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B5LR: Disappointment

Well I had the tape sneaked to Denmark from the US.
As a pilot I liked it, way better than the Gathering.
And as usual I am not taking anything in the pilot for granted, he could take it anywhere really.
Hmm I am still disapointed over the fact that Crusade is dead
frown.gif


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My Brain is trying to kill me

[This message has been edited by Hobbes (edited February 03, 2002).]
 
>I see the same attitudes on this board that i saw on boards after SW episode one came out. Die hard fans whom convinced themselves it was better out of fanboy denial>

Now this is just stupid. Its really stupid.

This is another case of, " I don't like this, so your a "fanboy" (boy I hate that term) if you like it."

I will state this: I liked SW Episode One.

Was it better then the others? No.

But I liked it. And maybe it was just as good as Star Wars: A New Hope, but I haven't made my mind up.

I like SW: Episode 1 though. Its a fun movie. Just like the other three Star Wars were.

And I think Episode 2 will be better, despite the horrible title. (well, here's hoping anyway)

I'm not blind. Nobody else here is blind.

You didn't like Legend of the Rangers, a lot of people here did.

Including me. I liked the movie. Was it perfect? No.

Was it better then In the Beginning? To me, no.

But it was definitly second best. Better then A Call to Arms or River of Souls and most definitly better then Thirdspace and the Gathering.

I think this pilot was much better then B5's pilot. I think it was a Million times better then Crusade's "first" episode, " War Zone".

I liked the movie, other people liked the movie, get over it.

The hardest lesson I've learned on the net: People will like stuff you don't like; and they will also hate stuff you like.

Everybody is different. Different tastes.

I don't Lexx, I don't like Xena or Herculas, but theres people who like them.

I like Star Wars: Episode 1, I like Legend of the Ranges and Crusade, but theres people who don't like them.

In fact, I'm another person who ends up liking a lot of stuff that lots of people don't like.

I'm use to being in the minority.

So what do you do? You just like what you like.

I know sometimes, I start reading something negative about something I like..I reply sometimes..I don't others.

And usually when I read something postive about something I don't like..I just think to myself, " WHY do they like that?" but don't reply.

I suggest if you can't learn this hard lesson that maybe the internet isn't a good place for you to be.

Cause here on the net, there are no "fanboys". Theres just people who like stuff you don't like.

DF2506

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I got to see the movie today (the less mentioned about the means, the better, but I solemnly promise to both watch it on a TV channel near me if it's ever aired, and to buy an official copy if one's ever released). And no, I won't mind seeing it again.
laugh.gif


I liked it. I really did. I didn't have too high expectations (I'm not really that fond of any of the earlier B5 movies), and I'd read all the spoilers, but I guess I managed to watch it with an open mind.

As a scifi action/adventure movie it was thoroughly enjoyable and entertaining. Sure it had its flaws (to nitpick... surely I'm not the only one who thought Na'Feels makeup looked like painted latex or plastic, not natural at all? The rest of the makeup was fine though), but I've yet to see a movie without any flaws.

It was a good pilot that left plenty of threads hanging, and a decent stand-alone movie.

The characters were great and the crew had good chemistry, it was pretty obvious. It certainly looked like they were all in this together, working for a common goal, supporting each other, even managing to joke under difficult circumstances.

Both David and Dulann were very likable characters right from the first scenes. Of course, the rest of the crew didn't get as much airtime but they all seem to have a lot of growth potential.

And G'Kar...
blush.gif
It was just so great to see him again. I was a tiny bit worried he might be too much of a distraction, drawing the attention away from the crew of the Liandra, but he was IMHO perfectly balanced - a real joy to watch but not too much in the foreground.

The weapons system. Looked cool, but I've got to agree with those who think it needs some fine-tuning. As it was now, it just seems too exhausting. Sarah looked tired after the minefield sequence - a bit longer and it may have started to have a negative effect on her performance.

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"Isn't the universe an amazing place? I wouldn't live anywhere else." - G'Kar, B5: Rangers
Kribu's Lounge | kribu@ranger.b5lr.com | Kribu.net
 
I agree. There's really no such thing as a fangirl/fanboy.

I'm the farthest away from being one, even though it's been mentioned in connection with my name before, because I happen to have been very impressed by a little show called Babylon 5 and mentioned that I would probably give anything JMS wrote and I had access to a try. It just so happened that most of the stuff I tried was really good, as well. I admire the guy for his ability to walk around in Hollywood and say that he won't be rewritten. Not every writer can do that. (Full creative control? That doesn't happen every day, kids.)

