somethings been bugging me

[Emfeeli]

Well, after see B5lr again, I realized something that really pissed me off the first time, and pissed me off even more the second time. THE SETS. They were just so plastic. Every bit of them stunk with un-authenticity. I'm talking faker than b5 first season.
The reasons why and the bits I picked up:

1. When there was a hull breachon the bridge the same hole kept blowing open.

2. When someone woud hit into a wall it would bend. No joke.

3.the crisis center on the bridge or whatever it was sucked. the control panels were lit up and really phony. Plus, how could the Liandra a really old and crappy ship have that holographic terminal if newer ships only have those screens that come down (like the whitestar).

4. It just looked dorky. the bridge didn't look cool. It looked jumbled and plastic. everything looked like one piece of plastic with a few blinking lights. When I look back on the excalibur set from A Call to Arms it just feels so much more sturdy. Was the budget smalle or something. that's the only thing I can imagine as an excuse. I know you guys will argue: "well its supposed to feel cluttered and not as cool cause its a relic." Well yes, but relics don't look fake.

5. dont even talk about the med bay. It was just a small room with a bed. and it wasnt even a minbari type bed. oh and it had a little cushoin. uhhh.

If the show had gone on into a series I really hope they would have done some reworking of the interior like the did to Andromeda. Even though that show sucks.

oh and finally. I really do think you see kafka in Dulann's vision . I saw it and I wasn't even looking for it. IT"S THERE DAMMIT. I DON't CARE WHAT JMS SAYS.

ok thats it. I just wanted to know if it bugged anyone else as much as it did for me. and I'm not getting needlessly picky here either. A ship hasto be presentable if you're going to have an ongoing series.

Phil

 

[Recoil]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
<font color="yellow">oh and finally. I really do think you see kafka in Dulann's vision . I saw it and I wasn't even looking for it. IT"S THERE DAMMIT. I DON't CARE WHAT JMS SAYS.</font color>

[/quote]
Actually KoshN or someone posted screencaps taken from that scene and a quick image of Kafka was indeed inserted in there somewhere.

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I noticed no cheapness in interiors.
Perhaps it's a matter of taste.

As for hospital beds -- it is arguable whether slanted beds would be very practical for operating. The Minbari might prefer them for rest, but operating under 45-degree angle would be a doctor's nightmare.

 

[Loadhan]

Possibly ... it was post operating (or whatever they did) ... but the Minbari wanted to put Susan's bed (after she was mortally wounded in the fight with Clarke's Shadowtech Destroyer fleet) in the diagonal position but Marcus forced them to make it horizontal. Not sure how they operated but they wanted her at an angel - and thought it bad luck otherwise. Most of the time we Dulann he was resting - with no one else in the room so I doubt any treatment was currently beginning. Of course, maybe he had specialied injuries where flat beds were needed - like elevating an injured foot but something more serious ... that did bug me though, seeing a horizontal bed!

 

[LightNZ]

Actually, it was the Crusade Sets that annoyed me - not the Rangers once (as to looking fake)
- design was always great - just the material, colour i guess (of crusade)

 

[hypatia]

Loadhan, I think JMS himself addressed this. What I remember reading is that during an operation, of course a flat surface would be used. But afterwards, a slanted surface would be used for recovery.

Dulann could well have been undergoing transfusions that we couldn't see (there was a big thing around most of his body, I'd presume it could be pumping vital fluids through him, or doing other things like that).

Anyhow, that's my best guess. As I said, I think I did read JMS saying that is why operations were done one way, and sleeping/recovering was done in another.
Ivanova was not only "post-operation" but was in a brace, wasn't she? It would make sense then to consider that as close to a "recovery" phase as she was ever going to get (i.e. no more operations/transfusions, etc would be going on at that point in time).

 

[channe]

Besides, the first thing people who don't know anything about Minbari culture (i.e., the audience "Rangers" was really shooting for) would scream is "but... but operating at a 45 degree angle would probably kill the patient!!!!! How unbelievable!!!!!"

Not exactly the reaction JMS would have been going for.

 

[A_M_Swallow]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
3.the crisis center on the bridge or whatever it was sucked. the control panels were lit up and really phony. Plus, how could the Liandra a really old and crappy ship have that holographic terminal if newer ships only have those screens that come down (like the whitestar).



[/quote]

The display technology was new to Earth ships. Minbari ships had them from the beginning. See the command centre in "Shadow Dancing".

 

[Emfeeli]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
The display technology was new to Earth ships. Minbari ships had them from the beginning. See the command centre in "Shadow Dancing".


[/quote]

I spot a flaw. I do believe that this ship would be older than that of a Sharlin cruiser. Also, the command deck of which you mention in "Shadow Dancing" is much like that in B5lr in the Grey Council chambers, and more similiar to the holographic screen on a whitestar than on the command deck in the Liandra.

