The Crusade for Crusade...

KoshN · Mar 26, 2002

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by Godkiller:
post your pro crusade messages on the moderated message boards where JMS can see them, let him know of our continuing cause, and rally support for the cause,
SAVE CRUSADE!!!<hr></blockquote>

Not a bad idea. However, I wouldn't send JMS any email, and snail mail to JMS might not be a good idea either.

KoshN · Mar 26, 2002

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by GShans:
I am also looking into some of the old companies that worked on B5, if we want excaliburs and whitestars to look right, we need the people who originally made them
<hr></blockquote>

Uh, this one probably wouldn't bear any fruit. We'd be much better off if the CGI files that Warner Brothers lost, were found. Then they could be just, used, instead of re-created. Re-creation would be a big obstacle, because it would cost a lot of money, and it would never match up with what they had before. It's much better to search for and find the B5/Crusade CGI files. I hate to think that all the files are truly lost forever, and we're back to square 1, and have to re-create everything (except for the stuff they salvaged from the game, and could massage to look better).

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by GShans:
on a side note, I would like to see Crusades Hyperspace stay the same, since it was the original hyperspace in crusade, same with the jump points, if possible <hr></blockquote>

Or at least have those effects closer to what we had in B5 Season 5 and Crusade.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by GShans:
Another thing, i saw a thing on b5tech.com, someone used lightwave to create a jumpgate and did practically a perfect job on all accounts, just saying this since i saw b5lr used maya and the studio that used lightwave closed, so if e can do a great whitestar and jumpgate than why can't JMS find someone who can, it seems that the most of the public likes tho old jumpgates and hyperspace of B5 and Crusade<hr></blockquote>

I think it's safer to assume that most of the public does not like jarring changes if they already liked what went before. However, JMS has said that he likes the new look of hyperspace (like he used in the Rangers pilot) better than B5 Season 5 and Crusade hyperspace. Maybe we'd get used to the new and different look of hyperspace, but I still think the jumppoint colors should more closely match Crusade, if not B5 Season 5. They just need more color to them. You'd think that'd be easy to do.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by GShans:
I received this earlier today from a company i e-mailed and asked if they would be willing to work on crusade if it was ressurected:
My name is Paul (Beigle) Bryant and one of the original Emmy winners for B5. I would be amazed if you could resurrect any of the Crusade shows. We did the original FX for B5 and yes, we set the standard. Yes we would be willing to work on the show if the money was right.<hr></blockquote>

Of course he'd say that. Everybody wants a job. (Hope you got his permission to put his words up here.)

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by GShans:
regarding the b5 universe, anything is possible when there are fans like us <hr></blockquote>

The thing is that we don't want to come off like a tiny group of extremely active and dedicated fans. That makes Sci-Fi think that there's not enough of us to sustain a show.

KoshN · Mar 26, 2002

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by GShans:
if you dont wanna be a part of, shut up and get off this subject. <hr></blockquote>

That attack on drakh was a little uncalled for.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by GShans:
 and i'm trying to find people who have worked on Crusade or B5, and at least have been involved in this show before, i doesn't matter if they worked on Crusade or not, the basic visual effects were practically the same between s1 0f B5 and the 13th episode of Crusade. <hr></blockquote>

Actually, B5 evolved quite a bit over the five years, and that's why I picked the era of CGI to match as B5 Season 5 and Crusade (for the flashy jumppoints). I'd be perfectly happy if we could just start out with this hapy medium. Then effects could change gradually, over the course of Seasons, as they did with B5. When I lool back at B5 Season 1, I think well that's when they were using slower computers and older versions of the software, and they couldn't do as much. No big deal. Then gradually as you watch the Seasons, the CGI evolves, with no real jarring change.

When Crusade started, everybody complained about the flashy jumppoints. Well, we got used to that, but for some reason the look of TLaDiS just bugs me, more than Crusade ever did. The differences between B5 S5/Crusade and TLaDiS are just too jarring. Perhaps these kinks would be worked out in a Rangers series (if we ever get one)

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by GShans:
 We all want the same thing here, and fighting and bickering among each other is not going to help matters any.
It doesn't even seem like you want Crusade to be resurrected, you just want to come here and put down our hopes and efforts, what, do you work for TNT or something, i mean thats the only reason i can think someone here would do that, i have done my homework, and i do know strategy, and i am trying to set everything where i need before we start.<hr></blockquote>

This place is beginning to sound like a bunch of Technomages who've been in close quarters for too long.

