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NEWS WB not renewing any B5 product licenses(txt)

  • Thread starter **DONOTDELETE**
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**DONOTDELETE**

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I dont know what JMS has to say about this BUT i was over at Precedences home page www.Eternity.com who made the Babylon 5 Card Game. When they went to renew there contract recently the got a response of "Warner Brothers has responded that they are not renewing ANY Babylon 5 licenses at this time". The full thing is on precedences site

Capt

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DS9 and B5. Who would have thought 2 of my fav shows would take place on stations in the middle of nowhere :)
 
What?!
shocked.gif


Here we have been seeing licences drop left and right because of TNT's misstreatment of the show, and now that the show is doing well again, WB is dropping them all, starting with one of the few that remaind faithful?
shocked.gif


What on Earth is going on?
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There has to be some mistake...
 
Go figure.

It may be the typical suit logic (meaning bureaucratic reasons) but it might also have a meaning... and I'm not familiar enough with this field to say what I guess... although I have some guesses.
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Canned flarn is a sacrilege.
 
I know that SPACE in Canada has said that they could not get the rights to show repeats of Crusade and that the final run of B5 would be finished at the end of July and they could not show it any more. Also they cannot get permission to show any of the movies again. So there must be some reasoning at WB. Are they involved in B5LR? If so, maybe they are trying to clear everything B5 out of the way before it hits the screen.
crazy.gif


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The only thing i can take a wild guess on is that Sci-Fi channel or something is trying to buy the show away from WB so they arent doing licenses because it would be very complicated. Other then that i have no idea

capt

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DS9 and B5. Who would have thought 2 of my fav shows would take place on stations in the middle of nowhere :)
 
1) Merchandising licenses and broadcasting agreements are two completely different things, handled by different parts of Warner Bros. The one has nothing to do with the other.

2) TNT is a U.S. cable network that had an exclusive deal to air the B5 reruns in the U.S. until last year, and which had the broadcast rights to Crusade in the U.S. only until late 1999. They do not and never have owned either show, and they should have no power to determine what happens with them in other countries. (Although it is possible that as the originating network they had some kind of influence before the rights reverted to Warner Bros. after they showed the 13 episodes once.) The shows are owned by Warner Bros. Anyone telling you any different is either grossly misinformed or lying.

3) Not renewing the merchandising licenses at this time makes perfect business sense.

B5 has been out of production for two years now. During 1999-2000 TNT's punative scheduling of the show (payback for Crusade) drove awareness of and interest in the show to its lowest ebb. Merchandising licenses that expired at that point were not renewed by the licensees because they saw a shrinking market. Warner Home Video couldn't make a go of a VHS release of the series, the Fan Club and B5Magazine folded, it was not a good time for the series.

Now that the show is back in daily reruns on Sci-Fi and attracting new viewers, things are on the upswing again. The B5 name is beginning to look valuable to merchandisers. But this is just the beginning. Warner Bros. is looking forward to the DVD release, the Rangers movie and a possible new series. Frankly they would be idiots to renew existing licenses eight months or a year before the publicity bonanza that a new series would bring them.

License agreements with an option to renew generally state the terms of renewal in the original contract, and give both parties the option to renew within a give time of the expiration date. Once that passes, the studio is free to put the license for a given product out for bid. Why would Warner Bros. want to renew agreements based on the value of the show name several years ago when they expect that value to increase next year?

With a new series on the air merchandisers are likely to be lining up to turn out B5 products. That's the time to negotiate, not when your show has barely crawled back into the public spotlight.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>I contacted Channel 4 in the UK and they told me that they are unable to show any new Babylon 5 programmes at the present time.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hardly surprising given that there aren't any new Babylon 5 programs "at the present time." They're still shooting Rangers and Warner Bros. won't start marketing that overseas for awhile.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>TNT will not allow them to reshow Crusade and all other Babylon 5 episodes has been restricted to only one episode a month if they need to fill gaps in the schedules.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

See above re: TNT and Crusade. I have no idea what the rest of this is supposed to mean, or who placed those "restrictions" on their airing the B5 reruns. Sounds more like an in-house decision than anything that would be part of a normal broadcast contract. Warner Bros. only gets paid their fees when a show is actually shown. It makes no economic sense to tell a station not to air them. Odds are that Channel 4 thinks the per-broadcast fee they're paying for B5 is too high, so they don't run it unless they're caught with a whole in their schedule.

I must say that I only understand the broad generalities of how TV contracts work in the U.S., from reading public material on the subject, and none at all on overseas deals. But I do know how various kinds of business contracts work in other industries, and this just sounds like doubletalk to me. I have a feeling that Channel 4 was just fobbing you off with a plausible sounding explanation because whoever you talked to either didn't know the real answer or didn't want to give it to you.

From the newsgroup, May 21st 2001:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>(Space in Canada told the writer that) (t)he owners of CRUSADE pulled the plug on the production and will not allow broadcasters that have previously aired the series, the right to broadcast it a second time. However, the Sci-Fi Channel in the U.S. is able to air it because it is their first broadcast of the series.

Is this really true? Or is there some corporate bafflegab going on? Why would Crusade not be rerunnable, whereas Babylon 5 is?

Isn't it Warner Brothers that owns the rights to both series?


Yeah, so to be honest, that sounds a bit fishy to me. -- jms<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It almost sounds like this is something that TNT did, and was able to do, back in 1999 when they were still involved in the production and still had some clout. It is possible that neither Space in Canada nor Channel 4 in the U.K. realizes that TNT is out of the picture and that their "edict" is no longer in force. (Or it could be that both are counting on us not knowing these things and using TNT as a convenient excuse for not running a show they don't feel like running.
smile.gif
)

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division

joseph-demartino@att.net
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino:
3) Not renewing the merchandising licenses at this time makes perfect business sense.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Damn capitalism
frown.gif


B5 CCG is one of the most successful B5 merchanice. They (Precedence) wanted to produce new expansion based on the new movie.

