B5LR put back, again

KoshN · Nov 3, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by AntonyF:
Why didn't they pick up Crusade? Well, can you blame them?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes. Definitely!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by AntonyF:
If SCI FI want a B5 series, they want their own series--not some cast off. And that's what Crusade would be, second hand goods to be honest.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If those were Sci-Fi's reasons,... well, I can't say what I think about those reasons because then I'd be insulting you.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by AntonyF:
KoshN, you push my limits and piss me off, you really do.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Likewise.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by AntonyF:
Not content with your saber rattling in the other thread(s), you now have to back track and start having a go at my other news items.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They were just examples of the continuing litany of bad news in headlines.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by AntonyF:
How do you suggest I rewrite the news item on Ain't it Cool News's review? Perhaps something like this is more to your liking:

"Great news! B5LR gets really bad review at AICN! So bad in fact, only a few of us sad B5 fans will watch it. At least it will remain ours, and not be contaminated by non-B5 fans. A series might not happen, but well... wah hey!"
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, that one you couldn't do anything about. You could have done something about the "10/29/01 US B5LR air date put back--again Telemovie now airing later in January" one.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by AntonyF:
I actually have some good stuff to post soon, some more upbeat stuff. Original content, more about the production of the telemovie.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Upbeat stuff? It's a miracle.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by AntonyF:
But people like you can't wait can you? There's been a couple of bad reviews, but it's all panic stations for you. Instead of just saying "Well, that's life, we'll ride it out, we'll be over this soon."
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So, by asking that headlines not be inflamatory and negative when they don't have to be, it's all panic stations for me? I'm not the one ranting here. Sometimes, a headline can be nothing but negative and inflamatory (like the 2nd AICN Review Headline), but sometimes, it's possible to put a less negative spin on things. It'd be nice, just for the change of pace, to see something less negative.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by AntonyF:
Maybe I shouldn't even bother posting stuff, as it'll be too negative and you've known it all for months.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You were in on the thread where the Jan. 19th date was discussed as having been revealed at Worldcon (which ran Thursday 30 August - Monday 3 September 2001). It was revealed by ala on 09/25/2001. The news article was dated 10/29/2001.

------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

channe · Nov 3, 2001

KoshN, "B5LR airdate put back -- again" is a simple statement of fact that happens to have negative connotations. It's FACT. Not opinion.

------------------
Channe, the next JMS
--
Gatsby believed in the green light, the orgiastic future that year by year recedes before us. It eluded us then, but that's no matter - tomorrow we will run faster, stretch out our arms farther... and one fine morning - so we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.
-f. scott fitzgerald

KoshN · Nov 3, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by BlackStar:
Too much worry for me.

I need Prozac, we all need Prozac!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

...or less caffeine.

Maybe I need to lay off of the Coke Classic, Pepsi Twist, and Toasted Almond coffee? Had too much of all three today.

What we really need is more of your wonderful Crusade fanfic. Something's got to tide me over 'till I can get my hands on the third Technomage book.

Sunday, with any luck, I'll be getting Crusade screen captures from my SVHS SP tapes. Then, I'll make some really cool avatars.

------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel. http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited November 02, 2001).]

AntonyF · Nov 3, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by KoshN:
If those were Sci-Fi's reasons,... well, I can't say what I think about those reasons because then I'd be insulting you.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And that is a non sequitur. But it's pretty obvious really, and is no detriment to Crusade. In a similar sort of vein it's like UPN and Buffy. They loved the events in the season five finale because they saw the show as being reborn on their channel, and it will then be their program. These channels want to look like they own their programs.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by KoshN:
Likewise.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But the difference is you are here as my guest--not the other way around.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by KoshN:
They were just examples of the continuing litany of bad news in headlines.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Continuing litany. *LOL* I thought you were a drama queen, but that proves it. War is bad news, people dying is bad news, B5LR being cancelled would be bad news. The air date being postponed and a bad review are not bad news. The latter is just an annoyance at best, the former in some ways is good news becuase it means that the telemovie is getting the best exposure possible.

So taking it down to the negative review, that one item is "a litany of bad news". Perhaps you'd rather not me report on it? And that would be bias, which is in no one's best interests. The bad reviews will be given news items, and so will the good. That's the way it works.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by KoshN:
Well, that one you couldn't do anything about. You could have done something about the "10/29/01 US B5LR air date put back--again Telemovie now airing later in January" one.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're like a record with a scratch, over and over and over. Repeating it doesn't make the headline change. Some of the content will be changed today in that article, but that's because I've spoken to someone who a) has valid comments b) knows how to speak to someone properly.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by KoshN:
Upbeat stuff? It's a miracle.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah, but I really don't want a "litany of positive stuff" after that one negative review. I might just go hunt for more negative stuff. But what annoys me is that I can't block you from the website. People like you, unappreciative whiners, don't even DESERVE to see the great content that's coming.

KoshN, he who wants to live in the all-positive one-sided-news world. It don't work like that.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by channe:
KoshN, "B5LR airdate put back -- again" is a simple statement of fact that happens to have negative connotations. It's FACT. Not opinion.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly Channe. And even the negative review article is a statment, more than anything. I read the review trying to see if I could focus on the good comments, but that review was in essence a negative one. To try and twist what it was portraying would have been pretty impossible, and misleading.

