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The Official "City of Roses" Thread

Recoil

Regular
The Official \"City of Roses\" Thread

Ok, here is my nutshell feeling on the episode. First off so far I really like the JMS episodes over the Sam Egan ones. No this isnt because I am brainwashed from B5, its just that his episodes seem more packed and there is just something extra in them. Sam's episodes, similarly seem to be missing something, although I think he is getting more in touch as he goes on.

Honestly, I really didnt like this episode much at all. To be perfectly frank, I felt almost nothing watching it --- up until the last 10min with Kurdy, where things finally hit home. The last 10min was very moving IMO, but other than that, this episode seemed very hollow to me, as well as all over the place.

The pick up the girl who was raped, brought her back, and started trying to help her recover. But that whole part just seemed empty as well. The quick glance of Marcus and Megan was included, but I dont think added all that much, other than to remind viewers that she is there. I am not sure I also bought the "staged argument" between Jeremiah and Kurdy, and that whole exchange seemed odd and out of place as well. Jeremiah talking to Farallon wasn't as revealing as I had anticipated, and was very short as well. The heart of the episode to me was Kurdy remembering about his parents. This part, especially the end, was very well done and moving. But as I said above, the rest of the episode just seemed to be lacking.

Anyway, not to be overly critical, but that was the first episode that really didnt hold my attention all the way though. It wasnt until the end that I really got into it, and that part was done well enough that I still walked away with a good feeling about it.

Either way, next week's "Firewall" will rule.
 
Re: The Official \"City of Roses\" Thread

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr> First off so far I really like the JMS episodes over the Sam Egan ones. No this isnt because I am brainwashed from B5, its just that his episodes seem more packed and there is just something extra in them. Sam's episodes, similarly seem to be missing something, although I think he is getting more in touch as he goes on.
<hr></blockquote>

Well no one would ever accuse me of being a JMS fan and I agree with you, his episodes are far better than Egan's. They both seem to do a good job with the Kurdy character, but it just seems to me that he has a better feel for the Jeremiah character.
 
Re: The Official \"City of Roses\" Thread

This episode is one that all new shows have. Its a filler story which gives ya background info, and moves the plot up a little bit. Then next week it hits ya with a big episode. Im looking forward to it

capt
 
Re: The Official \"City of Roses\" Thread

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by CaptDS9E:
<font color=yellow>This episode is one that all new shows have. Its a filler story which gives ya background info, and moves the plot up a little bit. Then next week it hits ya with a big episode. Im looking forward to it

capt</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

I noticed that the equipment being used to test the blood at the campsite Jeremiah went to had a big "V" stenciled on it. The camera paused on the stencil for a brief moment.

Could it be that the encampment is a part of Valhalla Sector? This may be more of a setup episode than a filler episode. We just don't know it yet.
 
Re: The Official \"City of Roses\" Thread

Yep setup episode. Why i wrote filler i dont know. While transfering it to tape from my tivo after i wrote the the last post i did recognize the V. Those little hints keep ya guessing

capt
 
Re: The Official \"City of Roses\" Thread

Well, now that the site updates are done and the newsletter has gone out, I feel I can come back out and play. /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif

I am pretty much in agreement with Recoil here. Roses was better than The Bag but there was still something missing and I can't put my finger on it. I however liked seeing Meaghan again even if it was a bit of an odd dialoge and of course about Kurdy's past. Here are the questions I thought about after watching the episode a few times:
<ul type="square">[*] Why did Kurdy's parents kill themselves without making sure Kurdy was taken care of?
[*] Did Kurdy's parents know that their son was watching them?
[*] Has Markus told the council about Meaghan yet?
[*] Did the logo that we saw when Jeremiah was talking to Farralon from the Valhalla Sector?
[*] After Farralon's group analyzes Jimmy Holcomb's blood, what will they learn from it?
[*] What are the signs Farralon sees which lead him to believe that the Big Death is returning?
[*] What is worse: Telling people about the return of the BigD and causing a panic or keeping it a secret and hope that a cure is found in time?[/list]
Oh and check out the screen caps from my site for a shot of that possible VS logo:
http://abyss.hubbe.net/jeremiah/gallery/s1.html#108
 
Re: The Official \"City of Roses\" Thread

Re: That photo of the logo.

That COULD be a VS not just a V. The white area looks like it may be an "S" in the same type of font.
 
Re: The Official \"City of Roses\" Thread

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Lyta:
<font color=yellow>Roses was better than The Bag but there was still something missing and I can't put my finger on it.</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>Well, for one, the pacing was off, making a lot of the scene transitions feel forced and jarring. Jms' scripts generally flow much more naturally.

There's also all those scenes (mostly in The Bag) that start with Kurdy entering the room, looking upbeat and essentially asking "What's up?", making me feel like I'm watching some generic "black" sitcom...
 
