movie. He said, "I didn't think they would. It's a blockbuster movie and there are major film guys who are known for that. There's a certain odiousness, I've discovered lately, about TV writers woking in film. There's a certain stigma attached. That's why I haven't been asked . . ."
By the way, going to see a movie because of actors can be argued both ways. While I don't go to see a movie based on actors I sometime watch a movie because of the actors. I borrowed "Runaway Jury" from the library to see the two-second appearance of Peter Juraski (Londo). And while recovering from the flu, I watched an old Star Trek movie advertised in the TV listings as "hairpiece heaven."
By the way, going to see a movie because of actors can be argued both ways. While I don't go to see a movie based on actors I sometime watch a movie because of the actors. I borrowed "Runaway Jury" from the library to see the two-second appearance of Peter Juraski (Londo). And while recovering from the flu, I watched an old Star Trek movie advertised in the TV listings as "hairpiece heaven."
GaribaldisHair
Regular
Hmmm ... I think we are perhaps colouring WB as more devious than they really are.
If they had been planning a re-cast of every single original character from the off, why on earth would they give JMS the space to re-write a script they were apparently happy with following the death of Richard Biggs?
If they were going to re-cast Franklin anyway, surely it would have been brought up at that point in the process?
If they had been planning a re-cast of every single original character from the off, why on earth would they give JMS the space to re-write a script they were apparently happy with following the death of Richard Biggs?
If they were going to re-cast Franklin anyway, surely it would have been brought up at that point in the process?
Ninja_Squirrel
Regular
Joss Whedon is starting to break that rule. I think there a few other examples too, but I can't think of them right now.
macmaccaman
Member
There is something cruelly ironic about this casting fiasco. Its a bit like B5 is being punished for what has made it unique. TV Sci Fi that can survive what's thrown at it. The departure of the main actor in Series 1 would finish most TV shows, I'm sure Trek wouldnt have survived without Shatner or Nimoy, Stargate wouldnt have happened without RDA and Farscape was Ben Browder to all intents and purposes...
Perhaps there is a perception its not the actors that count. But they do, I have been a B5 fan for almost one year... and last week I saw Sleeping In Light for the first time. After seeing that, I am enraged by execs considering getting rid of my characters and their actors. Bruce Boxleitner is Sheridan, Jerry Doyle is Garabaldi, etc...
B5 survived character changes, not cast changes.
So yeah ... I am a fake B5 fan... !
Perhaps there is a perception its not the actors that count. But they do, I have been a B5 fan for almost one year... and last week I saw Sleeping In Light for the first time. After seeing that, I am enraged by execs considering getting rid of my characters and their actors. Bruce Boxleitner is Sheridan, Jerry Doyle is Garabaldi, etc...
B5 survived character changes, not cast changes.
So yeah ... I am a fake B5 fan... !
rangerPHIL
Beyond the rim
Hmmm ... I think we are perhaps colouring WB as more devious than they really are.
If they had been planning a re-cast of every single original character from the off, why on earth would they give JMS the space to re-write a script they were apparently happy with following the death of Richard Biggs?
If they were going to re-cast Franklin anyway, surely it would have been brought up at that point in the process?
that is a really good point....
Jan
Regular
Hmmm ... I think we are perhaps colouring WB as more devious than they really are.
If they had been planning a re-cast of every single original character from the off, why on earth would they give JMS the space to re-write a script they were apparently happy with following the death of Richard Biggs?
If they were going to re-cast Franklin anyway, surely it would have been brought up at that point in the process?
that is a really good point....
It probably only came up recently when WB started negotiating with other studios to distribute the film. The word we've gotten from the get-go is that it's the financial people who are wanting to recast.
Jan
Les_Greenhalgh
Member
If this is the case then I don't see why WB can't keep it in house and ship it to New Line (owned by WB), they seem to churn out a large number of modestly budgeted genre pictures (Blade, Hellboy, The Nightmare On Elmstreet films, Jason films etc), would have thought this would be right up their street...
regards,
les
Joseph DeMartino
Moderator
Who is to say that the other studio isn't New Line. The fact that the film is apparently shooting in the UK means nothing. Star Wars and Aliens both shot in the UK and both were Fox productions.