I think what we're suffering from is a lack of patience. I'm guilty of that as much (maybe moreso) that the others here. The question is, when does patience begin to look like lack of interest (from Sci-Fi's POV looking at us fans). We don't want to appear agitated and lacking patience (e.g. like "Fen" - those interested in bright shiny objects who soom lose interest and move on), and on the other hand we don't want to look disinterested or that we've lost hope and given up on the idea of new B5 shows and Crusade. We want to strike a balance inbetween, have it be evident that we have not forgotten and that we have staying power.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by GShans:
 As for getting a professional cgi artist to look at it, go ahead, and while you're trying to find one, everyone here should go and have a look,<a target="_blank" href=http://www.b5tech.net/movies/movies.htm>here</a> you need to be running at least mediaplayer 6.4, it's a pretty big file<hr></blockquote>

I will if I ever get to the bottom of this thread. /ubbthreads/images/icons/eek.gif

KoshN · Mar 26, 2002

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by drakh:
To be honest, if Crusade were to come back, I'm certain it would be caused by other factors, and happen whether or not you guys send any letters.

Who says I've given up? <hr></blockquote>

From your comments above, it "sounded like" you have given up, on Crusade at least.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by drakh:
One thing I've learned the hard way from personal experience is that sometimes things suck... hard...
<hr></blockquote>

You'll certainly get no argument from me about that. /ubbthreads/images/icons/frown.gif

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by drakh:
and there's not one damn thing you can do about it.
<hr></blockquote>

Ahhh, there's the part with which I have trouble. The trouble about hope is that it springs eternal.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by drakh:
You can either accept that, and wait for a real opportunity for change, or waste all your energy chasing even the slightest litte hope, so that you're all out of steam should that opportunity come.<hr></blockquote>

How is Sci-Fi to distinguish us (fans) "waiting" from us "disinterested or no longer there (having moved on)"? It looks the same. Either way, there is no pulse, kind of like the sound of a dead world. Any new letters to Sci-Fi or preferrable one page, like I've advocated above, would let Sci-Fi know that there is still fan interest in Crusade. There also may be fan interest in Rangers, but I see Rangers as not very likely right now. I get the feeling Sci-Fi got stung, and is now wary of all new things B5. The rushed production that was TLaDiS may have single-handedly sunk the future prospects of all things B5, and if so, that sucks, really. REALLY hard.

KoshN · Mar 26, 2002

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by GShans:
the Resurrect crusade picture shown above.

save it, open it in paint, strech and skew it until it is exactly 8.0/8.5 in. wide by around 11 in. long (593 pixels wide by 821 pixels long) for those of you who cant open it in paint, it is b/c you saved it as a jpg, you should save it AS a bitmap(bmp) file<hr></blockquote>

I've sent full size JPGs to GShans. I've also been trying to put them up on tripod,co.uk, but it's being really obstinate and I've got to go in 10 minutes (and I still have to set the tap up for 24 tonight!). I'll try again when I get back later tonight.

Sometimes it feels as if I'm pushing rope. /ubbthreads/images/icons/rolleyes.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/rolleyes.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/rolleyes.gif

Lyta · Mar 27, 2002

Originally posted by GShans:
except Drakh, he may know his facts, but if he were to get into the interior, he would probably get tv shut down permanently 

Wow, I really think that was uncalled for. Just a litte bit before this you said, "I tried to make piece" (meaning peace I am sure) but further down you attacked Drakh with the quote above without him even responding to you inbetween. I don't really see you making peace ...

Really, I just wanted to jump in here and break up KoshN's posts a little bit. /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif

GShans, I applaude your efforts but you do have to realize that there have been many fans who have been down this road already. I respect Drakh and his dedication to the B5 universe and I thought he was just trying to be realistic. Perhaps a bit harsh but still sound words from someone who should know what they are talking about.

SavantB5 said:
People who are serious about making things happen don't just write letters. They work from the inside. 

Sure your method is extreme but it also holds a lot of truth as well.

Dulann said:
Really, I think you should be sending letters of support for Rangers.

Lennier said:
Hence I personally believe that currently, "Rangers" deserves more attention and effort than "Crusade". If given the right conditions, "Rangers" can tell the story of "Crusade" or hand over a story ready for a new series, when it ends. But every reminder about "Crusade" is most commendable too. 

I couldn't agree more with the two Minbari. /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif The fact is that a Rangers campaign is -more likely- to be sucessful than a Crusade only campaign. Sure, mention both but the focus should be on Rangers. For more information on the Rangers campaign, go here: http://abyss.hubbe.net/b5/sponsor.html

KoshN said:
The idea is that one page with just two words on it, may make a bit more impact that a 10 or 12 point, six page long letter with very fat paragraphs. 

and later said:
The thing is that we don't want to come off like a tiny group of extremely active and dedicated fans. That makes Sci-Fi think that there's not enough of us to sustain a show. 

