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Sinclair, Valen, and Cathrine...

D

**DONOTDELETE**

Guest
Now, I'm working on the theory that the book about Sinclair's escapades on Minbar (and for the life of me I can't remember the name of it...) is pretty much taken as gospel (not literally of course).

SO

Did Sinclair as Valen meet with Cathrine in the previous Great War?

Delenn speaks in Atonement of Valen having to leave Minbar with his children to avoid persecution. Is this because there was some inherent human genetics left from his transformation, or could it be that he "found" Cathrine?

Another theory is that he left with his children from a Minbari woman, and later found Cathrine.

The third theory, rather less plausible, is that he never found Cathrine, that she was taken to another time / place.

Thoughts please!!!!

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--Sharenn--
Zathras:
"Zathras... does not remember. But if Zathras remember, Zathras will tell you!"
--
Zathras: "You are finite, Zathras is finite, this... is wrong tool!"
 
The title of the book is To Dream in the City of Sorrows and yes, it's considered pretty much canon (although not exactly 100% in recent years, I've heard).

My thoughts (and I don't have anything to back them up with, so it's pure speculation) which may contain spoilers (highlight below to read):

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>I got the feeling from the book that he did meet with Catherine again. Wasn't there something about a note in the end that hinted he had found Catherine?

Also, there is the question of the third triluminary - who was that for? One transformed Sinclair to Valen, one turned Delenn into something very close to a human, but what about the third?

Was it there just because of the Minbari tradition of threes or was it perhaps used to give Catherine a Minbari appearance? Because that's the only way the Minbari would have accepted her.</font></td></tr></table>



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"Narns, Humans, Centauri... we all do what we do for the same reason: because it seems like a good idea at the time." - G'Kar, Mind War
Kribu's Lounge | kribu@ranger.b5lr.com
 
That's a good theory...

I'd be interested to hear more.. for a fanfic I'm working on (not like I've got much to do anyway!! LOL
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tongue.gif
)

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--Sharenn--
Zathras:
"Zathras... does not remember. But if Zathras remember, Zathras will tell you!"
--
Zathras: "You are finite, Zathras is finite, this... is wrong tool!"
 
I think I'd have to reread the book to get some more thoughts... that's pretty much all I could think of!!
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laugh.gif


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"Narns, Humans, Centauri... we all do what we do for the same reason: because it seems like a good idea at the time." - G'Kar, Mind War
Kribu's Lounge | kribu@ranger.b5lr.com
 
Anyoen got any other views?

I think I'm going to have to re-read the book as well...
laugh.gif


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--Sharenn--
Zathras:
"Zathras... does not remember. But if Zathras remember, Zathras will tell you!"
--
Zathras: "You are finite, Zathras is finite, this... is wrong tool!"
 
I think that we can take To Dream in the City of Sorrows , as prety much being canon - esepecially as the novel was written by the wife of JMS! Near the end of the book,

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black> having joined the Rangers, Catherine Sakai was on a mission with Sinclair and Marcus, when she fell into the Time Rift in Sector 14, and was considered MIA. Sinclair wanted to go and look for her, but the Vorlons told him that i was impossible. Right at the end of the book, Marcus realised that Sinclair might have travelled back in time, in the slight hope that he might find Catherine alive </font></td></tr></table>


Okay, let's suppose that he did find Catherine alive. She probably either crashlanded somewhere, or hid out - no-one having seen a Human a 1000 years ago. There was no way in Hell she could have returned to Earth - it was quite a haul to get there even in the 23rd century. The Earth of the 13th century would have been more alien to Catherine than any of the alien races she had encountered. Which leaves her with basically three choices. Spend the rest of her life in hiding, kill herself, or live out the rest of her life as a Minbari, and get to be with Sinclair/Valen, and have a full life.
Delenn herself said that if B4 had been found with a Human aboard, that the MInbari would never have accepted it, no matter how desperate they were. And even through Delenn herself had become half-Human, there were strong objections to her marrying Sheridan. The Minbari of a 1000 years before would never have accepted one of them, even a 'Minbari not born of Minbari', marrying an alien.

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This book IS canon. The forward which was written by JMS states that it is. If he says so, then it is true.

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"What do you want you moon-faced assassin of joy?" - Ambassador Londo Mollari, Born to the Purple
 
The book To Dream in the City of Sorrows was written by Kathryn Drennen who is the wife of JMS. So if she is his wife, odds are that yes, the book is cannon.

Also I seem to remember that there was a comic book about Sinclair finding Catherine in the past when he was Valen, but I don't know what it is called or exactly what happens in it because I have never read it. If someone else here has, please feel free to enlighten us!
smile.gif


------------------
Lorien: Who are you?
RW: The salad man.
Lorien: Why are you here?
RW: To be the salad ambassador.
Lorien: What do you want?
RW: Everyone to know the joys of salad.
Lorien: Do you have anything worth living for?
RW: Yes, my salad bars.
 