Re: The Official \"City of Roses\" Thread

Originally posted by Recoil:
<font color=yellow>That COULD be a VS not just a V. The white area looks like it may be an "S" in the same type of font.</font color=yellow>

Yeah, that is what I thought when I first saw it. Plus, Jeremiah says, "As soon as you explain to me where you got all this technology from." and the camera pans over to the blue box with this logo as if in answer to that question. Hmm ... /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

Drakh, you have a good point about the pacing and I laughed when you talked about Kurdy.
 
Re: The Official \"City of Roses\" Thread

I noticed the same thing about "The Bag."

You know you've been following the same writer for long enough that you can *tell* just by the feel of the script and the way the lines are paced who wrote it... /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif
 
Re: The Official \"City of Roses\" Thread

Ok. Stuff I noticed about City of Roses:

- That pan to the logo on the equipment was far too obvious to be anything but a red flag screaming "NOTICE ME!" It's either from Valhalla Sector - or a really bad red herring.

- Did you notice how Farralon answered Jeremiah's question about the Big Death? "The good thing is - nobody's died yet, not that we know of?" That's a big resounding YES to me. There are people who are infected. So - where did it come from? Did it infect everyone, including the kids, but just stay latent until the kids reached a certain age? Oh, that would truly be putting a torpedo up Noah's arse...

- "Panic." Good line. Good line!

- This is ruthless... this show is just ruthless...
 
Re: The Official \"City of Roses\" Thread

So.. finally I got to see this episode. I agree that it was a bit slow in the middle but really got to you in the end. The first few minutes I think was rattling and, yeah.. ruthless. I was very surprised to se J starting to execute those skinheads without even slowing his pace. So.. He's a noble guy who wants to do the right thing, but were do you draw the line? J just saw what they had done to that girl, associated that jacket with the death of his brother, then he put himself in motion. He was acting police, judge, and executioner. That is a lot of authority to give oneself.

The crime they had committed was horrible, but to just kill them off like that! It is hard to say what was really the right thing to do there. Honestly I don't know what I would have done was I in his place. I might in the end have tried to kill them in order to spare their next victims. But that feels a bit to much like playing God for my taste. Anyway, I would hesitate. J didn't. He just went for it. J gotta be a bit "fucked up"!!

Anyway. Kurdy straightened him up about it later in that bedroom scene. "Not one more corpse on that pile then is absolutely necessary."

Then the pace got slower, and it didn’t really get up again until the last 10 minutes.

Thought I'd take Lytas list here and make some comments.

<font color=yellow>Here are the questions I thought about after watching the episode a few times:
<ul type="square">[*] Why did Kurdy's parents kill themselves without making sure Kurdy was taken care of?</font color=yellow>
The passions of the moment makes a lot of people do unwise things.

<font color=yellow>[*] Did Kurdy's parents know that their son was watching them?</font color=yellow>
No. I'm sure they didn't. She would never want her son to see her die.

<font color=yellow>[*] Has Markus told the council about Meaghan yet?</font color=yellow>
Who knows. But probably no. That is a much to good conflict not to include in the series.
<font color=yellow>[*] Did the logo that we saw when Jeremiah was talking to Farralon from the Valhalla Sector?</font color=yellow>
Yes! Of course it has to be! /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif I can se a V and n S easily. And it was so obvious. "Where did you get this tech from?" and the camera goes away and finds a VS logo.. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

<font color=yellow>[*] After Farralon's group analyzes Jimmy Holcomb's blood, what will they learn from it?</font color=yellow>
Who knows. But I am a bit confused here. Because when I watched "the bag" I got the impression that "they" forcedly used him as a lab rat. Why would he desperately want some of his blood to go to the people that had abused him? But perhaps it was by his own free will, that would explain that. But I bet my computer that Farralon 'n friends did't tell him everything.

<font color=yellow>[*] What are the signs Farralon sees which lead him to believe that the Big Death is returning?</font color=yellow>
Infected people! /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

<font color=yellow>[*] What is worse: Telling people about the return of the BigD and causing a panic or keeping it a secret and hope that a cure is found in time?</font color=yellow>
I would chose to keep it a secret. They have no resources anymore to controle a population gone wild in panic. But they might have the resources to crack the problem before it kills them of.[/list]

All in all a good setup episode.
/Com
 
Re: The Official \"City of Roses\" Thread

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Com:
<font color=yellow>He was acting police, judge, and executioner. That is a lot of authority to give oneself.</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>Well, somobody has to, since the police, judges, and executioners are all dead.<font color=yellow><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>The crime they had committed was horrible, but to just kill them off like that! It is hard to say what was really the right thing to do there. Honestly I don't know what I would have done was I in his place. I might in the end have tried to kill them in order to spare their next victims. But that feels a bit to much like playing God for my taste. Anyway, I would hesitate. J didn't. He just went for it. J gotta be a bit "fucked up"!!</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>Jeremiah is very much a product of the world he grew up in, and won't fit into the ethical framework we use now. He had one way to deal with the skinheads. Leaving them alive probably doomed countless other girls to far worse things than than Lydia(?) got.
 