Sounds a bit contridictory to me. Personally, I think an image that takes up a whole 8x11 paper screams unprofessional and fanboyish where as a well written, -one or two- page, neatly typed letter would go over far better. *shrugs*

gangster · Mar 27, 2002

Nicely said, and timely.

GShans · Mar 27, 2002

First off, i did try ro make peace with Drakh, he seemed to not even pay attention, this thread is the Crusade for Crusade, if you want to put down our efforts go to another thread, as for going off on Drakh, i said i was sorry, i felt his sarcasm and rudeness to me were uncalled for, but i am willing to overlook it and just walkaway from a verbal rock throwing contest, when i retaliated the first time, it was 4 in the morning, i had just gotten up 5 minutes earlier, still half asleep, and very ticked off when i read his post, i can get mad easily when it concerns something i put my heart and soul into, as far as him responding to me, i sent a couple of private messages, he read them and blew them off, and so the peace negotiations were stalled before they started. i apologize, on record to everyone who was offended by the remarks i made earlier when i was angry.

I do kinda have to agree with lyta about the full page picture, but if you include a well done, professional looking short letter with the picture, it seems to even out.

As KoshN said, we seem to be stuck between looking uninterested and fanatic, we must break out of this, I say look a little fanatic, but throw some professionalism on op of it and it should work out fine, Drakh thinks he is being a realist, but it looks like he is being a real pessimist. when the people send, it shouldn't matter if they send a copy of the picture in the size it is here or maki it fit a page, as long as its got a good and rationale letter with it, it will work

to another point Hope survives, and hope with wisdom can do almost anything, if the two are balanced right.

Crusade is worth more than a simple hand over or a merger with LR, that would be chaos for the cast of the shows, and the storylines.

I just want people who have worked on B5 and/or Crusade before, it just makes sense, and as for the people who have made the whitestar being gone since 1996, okay, the whitestar from ACTA looked better anyway, more organic, anyway, this was just a last resort, seeing if they would be willing to do it if they were needed.

Yes i would like to see the original cgi files found, but if they can't be, we have to have an alternative. I understand anyone who would want a job would say those things, but if we have to restart, i would want someone there who was there when it started, even if it means finding individual people on the streets that originally worked on it, hunting each and everyone of them down and picking them up one by one.

All my thoughts are for the best interest of Crusade, and getting the first season finished in the least, finishing all 5 years in the most.

Again i am sorry for going crazy earlier and going crazy on Drakh, he is a seasoned veteran here, but he seems to lack the optimism to help any on this thread.

GShans · Mar 27, 2002

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by KoshN:
I've sent full size JPGs to GShans. I've also been trying to put them up on tripod,co.uk, but it's being really obstinate <hr></blockquote>

I have made a small website with the page size pictures on it <a target="_blank" href=http://home.attbi.com/~g.shans> here</a> they are in the photos page, enjoy /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

**DONOTDELETE** · Mar 27, 2002

what i propose is to make a new unified effort to Save Crusade. i know just from watching the replies to my original post that many will attempt to either shoot me down or make my cause their own without actually contributing anything to the cause. some here have already tried to shoot down the cause, though all have contributed something to it already, even through criticisms, which only serve to make us more aware of our weaknesses.

to begin i would like to define what SAVE CRUSADE means to me. Save Crusade does not necessarily mean single handedly reviving the series, or forcing the networks to see it our way and bring Crusade back to television, i know that is impractical and quite unlikely in the real world. what Save Crusade does mean to me is keeping the HOPE of a continued Crusade series alive. In some, indeed many, that hope seems to have died. i feel that only by keeping that hope alive and making our presence known to all parties involved, and making sure that they continue to see us regularly as a presence, that only in this way can we have even a chance of bringing back Crusade. This is the way i see it.

