JMS signed on to a new ST series??

[vacantlook]

Re: JMS: It\'s a Marvel series.

that doesn't make up for destroying whole planets (As a weapons test!)

Vader wasn't all that interested in the Death Star. The test was carried out under Tarkin. But still, yes, Anakin did some horrible things throughout his life.

I do not think he is redeemed at the end of Episode 6.

Do you think it was even possible for him to be redeemed? If so, what would it have taken if giving up his life to save that of another wouldn't do it?

 

[hypatia]

Re: JMS: It\'s a Marvel series.

Good question, VL, because it hits at the heart of absolution of one's sins.

If I were to murder every person on a planet, plus many, many more, then decide just before my son was killed to save him, have I really redeemed myself?

It sounds a bit too damned self-serving to be a "sacrifice", doesn't it? If not, then it's a pretty good deal, spirituality-wise. I must sign up in that club and start having my fun... :devil:

 

[Sinclair]

Re: JMS: It\'s a Marvel series.

If I were to murder every person on a planet...

Actually, Vader didn't really have anything to do with that other than being there at the time. Tarkin was the one that made the decision to destroy Alderaan.

 

[KoshFan]

Re: JMS: It\'s a Marvel series.

That may not have been the only planet destroyed or brutalized by the Empire, though... and had Vader wished to, he could have stopped the attack on Alderaan. He did not. Guilt not only by association but by inaction.

 

[hypatia]

Re: JMS: It\'s a Marvel series.

Then I'll rephrase my question and ask it again. You won't dodge the real point that easily.

Because that is the nature of what happened with Vader. He causes fathoms of misery, in the end decides to save his own son (a rather self-serving kind of pennance, wouldn't you say?), and that provides him absolution.

What do you think?

 

[channe]

Re: JMS: It\'s a Marvel series.

It's not so much absolution as it is returning balance to the Force: yes, he saves his son in the process, but throwing the Emperor down the hole and dying shortly afterward fulfills the prophecy everyone's been talking about since Episode 1.

But that's only if you take the first three as canon.

 

[A_M_Swallow]

Re: JMS: It\'s a Marvel series.

There is an alternative way of looking at Vader's actions. He kill his rivals and his son's rivals. There is nothing unusual about a bad guy special casing his own family. Look at Saddam and a few other dictators.

 

[fisheggs]

Re: JMS: It\'s a Marvel series.

There is an alternative way of looking at Vader's actions. He kill his rivals and his son's rivals. There is nothing unusual about a bad guy special casing his own family. Look at Saddam and a few other dictators.

There is also another way to look at the whole thing, someone here is a Sith.


Look at the way this story/ movie has permeated damn near every thread. (except Bableon, NOBODY could control Bableon! ) BTW, when "the Force-choke General" told Vader he was the last of a dying religeon, was he refering to Sith or Jedi? Did anyone beside the obvious suspects know/not know that the Emporer was Sith Master?


If Clones/ clone tech were available, why didn't the Emperor just clone Anakin and raise all the brats to his specifications, pitting them against each other to create the strongest of the strong? How much truth is there in the story of extended life? Could a Sith Master live "forever"? As long as they weren't killed by their apprentices. Does a Master ever "plan" for his death since there is only one, now.?

 

[Sinclair]

Re: JMS: It\'s a Marvel series.

That may not have been the only planet destroyed or brutalized by the Empire...

I agree, it may not have been, but to the average moviegoer they don't know anything about the extended universe. I don't know much about it. But we both know hypatia was referring to the destruction of Alderaan.

and had Vader wished to, he could have stopped the attack on Alderaan

I doubt it as he didn't really have much authority on the Death Star, as it was Tarkin's baby, not that he really cared anyway. It seemed that Tarkin only answered to the Emperor. Had they been on a Star Destroyer, that may have been a different story.

 

[hypatia]

Re: JMS: It\'s a Marvel series.

You're still not answering the question, Sinclair.

What do you think?

 

[Sinclair]

Re: JMS: It\'s a Marvel series.

No, I don't think he redeemed himself. He did far too much to just suddenly do one good thing to make up for everything.