Does that make me a fangirl? Some people would argue yes. I'd argue no - come on, people? Does liking Pepsi, trying Pepsi Twist because you liked Pepsid, and admiring Pepsi for the way it stands its own against Coke, make you a Pepsi fanboy? No! This fanboy/girl accusatory stuff is absolutely ridiculous.

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channe@[url="http://cryoterrace.tripod.com"]cryoterrace[/url] | "I wonder," said Frodo, "but I don't know. And that's the way of a real tale."
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kribu:
I got to see the movie today (the less mentioned about the means, the better, but I solemnly promise to both watch it on a TV channel near me if it's ever aired, and to buy an official copy if one's ever released). And no, I won't mind seeing it again.
laugh.gif


I liked it. I really did. I didn't have too high expectations (I'm not really that fond of any of the earlier B5 movies), and I'd read all the spoilers, but I guess I managed to watch it with an open mind.

As a scifi action/adventure movie it was thoroughly enjoyable and entertaining. Sure it had its flaws (to nitpick... surely I'm not the only one who thought Na'Feels makeup looked like painted latex or plastic, not natural at all?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, actually, I think you're the first to mention this. What? Too shiny compared to G'Kar's?


I re-watched TLaDiS again last night, and the only things that really bug me about it are:

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI>Sarah's "It ain't over 'till it's over." line (not the line, the look on her face when she said the line).

<LI>When they lift off from Minbar, the ship is shaking all around, yet we cut back & forth between the external view of the ship and the bridge crew, several times and nobody's being jostled, at all.

<LI>The way the weapons are fired in the VR Gunnery pod.

<LI>Sarah's facial expressions and long scream while destroying the mines.
[/list]

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KoshN
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Vorlon Empire

Crusade (reruns) starting 03/26/2002 at 1PM EST on the Sci-Fi Channel
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited February 04, 2002).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KoshN:
Well, actually, I think you're the first to mention this. What? Too shiny compared to G'Kar's?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Too shiny and generally not looking like real skin but, well, more like a plastic mask or something. Too tight, perhaps? At least it was something that bugged me, and I haven't noticed it with any other Narns.

As for other little things... sure, there was a line here or there that could have been better, an occasional delivery that wasn't perfect, some visual inconsistencies - but I have yet to see a perfect movie, so I'm pretty lax about those things.
smile.gif


To me, it's mainly the general feeling that counts, and TLaDiS left me with a good feeling, no matter the little problems.

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"There are things out there beyond imagination, and I have a rather healthy imagination." - G'Kar, B5: Rangers
Kribu's Lounge | kribu@ranger.b5lr.com | Kribu.net
 
It boggles my mind how some people can nitpick on such minute details as a couple of corny lines here and there and one or two fight sequences and then declare the movie a failure because of that. I'm not talking about KoshN ro Kribu or anyone in particular (because I know you guys aren't doing this), but it's the kind of thing I'm reading a lot.

Folks, if you can't look at the big picture, that's just too bad.

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GKarsEye:
It boggles my mind how some people can nitpick on such minute details as a couple of corny lines here and there and one or two fight sequences and then declare the movie a failure because of that. I'm not talking about KoshN ro Kribu or anyone in particular (because I know you guys aren't doing this), but it's the kind of thing I'm reading a lot.

Folks, if you can't look at the big picture, that's just too bad.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know what you mean, GKarsEye. I listed the items above just to indicate that except for these few small nits, I really liked the pilot.
smile.gif


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KoshN
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Vorlon Empire

Crusade (reruns) starting 03/26/2002 at 1PM EST on the Sci-Fi Channel

http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Technomage Roanna:
I agree with your brilliant assessment...
wink.gif


Not that JMS has done anything similar in previous works...
crazy.gif


I just realized I hadn't thanked you for the compliment yet, RW.
blush.gif
Ooopsie.
blush.gif


So, thank you for the compliment.
laugh.gif


Ro

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ro, I just now read this, so pardon me, but you're welcome! And thanks for agreeing with me.
smile.gif


------------------
Dulann: You don't solve your problems by hitting them.
David Martel: Yeah, well, it made me feel better.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GKarsEye:
I'm not talking about KoshN or Kribu or anyone in particular (because I know you guys aren't doing this), but it's the kind of thing I'm reading a lot.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd certainly hope so, since I made exactly the same point - it's not the few imperfect details that matter but the whole.
lol.gif


So that bit about the makeup bothered me just a little - did it ruin the movie for me? Hell no! So Minbar looked different than we've seen before - so what?