Second, i see some of the arguments, the fights and the bickering that continues on these boards and it only confirms to me that hope is fading. i feel that if everyone would unite under a single cause, namely returning Crusade to its place on television, that that hope may be preserved. and who knows, perhaps given time we may acheive some small victory.

i for one will be sending email, sending hand writen letters and sending my printout copies of the Resurrect CRUSADE image previously posted to all parties i feel are involved and may take notice, or have some influence over the final fate of this series. i would strongly urge everyone here to also post their opinions on the moderated message boards for JMS to read. Crusade was HIS baby, and i am sure that if we go about this correctly it would really touch him to know that we all still care about Crusade, even if HE has given up or has other plans for the Crusade story. i would also encourage everyone to contact Bony Hammer at Scifi and to contact anyone and everyone at WB who may be able or willing (given the right incentives) to help in this cause.

i do not encourage anyone to postmark their letters for April 1st, that is merely the date i and Gshans picked to begin sending, not the date of some mass petition to the powers that be. if everyone sends everything on April 1st through-oh, lets say the 15th, im sure we will be noticed. and when we have run out of people to send to we will surely be written off and forgotten. what i propose is a continuous petition, one dragged out over a long period of time. when one contact, say Bony Hammer or WB or JMS replies to your inquiry, reply right back!!!

what i propose nothing more, and nothing less, than keeping the lines of communication open. if we all were to do this, if only for a little while, i think we could make a difference, one way or another. i for one will be sending on april 1st, who else is with me?

SAVE CRUSADE!!!

GShans · Mar 27, 2002

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by Godkiller:
 i for one will be sending on april 1st, who else is with me?
SAVE CRUSADE!!!<hr></blockquote>

starting April 2nd, i'm in, I'm with KoshN for avoiding April 1st at all costs, and no matter when everyone else stops, I will continue to hope and dream and fight (not literally) for Crusade's Resurrection. I know it in my heart, my soul, that Crusade is meant to be on air, to be completed, and one day, given enough demand for the show, and the cgi files found, Crusade will be resurrected, and my job here will be done.

hypatia · Mar 27, 2002

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by GShans

oes anyone know how to get a hold of JMS personally?<hr></blockquote>

He gives his email address out on his moderated group's site. I still think he's crazy for doing so! Do you want me to go look it up for you? I'd never email him, and he's so busy right now as well as being injured. (Wouldn't want to risk getting him mad! /ubbthreads/images/icons/frown.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/rolleyes.gif ).

Besides, I think JMS is all for a Crusade revival. It's selling the money men at the networks where we keep getting into trouble! /ubbthreads/images/icons/mad.gif

hypatia · Mar 27, 2002

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by SavantB5:

If you fit my definition of "serious", you'd pick up your lives--whatever they are--and go get a job at either Warner Brothers or the SciFi Channel.
<hr></blockquote>

I realize, of course, that you are joking. Making fun of us, actually, but that's beside the point. Letter-writing has been known to make a marginal difference in programming, we know that from 'history'.

What worries me is that shows saved through letter-writing campaigns usually get cancelled in another season anyway, don't they? /ubbthreads/images/icons/frown.gif

I honestly think that letter-writing would help Rangers more than Crusade at this point. JMS and Sci-Fi went with a Rangers pilot for a reason. If they didn't trust a ressurected Crusade to pull in the desired ratings way back when (when B5 rights and Crusade rights came to the Sci-Fi channel), what new motivation could we offer them now that would radically change the situation?

I honestly don't know. I just hope Jerimiah and comic books aren't the only way we'll have soon to enjoy JMS's work. /ubbthreads/images/icons/frown.gif

KoshN · Mar 27, 2002

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by Lyta:
Really, I just wanted to jump in here and break up KoshN's posts a little bit. /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif
<hr></blockquote>

*snicker* Hey, my windows of opportunity for reply yesterday were concentrated into a couple of blocks of time, just a couple of hours long. I had to get it all in when I could. /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by Lyta:
SavantB5 said:
People who are serious about making things happen don't just write letters. They work from the inside.

Sure your method is extreme but it also holds a lot of truth as well.
<hr></blockquote>

More like EXTREME

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by Lyta:

Dulann said:
Really, I think you should be sending letters of support for Rangers.

Lennier said:
Hence I personally believe that currently, "Rangers" deserves more attention and effort than "Crusade". If given the right conditions, "Rangers" can tell the story of "Crusade" or hand over a story ready for a new series, when it ends. But every reminder about "Crusade" is most commendable too.

I couldn't agree more with the two Minbari. /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif The fact is that a Rangers campaign is -more likely- to be sucessful than a Crusade only campaign. Sure, mention both but the focus should be on Rangers. For more information on the Rangers campaign, go here: http://abyss.hubbe.net/b5/sponsor.html
<hr></blockquote>

It'd help if any of us had even one tiny bit of information as to which way Sci-Fi is [b[currently[/b] leaning with regard to Rangers. If they're leaning toward doing Rangers, then your ideas of supporting Rangers have merit. If they're leaning away from doing Rangers, I'd say to support Crusade.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by Lyta:

KoshN said:
The idea is that one page with just two words on it, may make a bit more impact that a 10 or 12 point, six page long letter with very fat paragraphs.

and later said:
The thing is that we don't want to come off like a tiny group of extremely active and dedicated fans. That makes Sci-Fi think that there's not enough of us to sustain a show.