Sigma (who is regular B5 CCG player)


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www.zone.ee/b5project
 
Well JMS just responded to my post on the newsgroup and said

"There's a difference between not renewing a license and dropping a license. My
suspicion is that they will want to clean the slate in preparation for
Rangers...up until now, everybody's been operating off the license agreements
made during and right after B5...and deals made after B5 were a bit more
generous to the retailers than those made during B5. But with the new project
going ahead, I suspect they'll want to let the current deals expire in
preparation for the new ones under the new title so they can make better deals
(read better as more beneficial to WB).

jms"

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DS9 and B5. Who would have thought 2 of my fav shows would take place on stations in the middle of nowhere :)
 
What is disturbing is that according to the Precedence press release at http://www.isnnews.net/ WB didn't just cancel the contract, they issued a cease and desist order against them, and ordered all stock to be destroyed, including the brand new expansion set. That doesn't sound like something they would do if they planned to renegotiate the contract. Maybe Precedence violated its contract somehow? I'm just praying they don't do the same to Agents of Gaming and their systems. Precedence has other products to keep it afloat, AoG is almost exclusively B5 and a similar approach would totally ruin them.

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I wouldn't worry about that. I'm sure that when the new movie has aired and possibly gone to series then WB will re-negiotiate a new contract with Precedence so the new expansion can continue. They'd want to do this for all the reasons that Joe mentioned above. The best thing that can be done to make sure all of that happens is to get as many people as you can find watching the B5:LR movie when it airs so the ratings reflect the popularity of B5.

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WombatControl
http://www.flarn.com/wombatcontrol/
"Who let the spoo out? Sigh sigh sigh sigh sigh..."
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Damn capitalism
frown.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now, now. Capitalism is a GOOD thing. If it weren't for capitalism we would be watching earnest documentaries about grain harvests on TV every night instead of terrific shows like Babylon 5.
smile.gif


Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division

joseph-demartino@att.net
 
Come on!!
We all know that these are strategically planned moves on the part of WB to make way for the All B5 Channel.

All B5
All the time!!

okay... I can dream can't I???

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Teeps rule; Mundanes get spaced


Revere the Founders
Obey the Vorta
And don't poke the Jem'Hadar
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>WB didn't just cancel the contract, they issued a cease and desist order against them, and ordered all stock to be destroyed, including the brand new expansion set.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sounds like the old contract might have expired already and the company had produced the expansion set on the assumption that it would be renewed. If that's the case then Warner Bros. has every right to require that they stop selling B5 product immediately and that they destroy existing stocks. If they license a new company to do a similar game they can't very well have the original dumping its remaining stock on the market at cut-rate prices.

Again, none of this sounds especially sinister to me (or to JMS, apparently.) WB is simply positioning itself to maximize its profits on B5 when the time is right. If I were a stockholder in AOL/Time-Warner that's exactly what I'd want them to do. In the final analysis, the company exists to make money for its stockholders - the people who own it. It is not a charitable instituion set up to make fans happy.
smile.gif


Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division

joseph-demartino@att.net
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>BTW, doesn't Warner now own TNT? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No. For many years both the various Warner Bros. companies (Warner Bros. Studios, Domestic Television, International Television, Home Video - all of which operate independently of one another) and Turner Broadcasting (TNT, TBS) were owned by the same corporate parent, a separate company yet again called Time-Warner. (Time as in Time Magazine.) Trust me, this is nothing at all like Warner Bros. owning TNT. There is way too much corporate insulation between them.

I seriously doubt that anyone from TNT has any "influence" at any division of Warner Bros., given that TNT ripped WBDT off to the tune of about 10 million dollars when they pulled the plug on Crusade after only 13 or 22 contracted episodes had been completed. They gambled, rightly, that T-W corporate would not want to see one of its companies suing another since, in real dollar terms, it would end up paying the lawyers on both sides. (And, at the end of the day, end up paying any settlement to itself.
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)

The recent change is that America On-Line bought Time-Warner, forming AOL/Time-Warner (I'm not sure that the deal has been fully consummated as yet, and they may still be waiting for final regulartory approval of the whole thing. As soon as they announced the planned merger last year attorneys for their competitors and the Department of Justice started burning the midnight oil preparing possible anti-trust complaints against the behemonth.) That merger had essentially no effect on the realtionship between TNT and Warner Bros. Televison, such as it is, nor that with whichever part of Warner Bros. controls merchandising for TV shows.

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division

joseph-demartino@att.net
 
Is there anything that Joseph DeMartino doesn't know?? And I mean that in the best possible way.
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Dreg: "Most beauteous and supremely magnificent one, this dark spell I hold in my worthless and scabby hand is our gift to you, most tingly and wonderful Glorificus..."
Glory: "Please, call me Glory. And get up, looking at you is hurting my neck."
Dreg: "Forgive me, shiny special one. I beg of you to rip out my inadequate tongue."
Glory: "Gimme."
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> Is there anything that Joseph DeMartino doesn't know?? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No.

Way I figure, he must have some great hook-up with Booji or something.
shocked.gif


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Sheridan: Are you trying to cheer me up?
Ivanova: No sir, wouldn't dream of it.
Sheridan: Good, I hate being cheered up. It's depressing.
Ivanova: So in that case we're all going to die horrible, painful, lingering deaths.
Sheridan: Thank you, I feel so much better now.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AntonyF:
Is there anything that Joseph DeMartino doesn't know??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I could point to several threads over on the moderated group...
 

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