Re: The Official \"City of Roses\" Thread

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by drakh:
<font color=yellow>Jeremiah is very much a product of the world he grew up in, and won't fit into the ethical framework we use now. He had one way to deal with the skinheads. Leaving them alive probably doomed countless other girls to far worse things than than Lydia(?) got.</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

Yeah..

Perhaps such a fucked up world needs some fucked up people...

/Com
 
Re: The Official \"City of Roses\" Thread

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by drakh:
<font color=yellow>Well, somobody has to, since the police, judges, and executioners are all dead.<font color=yellow> Jeremiah is very much a product of the world he grew up in, and won't fit into the ethical framework we use now. He had one way to deal with the skinheads. Leaving them alive probably doomed countless other girls to far worse things than than Lydia(?) got.</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

I think the Clint Eastwood line in "The Unforgiven" covers the situration, "Some people just need killin'" And so the world goes.......
 
Re: The Official \"City of Roses\" Thread

Originally posted by Com:
<font color=yellow>Thought I'd take Lytas list here and make some comments.</font color=yellow>

<ul type="square"><font color=orange>[*] Why did Kurdy's parents kill themselves without making sure Kurdy was taken care of?</font color=orange>
<font color=yellow>The passions of the moment makes a lot of people do unwise things.</font color=yellow>

Yes, but they obviously loved Kurdy very much from what we were shown in the flashbacks. At least Kurdy evidently forgave his father for doing what he had to do but sheesh, it wasn't like they didn't have any time to make provisions for Kurdy before they wacked themselves off. Hell, no wonder Kurdy blocked it out.

<font color=orange>[*] Did Kurdy's parents know that their son was watching them?</font color=orange>
<font color=yellow>No. I'm sure they didn't. She would never want her son to see her die.</font color=yellow>

But she obviously didn't think about her son when she asked her husband to kill her off so why not ignore the fact that he might be watching/listening to them. We saw Kurdy walk in the door in the middle of their arguement so we can assume that he just hide himself before they saw him ... but we don't know that for sure either.

<font color=orange>[*] Has Markus told the council about Meaghan yet?</font color=orange>
<font color=yellow>Who knows. But probably no. That is a much to good conflict not to include in the series.</font color=yellow>

I know, it didn't seem like he had told them but their apperance in the episode was so brief that it is hard to tell for sure. I really wanted to know how Markus was going to deal with that ...

<font color=orange>[*] Did the logo that we saw when Jeremiah was talking to Farralon from the Valhalla Sector?</font color=orange>
<font color=yellow>Yes! Of course it has to be! /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif I can se a V and n S easily. And it was so obvious. "Where did you get this tech from?" and the camera goes away and finds a VS logo.. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif</font color=yellow>

*snicker* Yes, but didn't it almost seem a bit -too- obvious? /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif They don't say for sure it -was- from VS but it certainly leads you to believe that it very well -might- be. I have just seen too many conflicting things about VS to try to understand who and what they are. My feeling is that it isn't anything that cut and dry and once we hear their side of things we might all change our mind about them. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

<font color=orange>[*] After Farralon's group analyzes Jimmy Holcomb's blood, what will they learn from it?</font color=orange>
<font color=yellow>Who knows. But I am a bit confused here. Because when I watched "the bag" I got the impression that "they" forcedly used him as a lab rat. Why would he desperately want some of his blood to go to the people that had abused him? But perhaps it was by his own free will, that would explain that. But I bet my computer that Farralon 'n friends did't tell him everything.</font color=yellow>

Actually, I didn't get the impression that they forced Jimmy to participate in their experiments. I agree that I don't think Farralon didn't reveal all that they knew especially after that conversation he had with Jeremiah. This kind of leads into my next question ...

<font color=orange>[*] What are the signs Farralon sees which lead him to believe that the Big Death is returning?</font color=orange>
<font color=yellow>Infected people! /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif</font color=yellow>

/ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif Sure but -how- do they know they are infected with the BigD and not some other illness? What are the symptoms? Where is their proof? I surely didn't see any of that from Farralon's group.

<font color=orange>[*] What is worse: Telling people about the return of the BigD and causing a panic or keeping it a secret and hope that a cure is found in time?</font color=orange>
<font color=yellow>I would chose to keep it a secret. They have no resources anymore to controle a population gone wild in panic. But they might have the resources to crack the problem before it kills them of.</font color=yellow>

This is a hard question for me to answer because if you tell people then maybe there is someone out there who has the knowledge or resources to help and you just didn't know about it. It would have to be revealed carefully in order to not create a panic and I don't know how that would be done. Keeping it a secret is also a sound decision but you also risk failure -because- of not having enough resources. The only way to find out about the BigD and finding a cure or vaccine requires co-operation with what little resources are left in the world.

This question a double edged sword in my view. /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif[/list]
 
Re: The Official \"City of Roses\" Thread

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Lyta:
<font color=yellow>This question a double edged sword in my view. /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif[/LIST]</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

"The truth is a three edged sword" /ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif

/Com
 

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