Sounds a bit contridictory to me. Personally, I think an image that takes up a whole 8x11 paper screams unprofessional and fanboyish where as a well written, -one or two- page, neatly typed letter would go over far better. *shrugs* <hr></blockquote>

Not necessarily. The idea is that we could probably get more than just a tiny group to send in one page that they could just download and print. Getting people off their dead butts to do anything is difficult, so the less effort the better, if you want a large number of pieces if mail to flood Sci-Fi. It'd also have more impact if what Sci-Fi got was simple, concise, bold and consistent, from a large number of people all around the same time in the mail (snail mail).

Nobody at Sci-Fi is even going to read a two-page letter. We're damn lucky if we can get them to read a half-page letter. The more words that are in the letter, the greater that chance that they won't read it at all, and the greater the chance that somebody is going to say something stupid. In the pictures I made (one has the logo in color), there are no exclaimation points, and there's only two words. Anybody opening that envelope cannot help but get the message. It's about as brief as possible, and includes a logo, not just plain text, so it obviously took some work to create (Trust me, it did.). If a large number of us send Sci-Fi this one page, all mailed on April 2nd, they should be flooded with them at about the same time. It should let them know that there is an audience, that we are not a tiny group of fanatics, that we are organized, and that we haven't given up on Crusade.

KoshN · Mar 27, 2002

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Originally posted by Godkiller:
Bony Hammer<hr></blockquote>

*cough* Bonnie *cough*

Don't misspell her name on the letter. /ubbthreads/images/icons/eek.gif

GShans · Mar 28, 2002

Quick and Consice, to the point, and a million copies, no way to beat that, throw in one to three, actual letters with this, sent by godkiller, KoshN, and myself, they should be read, and be understood who exactly put this together (gk, seconded by KN and me), and if someone gets mad, they will come after us, we can handle it, and wont give up or lose hope, or ever stop trying.

The adresses are coming April 29th, this friday, Thursday night(3-4am) grab your picture and print it out, go <a target="_blank" href=http://home.attbi.com/~g.shans/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html> here</a>

If you want to go really fanatical, send one a day from April 2nd to April 15th /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

GShans · Mar 29, 2002

As I said, here are the addresses for mailing the letters and/or the pictures:

(SCI-FI: letters and pictures)
Ms. Bonnie Hammer
President
Sci-Fi Channel
1230 Avenue of the Americas
New York, NY 10020-1513

(don't send pictures here, only letters, there is already a letter about crusade online <a target="_blank" href=http://www.scifi.com/sfw/current/letters.html> their</a>, once there, scroll down you will see it)
Science Fiction Weekly
28501 Woodview Drive
Damascus, MD 20872

addresses also posted on <a target="_blank" href=http://home.attbi.com/~g.shans> my site</a> with the pictures.

Remember April 2nd and SAVE CRUSADE

**DONOTDELETE** · Mar 29, 2002

I will send them one of those Resurrect Crusade pages! I too LOVE the 13 eps that did air. And have been hoping that the show would come back. I will post something about this on In Starlight later today.
There is one particular project that JMS has been working on for awhile that he simply calls 'Polaris.' Now, I was thinking wouldn't it be awesome if this was a code name for Crusade? Its a long shot, but would be great!

invalensname

GShans · Mar 30, 2002

All I can find on POLARIS is that it is a NEW show for Sci-FI, and he cannot disclose any info on it besides the fact that the first 2 scripts are done for it.

Highly unlikely that it has anything to do with Crusade, I think if he were working on anything ligit for Crusade, He would come out and say it

hypatia · Mar 30, 2002

Gshans, I just got this from the moderated group's website. Not much info, but here it is:

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>>Hey, whatever happened to the idea of writing a B5 one-shot for Wildstorm?

There should be something announced about that shortly.

>And also, what about your show-in-development for Sci-Fi, Polaris?

Currently revising the scripts, but delayed by the hand problem which slows me
down a lot.

>And will
>your comic anthology Dream Police ever happen?

Plans are for Top Cow to do it as a one-shot; DP was never itself planned as an
anthology, but rather one issue *in* that anthology.

jms
<hr></blockquote>

The Crusade for Crusade...

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