In the three volume comic, In Valen's Name, it ends with Valen saying "I've found her," or something like that.

Between that and Catherine falling into the time rift, it is generally accepted in B5 fandom that Catherine went back in time and hooked up with Valen.

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."
 
Thanks G'Kar's eye.
smile.gif


------------------
Lorien: Who are you?
RW: The salad man.
Lorien: Why are you here?
RW: To be the salad ambassador.
Lorien: What do you want?
RW: Everyone to know the joys of salad.
Lorien: Do you have anything worth living for?
RW: Yes, my salad bars.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GKarsEye:
In the three volume comic, In Valen's Name, it ends with Valen saying "I've found her," or something like that.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Apparently there is a typo in the comic, as in the sentence just before he says 'I've found her,' he addresses Delenn, Susan and Catherine. Well in the version of the comic that was in B5 mag anyway.



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'I don't have a hat beuetuaufifal, only a graep. Give me a case for solving or give me dearth, or gets on a bus' - Detective Grape on ehad
 
I've never read To Dream, but the romantic in me wants to believe that Sinclair and Catherine Sakai met up after they went back in time, Valen used the triluminary on Sakai, and they lived happily ever after as Minbari (that would explain the human strain, right there...)

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The writer's life is not meant to be a happy one. We all accept that going in. -JMS
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Londos6:
This book IS canon. The forward which was written by JMS states that it is. If he says so, then it is true.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The book was 100% canon at the time it was written. However, I believe that it has been mentioned (here or elsewhere) that later on - the series was still going on at the time - JMS changed some minor things. Mind you, I cannot remember who stated that or where... all I know is that I haven't dreamt this up.
tongue.gif


But basically, it should still be about 95% canon which is almost as good.
smile.gif


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"Narns, Humans, Centauri... we all do what we do for the same reason: because it seems like a good idea at the time." - G'Kar, Mind War
Kribu's Lounge | kribu@ranger.b5lr.com
 
Good, good.

I'll get Whispers in the Night written then attack my next fic.

But I warn you, Whispers isn't gonna be short!


------------------
--Sharenn--
Zathras:
"Zathras... does not remember. But if Zathras remember, Zathras will tell you!"
--
Zathras: "You are finite, Zathras is finite, this... is wrong tool!"
 
I have just checked my copy of In Valen's Name and it ends with Sinclair/Valen saying
in a letter that is turned over to Delenn,

"Don't cry for me. For in the final analysis I've always been too hard on myself. I'll be content to let history judge me and all that has been done in Valen's name. And as for me, I've received my own reward because I've found her at long last, I've found her."

That seems pretty conclusive to me since JMS wrote the comic.

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I always seem to be diagonally parked in a parallel universe.
 
The comic only tells part of the story. After Valen and Catherine find each other, their relationship gets rocky. Valen gets a little too busy for her, what with fighting the Shadows, re-organizing an entire alien society, and saving the galaxy and all. Catherine would be all, "You were supposed to come home for dinner, and instead I bet you were Denn'bok training with the boys!" And he'd be all, "Damnit woman, mind your own business!" "I don't even know you anymore," she'd cry. Eventually, she kicked him out of the house and Valen had to crash on Babylon 4.

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jomar:
That seems pretty conclusive to me since JMS wrote the comic.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Actually, Peter David wrote that issue, from an outline by jms.



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"When a spark goes online, there's great joy --
When one's extinguished, the universe weeps." (audio)
-- Rhinox, "The Spark", Beast Wars

drakh@spamcop.net
 
Personally, Ive always felt that's why the Minbari chased off Valen's kids, because he had a relationship with an offworlder and they couldn't handle it.

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Back when I was a kid in Sunday School, Father Minkowski once said: "Given the crucifixion was a terrible thing for anyone to endure, if you could go back in time 2200 years, would you prevent the crucifixion of Christ?" Well after a heated debate, we all agreed the answer was no. The crucifixion was necessary to redeem the world. - Lt. John Matheson "The Needs of Earth"

"We live for the One. We die for the One!"
 
Okay.. Now, who can explain to me this little thingie.. What role B4 had in 'shadow war'? It never occured to me..
crazy.gif


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Logical thinking - Perfect weapon
 
Major spoiler here, regarding B4:




<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>
It went back in time to defeat the shadows in the war 1000 years before B5's time.

Sinclair went with it and became Valen.

</font></td></tr></table>



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"I do not believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense,
reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."-- Galileo

[This message has been edited by hypatia (edited November 26, 2001).]
 
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