 

[Pobman]

Re: JMS: It\'s a Marvel series.

No, I don't think he redeemed himself. He did far too much to just suddenly do one good thing to make up for everything.

Yup, like slaughtering those children who trusted him (and probably looked up to him)

 

[KoshFan]

Re: JMS: It\'s a Marvel series.

On the other hand... was it just one thing? He killed the Emperor, and died in the process. Who's the Empire's number-three man? Is there one? It's strongly implied that the Empire is going to fall apart as a result of this. So if you look at it that way, Vader destroys the Empire he helped to create.

But even viewed that way, I'd say he hasn't "balanced out" what he's done in the past, nor could anyone.

Here's the deal, though: from a Christian standpoint -- which I know isn't necessarily relevant here -- you don't try to "balance things out" because you can't. Instead you do the best you can and you're forgiven the rest. That's what redemption is to Christians: God saying, "Y'know, you've been a real bastard, but your heart's in the right place and I forgive you. You're in."

 

[deaded]

Re: JMS: It\'s a Marvel series.

that doesn't make up for destroying whole planets (As a weapons test!)

Vader wasn't all that interested in the Death Star. The test was carried out under Tarkin. But still, yes, Anakin did some horrible things throughout his life.

I do not think he is redeemed at the end of Episode 6.

Do you think it was even possible for him to be redeemed? If so, what would it have taken if giving up his life to save that of another wouldn't do it?

(sorry for the late reply, I was on vacation)

I agree with the majority here. It is not possible for him to be redeemed. Giving up your life to save your son is good, but how many sons and daughters has he murdered with less than a thought? I don’t remember how many people were on Alderaan or how many Jedi (his friends) there were but it was a lot.

I doubt it as he didn't really have much authority on the Death Star, as it was Tarkin's baby, not that he really cared anyway. It seemed that Tarkin only answered to the Emperor. Had they been on a Star Destroyer, that may have been a different story

Really? I thought that he was there as the Emperor’s emissary.

 

[hypatia]

Re: JMS: It\'s a Marvel series.

Quite frankly, I think the end was just an attempt to wrap things up quickly. I find it interesting that some seem to be arguing that Vader didn't really do all that much bad, after all.

I'd be more willing to buy that Vader somehow freed himself and with his powers he managed to get where the others were once he was unfettered with the Emporer's influence.

Well, for better or worse, with and without its corny aspects, the saga is over.

 

[B5_Obsessed]

Re: JMS: It\'s a Marvel series.

I always marvel at the concept of Tarkin's order. There was a distinguished Brit who could destroy a planet like he was ordering up a plate of scones from room service.

Jeez, Tarkin. You don't think that's too harsh?

No evil laugh. No ham acting. No vein-busting facial contortions. None of what made Grievious a cartoonish buffoon. Tarkin was ALL business and you could understand why the Emperor gave him the job.

In an odd contrast, Vader was a man trapped in the body of a machine, but Tarkin was like a cold, calculating machine buried inside a perfectly ordinary man.

 

[KoshFan]

Re: JMS: It\'s a Marvel series.

Tarkin was classic "banality of evil."

 

[Sinclair]

Re: JMS: It\'s a Marvel series.

Tarkin is definitely underrated when it comes to some of the greatest villians. He doesn't wear the imposing suit like Vader. He doesn't have some battle scar on his face from some battle fought years before. He's just chilling and doesn't hesitate to make decisions that could forever alter things such as destroying Alderaan. How many other villians have destroyed an entire planet? I'm willing to wager not too many.

 

[Jade Jaguar]

Re: JMS: It\'s a Marvel series.

Galactus eats them for breakfast.
Tarkin has the cold, unemotional evil of a bureaucrat. The commonplace reality of it makes it all the more frightening.

 

[Sinclair]

Re: JMS: It\'s a Marvel series.

Galactus eats them for breakfast.

You have me there.

I guess I should have been more specific though. I was talking about movie villians. I personally can't think of any villian that's destroyed an entire planet, but then again I haven't seen every movie ever made.