Even if WB had already decided to recast the original roles at the time of Richard Biggs's death - well, I've called Warner Bros. execs stupid from time to time, but even I don't think they're so callous, heartless and utterly devoid of human feelings that they would ring JMS while he was mourning the loss of his friend and say, "Hey, don't bother writing the dead guy out of the script, we were going with Chris Rock for the doctor anyway." I'm sure they would have respected the obvious feelings of the B5 family and left the role as a memorial to Biggs.
Regards,
Joe
Even if WB had already decided to recast the original roles at the time of Richard Biggs's death - well, I've called Warner Bros. execs stupid from time to time, but even I don't think they're so callous, heartless and utterly devoid of human feelings that they would ring JMS while he was mourning the loss of his friend and say, "Hey, don't bother writing the dead guy out of the script, we were going with Chris Rock for the doctor anyway."
I'm sure they would have respected the obvious feelings of the B5 family and left the role as a memorial to Biggs. Regards,
Joe
Za_Ha_Dum
Regular
Jan, are you sure about this information? It makes no sense at all!!! The financial people dislike risk, therefore, if it is being planned to make a feature film based on the impressive sales figures on DVD box set (read: fan base, or at least people who sympatize with B5), then they would be happy to please us, in order to reduce risk....
My guess is for the yuppies from feature film division of WB that know nothing about B5, think they know how to run this business and are totally prejudice regarding TV crew in feature films..... Close minded, stupid and, as already mentioned, arrogants......
Regards,
Cadu
KoshN
Super Moderator
Even if WB had already decided to recast the original roles at the time of Richard Biggs's death - well, I've called Warner Bros. execs stupid from time to time, but even I don't think they're so callous, heartless and utterly devoid of human feelings that they would ring JMS while he was mourning the loss of his friend and say, "Hey, don't bother writing the dead guy out of the script, we were going with Chris Rock for the doctor anyway."
Where's the <S> ? If you're serious about all that, you are far more optimistic about the Warner Bros. execs than I am. I doubt that they'd have any reservation about doing a "Hey, don't bother writing the dead guy out of the script, we were going with Chris Rock for the doctor anyway." Callous, heartless and utterly devoid of human feelings? ...no problem (for them), after all, it's just business. Compared to the people in business, most of which would sell their mother's soul for an extra bit of profit margin, Max Eilerson is a liberal humanitarian.
A_M_Swallow
Regular
The finance people will know and care more about tax law than viewers.
General Tax Rules for the Movie Industry
Financial Guidance Notes 2003
Some new tax rules (increases) are being introduced this year.
Supplemental Tax Information - Film
UK Government’s definition of a British Film
Criteria for British Films
and
Qualifying British Film Defined
Extract
(Translation you are allowed 2 Americans; make all the other jobs British)
Benefits of getting the film classified as British
Benefits of British Production
(I think it means that on a big film the studio can deduct tax over fewer years.)
[Edited by the moderator to make the damn links a tolerable length
-- jd
Za_Ha_Dum
Regular
A_M_Swallow,
Thanks for the info. Quite complete.
Still, using the regular and traditional TV would be less expensive, then, let´s say: Jeremy Irons, Anthony Hopkins or Sean Connery.
For instance, Mira Furlan could fit in this Tax Rules for European Community (for sure she still belong to some Croatian Acting Association).
Jason Carter also could be in (in case the movie has flashbacks such as "In the Beggining") and he is 100% UK actor.
Regards,
CADU
Thanks for the info. Quite complete.
Still, using the regular and traditional TV would be less expensive, then, let´s say: Jeremy Irons, Anthony Hopkins or Sean Connery.
For instance, Mira Furlan could fit in this Tax Rules for European Community (for sure she still belong to some Croatian Acting Association).
Jason Carter also could be in (in case the movie has flashbacks such as "In the Beggining") and he is 100% UK actor.