JMS has said from the first that TLaDiS was to be more action-orientated than B5. A different story, a new take, set in the same universe as B5 but not a direct continuation of the B5 story. That's exactly how I took the movie, and it turned out to be a throroughly entertaining 1.5 hours.
smile.gif


------------------
"There are things out there beyond imagination, and I have a rather healthy imagination." - G'Kar, B5: Rangers
Kribu's Lounge | kribu@ranger.b5lr.com | Kribu.net
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Citizen DF:

>I see the same attitudes on this board that i saw on boards after SW episode one came out. Die hard fans whom convinced themselves it was better out of fanboy denial>

Now this is just stupid. Its really stupid.

This is another case of, " I don't like this, so your a "fanboy" (boy I hate that term) if you like it."

And usually when I read something postive about something I don't like..I just think to myself, " WHY do they like that?" but don't reply.

I suggest if you can't learn this hard lesson that maybe the internet isn't a good place for you to be.

Cause here on the net, there are no "fanboys". Theres just people who like stuff you don't like.

DF2506

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Im merely expressing my opinion. I wont go into an argument regarding the semantics of what a 'fanboy' is and whether its even a negative comment. The last thing needed is flame wars.

The crux of my point is that people often wear blinders many times when they WANT something to succeed or be good, and in turn do an injustice by not maintaining a steady critical standard. By all means if you truly loved the show, great! Its entertainment, its about escapism and having fun. However, when i spend money or time viewing media, and is dissapointing to me, I wish to express that criticism, otherwise who am I to complain if successive works dont meet the standard I entertain.

As far my negative criticism, that is the point of this board, to express one's OPINION, whether it be negative or positive.
In my opinion, i found nothing redeeming in the pilot. In fact, the only reason i didnt turn it off half way through, was because it was babylon 5 related. I looked forward immensely to the pilot, as for me theres a great vacancy in the world of sci-fi tv programming. I really hope there is a new series to be critical of, however it most likely wont sustain my viewership based on its heritage alone.

To each his own.

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You have the right to express your opinion, naturally. You have every right to hate the movie and say that you didn't like it.

However, assuming that people who happened to like the movie - for whatever reasons - are 'fanboys' blinded by their love for 'all things JMS' is going a bit far. It's insulting to the people here, those who liked the movie.

I liked the movie. I thought it was and entertaining and enjoyable space adventure - yes, it was quite different from B5, and so? If people like something that's different from what was before, it doesn't make them fanboys who'll lap up everything they're given.

I've seen plenty of B5 episodes I consider far worse than this movie, so I'm reasonably sure I'm not a fangirl who loves everything JMS has put out. (Although I liked Crusade, the 13 existing episodes of which were, again IMHO, better than a good deal of the B5 episodes.)

Not all people like the same things, that's one of the facts of life. Haven't you ever liked anything others have hated?

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"There are things out there beyond imagination, and I have a rather healthy imagination." - G'Kar, B5: Rangers
Kribu's Lounge | kribu@ranger.b5lr.com | Kribu.net
 
well im giving lotr 2 thumbs up.

i think some ppl might have expected it to be a perfect, provocative, enthralling movie, and were let down, like what happened when episode 1 was released.

i dont think the movie is the problem, its just that you expected too much, and got so hyped out by the promotions and stuff that there is no way that reality could live up to your expectations.

lotr wasnt perfect, none of the b5 episodes, or movies are. but they sure as 'ell top 99.999% of the other stuff that's out there.

i thought that episode 1 was the worst movie ever.. the first time i saw it, cuz i was so let down. but, after watching it on dvd - it kind of grew on me. -=hopes he didnt just lose his credibility=- haha


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Humans start wars..
And minbari finish them
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> However, when i spend money or time viewing media, and is dissapointing to me, I wish to express that criticism, otherwise who am I to complain if successive works dont meet the standard I entertain.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well said.

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"Dawn's in trouble? Must be Tuesday." -- Buffy Summers, "Once More With Feeling."
 
Opinions are fine. Thinly disguised insults are not.
smile.gif


Using the term "fanboy" and "denial" in the same sentence was a clear, if maybe unintentional, put down of those people who liked something you didn't.

Maybe those who did like the movie "have blinders on", then again those who disliked the movie could easily dislike it because it was not more of the same. It didn't have the same characters, it didn't have the same background or effects, it didn't have..well whatever they expected it to have. It goes both ways, so don't toss out belittling statements unless you plan on sticking by them or can handle being called on them.