------------------
"You're such a gentleman. Too bad I'm not a lady." - Max, Dark Angel

"X5-599. I've got a heart for you." - Zack, Dark Angel

[This message has been edited by AntonyF (edited November 03, 2001).]

KoshN · Nov 3, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Originally posted by KoshN:
If those were Sci-Fi's reasons,... well, I can't say what I think about those reasons because then I'd be insulting you.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by AntonyF:
And that is a non sequitur.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not true. You don't take well to criticism, even kid-glove criticism that is intended to be constructive. You agree with Sci-Fi. Any attack on their reasoning would therefore be an attack on your reasoning. Then, you'd just go off on another rant. I wanted to avoid that.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Originally posted by KoshN:
Likewise.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by AntonyF:
But the difference is you are here as my guest--not the other way around.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, the difference is that I can engage in a conversation without labeling/name calling. Exhibit A follows.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Originally posted by KoshN:
They were just examples of the continuing litany of bad news in headlines.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by AntonyF:
Continuing litany. *LOL* I thought you were a drama queen, but that proves it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exhibit A.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by AntonyF:
War is bad news, people dying is bad news, B5LR being cancelled would be bad news. The air date being postponed and a bad review are not bad news. The latter is just an annoyance at best, the former in some ways is good news becuase it means that the telemovie is getting the best exposure possible.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So only your idea of what's bad news is all that counts? I agree that postponing an air date may not necessarily be bad news, but it does carry that perception, and in the TV business, as well as a lot of other businesses, perception is everything, it influences and sometimes becomes reality, and you really have to watch what you say.

So a bad review is not bad news? I suppose actors, producers, writers and directors must then seek out and treasure bad reviews. Is a bad review not a form of rejection? I thought that was usually viewed as a "negative" thing. Yes, I know, even bad reviews can be turned into positive things, provided the criticism is constructive, and the reviewee doesn't react in a 100% reflexive, defensive way, and looks upon it as an opportunity to improve. Still, a bad review is usually viewed as a negative thing.

Have there been any "good" reviews of TLaDiS?

Since SiL aired, how much "good news" have we had? That's what I call a litany of bad news sprinkled with a few truly bright spots (the trilogies, and Sci-Fi finally getting B5 and Crusade), and false starts (initially look like good news/gets your hopes up/dies; e.g. Crusade and the morons from TNT, the Sierra game being scuttled, the short stories followed by Amazing Stories going under, the short stories followed by Babylon 5/Crusade magazine going under, etc.).

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by AntonyF:
So taking it down to the negative review, that one item is "a litany of bad news". Perhaps you'd rather not me report on it? And that would be bias, which is in no one's best interests. The bad reviews will be given news items, and so will the good. That's the way it works.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not just one negative review. We've had the first AICN review, which people view as sort-of-positive, but don't seem to put much faith in the reviewer. Then we have the negative reviews by Chris Pike, Glenn Oliver, and Tobias Clutch.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Originally posted by KoshN:
Well, that one you couldn't do anything about (the 2nd AICN review). You could have done something about the "10/29/01 US B5LR air date put back--again Telemovie now airing later in January" one.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by AntonyF:
You're like a record with a scratch, over and over and over. Repeating it doesn't make the headline change. Some of the content will be changed today in that article,
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sometimes repeating a statement is necessary to be heard and understood. Unfortunately, that has not been the case here, and it's all been for naught.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by AntonyF:
...but that's because I've spoken to someone who a) has valid comments b) knows how to speak to someone properly.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The irony here is truly astounding.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Originally posted by KoshN:Upbeat stuff? It's a miracle.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by AntonyF:
Yeah, but I really don't want a "litany of positive stuff" after that one negative review.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So who asked for a litany of nothing but positive stuff? I just asked that headlines be less negative IF that was supported by the underlying content of the article. I didn't ask that you put a positive spin on everything. I never asked that.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by AntonyF:
I might just go hunt for more negative stuff.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do whatever floats your boat.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by AntonyF:
But what annoys me is that I can't block you from the website.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Soon, I may do this for myself. However, I do like BlackStar's fanfic, and would miss that, as well as the comments of most of the others here.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by AntonyF:
People like you, unappreciative whiners, don't even DESERVE to see the great content that's coming.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There you go again. Exhibit B.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by AntonyF:
KoshN, he who wants to live in the all-positive one-sided-news world. It don't work like that.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, I just don't want to live in the 99%-negative one-sided-news world.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by channe:
KoshN, "B5LR airdate put back -- again" is a simple statement of fact that happens to have negative connotations. It's FACT. Not opinion.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"B5LR airdate put back -- again" is a misleading statement, that includes only partial, teaser information to get the person to read the article. It's worded like a headline to get someone to buy a paper. Once they read the article, they discover it's no big deal, and are annoyed that they bought the paper. Admittedly here, on this site, where you're not "buying the paper," it's a small point, and not deserved of all the words that have been spent discussing it.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by AntonyF:
Exactly Channe. And even the negative review article is a statment, more than anything. I read the review trying to see if I could focus on the good comments, but that review was in essence a negative one. To try and twist what it was portraying would have been pretty impossible, and misleading.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Have you read nothing I've written? Nobody is asking you to twist a negative review into a positive one. I was just asking that the proportion of positive-to-negative could be reflected in the individual headlines, and in the set of headlines displayed. That's all.