Regards,
CADU
Za_Ha_Dum
Regular
I must disagree in this matter. And the reason is very simple.... It is a matter of SURVIVAL. If a financial executive make very bad decisions and this can cause terrible losts, who do you think it will be fired on the next day??? For this reason, financial people are extreme careful...... And I bet you that after receiving a bunch of our letters protesting for the re-casting decision they will be the first to support us... On the other hand, the people with giant EGOS and pride such as feature film department yuppies will be reluctant saying that a bunch of fanatics know nothing about movie industry....
Regards,
CADU
Joseph DeMartino
Moderator
YES Jan is absolutely sure about this. Jan does not launch major fan campaigns just for the fun of it. Jan also thought "that seems odd" and checked her facts before she first posted this. Jan is aware that what seems sensible to you really has nothing whatsoever to do with what the studios do. Jan would not still be doing this nearly two months later, and after 1,000 objections pretty much identical to yours, if she wasn't sure that what she is saying is accurate based on a source in a position to know. And I and others wouldn't have joined her efforts if we didn't know from sources of our own that what she is saying is correct. It ain't like we're gettin' paid for this stuff, people. (Actually it is cost those of us who are self-employed or do off-the-books work on the side, because it is cutting into our productivity.)
Would anyone else like to ask this question or some close variant of it?
If we weren't damned sure this was real we wouldn't be wasting our time. And if this wasn't real don't you think JM-Effing-S would have told us we were panicking about nothing by now? There is plenty to prevent his commenting on a situation like this if true, but nothing in the world that would stop him from saying something if it were fake. At a bare minimum he could privately e-mail Jan or me or Amy and say, "Stop. Everything's fine and all these stupid B5 bucks are starting to piss Warner Bros. off. They don't like getting beat up for stuff they're not even doing."
Funny how he hasn't done anything, in public or in private, to derail this effort. All he's said publicly is "I would like to comment on this, but I can't."
So can we at least stipulate that this casting thing is real and move on to pointless debates about other aspects of the campaign?
Yes, we know what we're talking about. No, we can't tell you how we know - although frankly by this time I would have thought that most of you could have figured it out for yourselves and understand why neither we nor our sources can publicly identify them. But maybe this crowd isn't as smart as I thought.
The financial people know perfectly well that a project like this probably can't succeed if it only appeals to the established fan base. Hence their desire to do anything that they perceive will increase the film's appeal to non-fans, including cast changes.
Regards,
Joe
Would anyone else like to ask this question or some close variant of it?
If we weren't damned sure this was real we wouldn't be wasting our time. And if this wasn't real don't you think JM-Effing-S would have told us we were panicking about nothing by now? There is plenty to prevent his commenting on a situation like this if true, but nothing in the world that would stop him from saying something if it were fake. At a bare minimum he could privately e-mail Jan or me or Amy and say, "Stop. Everything's fine and all these stupid B5 bucks are starting to piss Warner Bros. off. They don't like getting beat up for stuff they're not even doing."
Funny how he hasn't done anything, in public or in private, to derail this effort. All he's said publicly is "I would like to comment on this, but I can't."
So can we at least stipulate that this casting thing is real and move on to pointless debates about other aspects of the campaign?
Yes, we know what we're talking about. No, we can't tell you how we know - although frankly by this time I would have thought that most of you could have figured it out for yourselves and understand why neither we nor our sources can publicly identify them. But maybe this crowd isn't as smart as I thought.
The financial people know perfectly well that a project like this probably can't succeed if it only appeals to the established fan base. Hence their desire to do anything that they perceive will increase the film's appeal to non-fans, including cast changes.
Regards,
Joe
Les_Greenhalgh
Member
Hmm one of the B5 Actors per chance?
Hmm, I wonder what the money folks think will be more successfull
a) TMOS without JMS and fan support but with a cast of 'names'
b) TMOS with JMS and without 'names'.
Guess we'll find out soon who blinks first, the problem if TMOS goes down the pan then I would imagine so will the new novels and graphic novel and anything else that required TMOS to be made to be viable.
Would not like to be in JMS' shoes at the moment if this is his choice...
regards,