If you didn't intend to insult, then apologize. If you did, then stick by it.
smile.gif



Koshn

Of course the reason JMS doesn't want anyone to send him story ideas is to protect himself from future lawsuits.
smile.gif
If he reads fanfic or anything people send him or incorporates any suggested plotlines then he ethically and legally he has to share credit with the person who came up with the idea. Even if he doesn't use the idea, he still has to be careful if he decides to do anything similar because of the threat of lawsuits.

It definately makes constructive criticism difficult.
laugh.gif


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Lyta lives!
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Even if he doesn't use the idea, he still has to be careful if he decides to do anything similar because of the threat of lawsuits.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And worst of all is the case where a fan sends him an idea that he's already working on as was the case with "Passing Through Gethsemene". Originally slated as an S1 episode it had to be shelved until JMS could track down the fan who posted the idea on the newsgroup and ensure that there would be no legal problems.

And no, KoshN, a "standard release" is not enough in a case like this. The problem is that it wouldn't be enough to stop a fan who decided he/she wanted credit or money from filing a suit in the first place. Even if JMS ultimately prevailed, he's out lawyer's fees, associated costs and precious time dealing with depositions, witnesses and testimony. So he loses even if he wins. It simply isn't worth it.

Studios will sometimes accept complete scripts from aspiring writers who complete a standard submission form designed to protect both parties. But it is assumed that the writer will have registered the script with the Writer's Guild as a percaution, and that he/she is an aspiring professional who wants to get into the business and that the agreement will be honored on both sides.

You can't make that assumption with the general public. Besides, the studios have batallions of lawyers on the payroll to deal with this kind of thing. JMS doesn't.

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino:
And no, KoshN, a "standard release" is not enough in a case like this. The problem is that it wouldn't be enough to stop a fan who decided he/she wanted credit or money from filing a suit in the first place.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's a shame we live in such a litigious society. It prevents people, who really want nothing in return (except a better story), from contributing.


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KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

Crusade (reruns) starting 03/26/2002 at 1PM EST on the Sci-Fi Channel
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited February 06, 2002).]
 
KoshN, what makes you think you know what's right for JMS's story? What makes you think you can do so much better?

Quality is subjective. You might think soemthing coudl be better if it were one way, but the people that like it as it is wouldn't like your way. So why mess things up?

Let JMS handle his own baby

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We're all born as molecules in the hearts of a billion stars, molecules that do not understand politics, policies and differences. In a billion years we, foolish molecules forget who we are and where we came from. Desperate acts of ego. We give ourselves names, fight over lines on maps. And pretend our light is better than everyone else's. The flame reminds us of the piece of those stars that live inside us. A spark that tells us: you should know better. The flame also reminds us that life is precious, as each flame is unique. When it goes out, it's gone forever. And there will never be another quite like it
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nyght:
Koshn

Of course the reason JMS doesn't want anyone to send him story ideas is to protect himself from future lawsuits.
smile.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd gladly sign away my rights to any story ideas I gave him. No problemo. I just want the story to be better. I'm not after any financial gain here.

OTOH, he'd probably be having to read tons of submitted ideas. No time for that.
frown.gif



<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nyght:
If he reads fanfic or anything people send him or incorporates any suggested plotlines then he ethically and legally he has to share credit with the person who came up with the idea.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Even if he has a standard form that they signed, saying that it was given freely and that they (the fans who came up with the idea) don't want the credit, and give up all their rights to the idea?


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nyght:
It definately makes constructive criticism difficult.
laugh.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can say that again!
frown.gif


I guess all we can do is to tell him the problem (specifically), but not the solution, on rastb5m.


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KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

Crusade (reruns) starting 03/26/2002 at 1PM EST on the Sci-Fi Channel
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited February 06, 2002).]
 
well . i've been away from the net for over a month. i rushed here to see your thoughts on the movie and was hoping to see an announcement on a series. shoulda know ha?
why is it that nothing is ever easy for B5?
Trek and SW get automatic new movies and series and we have to fight and fight and fight. It's just so depressing.
as for the show getting creamed by a sporting event , I know how u guys must feel.
Here's B5's competition over the last few years in SA:
season 2 & 3 : our version of who wants to be a millionaire
season 4: our version of big brother
and now pop idols is starting up .
it gets no mention in the various tv guides or by the critics, no weekly episode trailers just 2 or 3 series trailers
its incredibly frustrating
im just glad ive gotten to see almost 4 seasons of it.

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Taking an eye for an eye will leave the whole world blind.

And still no bloody pictures of Zathras!
 
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