Phil

 

[KoshN]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
<font color="yellow"> Originally posted by LightNZ: </font color>
Actually, it was the Crusade Sets that annoyed me - not the Rangers once (as to looking fake)
- design was always great - just the material, colour i guess (of crusade)

[/quote]

Wait a minute..... Were you that designer guy in "Appearances and Other Deceits" ??? /forums/images/icons/tongue.gif

Actually, the only thing that bothered me about the Crusade sets was the periscope thing on the Excalibur's bridge. When people see a periscope, they're used to seeing the ones like in submarines, which look more substantial (like machined stainless steel) and have the "close tolerance" kind of movement (smooth with no play), like a fine micrometer. The Excalibur's didn't have that look or action, and looked more like a lightweight, painted wood or plastic prop.

Other than that one little point, I thought the Crusade sets were fine.

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

That is because submarine periscopes are optical. You need a straight tube for light to get through. In the twenty-fourth century, anything resemblant of periscopes would be electronic, and wires need not be straight for signal to get through.

 

[KoshN]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
<font color="yellow"> Originally posted by Lennier: </font color>
In the twenty-fourth century,


[/quote]

*cough* twenty-third century *cough* 2267 is 23rd.


</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
<font color="yellow"> Originally posted by Lennier: </font color>
... anything resemblant of periscopes would be electronic, and wires need not be straight for signal to get through.

[/quote]

Still, it wouldn't be flimsy looking. That lack of prestige would reflect upon the mission. It'd have a nice, precise movement and a machined, finished look.

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

My mistake. But where spaceships are involved, lightness could be of importance. For some odd reasons, somebody could have decided to save weight. In addition to that, for some purposes plastic can be stronger than steel.

 

[KoshN]

Titanium, or some aluminum alloy. If not, then carbon fiber (which would support your point).

It's probably a question of inertia. Less mass requires less support of the moment arm. The long moment arm is why I thought they'd have the screen fold out of the captain's chair instead of coming all the way down from the ceiling.

 

[GShans]

i didn't like the idea of a periscope captain's screen, it just doesn't feel right to me.

One thing i have always hated, was that the captains don't really have any controls next to them, what i would like to see, is a ship that has a control panel in front of the captain, that way, if there was a problem, they could take over without having to take time to get to a station. It could just be me, i like the idea of the captain controlling helm or tactical, but still being in the captain's chair.

 

[channe]

I'm pretty sure Martel had controls in front of him on the Liandra.

 

[GShans]

yeah, like that, but more like what Marcus or Lennier sitting next to the captains chair, something like that, but could fold out and in like data's on the ENT-D to let him stand up. (sorry for the Trek referrance, but it's the only one i could think of that had what i was thinking)

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Captain controlling the ship?
I would think it depends on size.
Allow me to compare.

1. Fighter

The pilot is the crew. Naturally he/she will have to handle everything the computer cannot. Yet remember that even in Earth fighters, the pilot gives voice commands to the ship. Minbari fighters require much less buttons or joysticks. Eye and voice commands are sufficient for most basic manouvers.

2. Destroyer

White Stars have limited crew, yet quite capable computers. With computer assistance, one person can pilot a White Star. Yet when piloted by a single person, the ship cannot use its full powers. These require numerous crewmembers, including navigation, countermeasures, fire control, maintenance, engines...

3. Cruiser

Minbari cruisers are more than a mile long. They have fighter wings, construction and repair facilities, laboratories and medical bays. Countless defensive and multiple offensive weapons. Their navigation is complicated, and requires coordination between multiple interests.

To expect a captain to bother with details would be outrageous. That is the specialty of gunners, navigators and fighter pilots. The captain must know their jobs, and consider their interests, but make large-scale tactical decisions.

To expect a fleet commander to command a ship is outrageous too. It would mean wasting strategic abilities on countless tactical tasks. The fleet commander observes the battle, spots strategic weaknesses and issues orders to exploit them.

Computers provide the overview and relay orders, ship captains modify them considering tactical needs, pilots and gunners do the actual shooting, assisted by computers in target assessment and selection. For each ship size, a different model is optimal.

 

[GShans]

I mean for a WhiteStar or a ship like the Defiant from DS9, something like tactical control 1.

 

[channe]

I've been thinking about this for a while, what with writing Redux and all.

The crew complement for the Liandra is 20. There are 8 or 9 main crew. That means eleven or twelve red-shirts, people who we don't normally see on a daily basis. It would be very prudent for the ship to be handled well at 9 or 10, or maybe even less. Who are the twelve red-shirts, though? Na'feel's support staff? Computer techs? Repairmen? Scientists?