Personally, I will do my best to refrain from posting threads with incendiary words, or misleading/partial information especially in the title, but also in the body, especially with regards to TLaDiS.

------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel. http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited November 03, 2001).]

AntonyF · Nov 3, 2001

I could just keep on and on with KoshN, but it's wasted energy. But I have better things to do, like working on B5LR.com

You are bias KoshN, pure and simple. And I mean that in your interpration of things. YOU are the one that is complaining about negativity. YOU are the one that is creating it for yourself.

What good news have we had since SiL you say? I say LOTS! B5 is back for the 3rd time now, even if the 2nd time didn't last long. We have a wonderful cast, who come here and contribute with us the fans. What other shows' casts do that? We have people involved with the production who have put a lot of work into this fabulous telemovie, and are eager to share their happiness with being involved with it. We have SCI FI, a channel that has basically brought B5 back from the dead after the TNG sagas. They not only show fans B5, and gave them another chance to see Crusade, but they're commissioning a brand new telemovie with the hopes of a new series too. Bonnie Hammer is someone who's appreciative of JMS's talent, and has not been afraid to say so. So with a website like B5LR.com full fo eager fans, and a new B5 project just months away from airing, I say things are GOOD.

Okay, so there's some bad reviews. There's been a good one too. But you have to take the rough with the smooth. Will the bad reviews stop people from watching? Nope. So there's no worry there. Whereas good reviews will only increase the eagerness of the fans.

So YOU may see the headlines as "negative and inflamatory." And YOU may see a "litany of bad news in headlines." But I'm afraid it seems that negativity is in the eye of the beholder.

So what have we got to be happy about since SiL? A lot. If you can't see that, that's your loss.

Roll on January.

------------------
"You're such a gentleman. Too bad I'm not a lady." - Max, Dark Angel

"X5-599. I've got a heart for you." - Zack, Dark Angel

channe · Nov 3, 2001

I think we all needed to hear that, Antony!

------------------
Channe, the next JMS
--
Gatsby believed in the green light, the orgiastic future that year by year recedes before us. It eluded us then, but that's no matter - tomorrow we will run faster, stretch out our arms farther... and one fine morning - so we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.
-f. scott fitzgerald

KoshN · Nov 3, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by AntonyF:
I could just keep on and on with KoshN, but it's wasted energy.

Roll on January.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed, so I'm going to work on some avatars, watch my Crusade tapes, as I wait for Technomage Book 3, and TLaDiS.

------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

gkarfan · Nov 4, 2001

I've been upset at all the bad B5 news in recent years myself, but AntonyF is just reporting what he is getting--I don't think he is purposely adding to it. I was pretty annoyed at the AICN people, though. Either they are Trek fans who won't give anything B5-related a chance, or they were expecting a movie for the longtime B5 fans, rather than one that is designed to bring new fans in.

Tammy

------------------

"We're in here! Can anyone hear us?"
"I hear you." [giggle, laugh]
"In here!"
"We are here." [giggle, laugh]
-- Londo and G'Kar in Babylon 5:"Convictions"

Tammy's Station
http://community.webtv.net/gkarfan/TammysStation

Zoriah · Nov 6, 2001

I get where you are coming from Antony F, but I also think I understand what KoshN was trying to say.

That some of the headlines (not necessarily the content) recently seemed to add to the negative spin needlessly.

I admit that I was immediately put into an upset and angry mood reading headlines like 'put back - again' and 'B5 rangers slammed' etc. It wasn't until I read the articles and peoples posts that I realised it might not be as bad as it first seemed especially regarding the date change. You have to admit that the headlines for that week or so were very negative and that someone browsing might get the impression it was all downhill from here.

I know you don't think that, and you are not at all trying to put a negative spin on things, this was just my personal impression of the headlines. I believe KoshN was merely pointing out that perhaps the headlines he mentioned could have been worded slightly differently so as to not be so jarringly negative.

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bakana · Nov 7, 2001

Whatever anyone thinks about the topic titles, Antony isn't the person responsible.

Each of the people complaining to him about them has started a thread at least Once and Knows that the person who Strats the thread is the one who creates the title.

Unless someone posts an obscene title, there is no good reason for anyone to Change them after the thread has been opened.

Don't like the titles?

Complain to the people who Started them.
Perhaps even IN the thread(s).

------------------
The 3 most common elements in the Universe:
Hydrogen, Greed, Stupidity!

AntonyF · Nov 7, 2001

I did actually create that thread title, in fairness, as it was from a news item.

But really, this has been and gone. I don't want it resurfacing, so will now close the topic.

------------------
"You're such a gentleman. Too bad I'm not a lady." - Max, Dark Angel

My other girlfriend is a crack whore.

B5LR put back, again

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