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Sam Egan settling in?


I know a lot of people (myself included) thought that Moon in Gemini, which was the last new epsidoe before the one this week, was Sam Egan's best episode to date. Some thought that there were some directorial issues, but that the overall story was the best Sam Egan had done on Jeremiah to date. I agreed and liked that one the best out of his epsidoes...until tonight.

I think now, that Out of the Ashes was his best episode so far. There was something about this episode I really liked. The librarian who couldnt read was unique and worked very well on many levels. Jeremiah's quest with his old friend from Denver was nice, but for me the heart of this episode was with Kurdy and the librarian. By far for me the best scene was when the people visiting the library realized that the Librarian couldnt read, yet was risking his life to save all those books. I think this was a very solid script and beat out Moon in Gemini for Sam Egan's script to date. It is looking like he is finally starting to settle in to writing for this series and this story --- something that takes time anyway.

I hope that there is a Season 2 so we can see him write side by side with JMS and see what comes.
"Gemini" and "Ashes" show that Egan is improving from his "The Bag" days, but I'd still take JMS anyday. And I would really love to see more JMS scripts.
As for Egan's best, I still prefer "Honor Among Thieves'" over anything else. You are right though, Recoil, Egan is settling in.
I just saw it (only my first viewing) and my initial reaction is a good one. I am not as impressed as Recoil was since what I remember about Theives ... I liked it better.

Some minor spoilers
It got me a little misty eyed and had some great dialog but it was also a bit too predictable when the readers came to the Librarian's rescue. Oh and Kurdy teaching him how to read too. Malcolm's delivery made up for a lot of that however. /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

That all said, this is still one of Egan's better eps. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif
I'm gonna go out on a limb here, but I actually think that Egan writes the Kurdy character better than JMS does. Even though I've had problems with some of Egan's episodes, he's fleshed out the Kurdy character more (I think) than any first year show has ever fleshed out a character. For example, I've watched every episode of Enterprise this year and I still don't have a clue as to what makes any of those characters tick and the more I watch the more I find that I really don't care. Anyway, I think Egan's strong point is dialogue... I'm not sure how the writing process is shared between JMS and Egan, but I think I would like it if JMS simply came up with an outline for Egan to fill-out. Maybe they do this now, I dunno.
They have to be working in tandem. This show is *very* intricately planned, and while I suspect JMS has the last say in mostly everything from the posts he's made... ugh, I dunno. TV is a very collaborative art.

For more on how Sam Egan writes, check the official Jeremiah site for an interview with him.
Confession: I am losing my passion for this show.
I was bored throughout the entire thing. Lots of speeches. So, lemme get this straight: books = good. Thank you for teaching me that.
I will agree that Kurdy is usually cool, but the episode didn't gel for me.

This is a nitpicking, I know, but if that nerd was a librarian, then wouldn't people ask him about where to find certain books all the time? Without knowing how to read, he couldn't identify them and would not be able to keep his secret long.

Did they imply he had dislexia? If so, I doubt just telling a dyslexic person to "concentrate and switch the letters around" would solve the problem so quickly and conveniently.

Next week has Theo and Thunder Mountain, so that looks like it could be good. I'm going to stick through the end of the season and see how I feel about it afterwards. To be perfectly honest, if this wasn't a JMS show I would have stopped watching by now.

IMHO, my $.02, etc and so forth.
GKarsEye, do you get The Abyss newsletter?

I sat down when I had two free hours early this week and did some research.

Have you been paying attention to all the little clues? All the little foreshadowings?

If you have, and JMS does what I think he's going to do - if he operates under the "show the gun on the mantel before you use it" law of scriptwriting like he always does, "Things Left Unsaid" could be quite what you're looking for.

I've been in the show from the beginning because of the arc that was unfolding.
channe, I don't get the newsletter. Yes, I pay attention. But one shouldn't have to sit through what one considers a boring episode just to pick up a little clue here and there. The episode's story should be the point of interest with any foreshadowing as a bonus. Besides, it's not like you need these little clues to get the arc story.

I could not help comparing this season 1 to B5 season 1, which is probably not right as they are two different shows and whatnot, but the style is so similar that i could not help it. Both have their share of non-arc stand-alone episodes. While B5 had its share of clunkers (TKO, Grail, Infection), some of the stand-alones were very good- The Purple Files, Believers. The episode where Sakai was saved by GKar was good and had the added bonus of foreshadowing the First Ones.

Jeremiah, on the other hand, is in love with its own Message too often, which bogs down the story. I dunno, maybe I should just read episode synopses and only watch arc episodes.
I'm a writer. I'm obsessed with details. That should explain my behavior. /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

The one thing I have NEVER liked about Jeremiah is that sometime the exposition is just so terrible. Markus is always sitting there moaning about how they have to make alliances or die at the hands of a bunch of old guys who shouldn't be alive, but they never do in any meaningful sort of way. They just sit there and moan about it. While it's an important detail - the foreshadowing implicit in those sentences - it's beginning to really piss me off.
See GKE I am kind of with you in that some of the episodes are AMAZING and others just dont do it for me. I *do* compare it to S1 of B5 also since the style is very similar. What keeps me interested is that I think S1 of Jeremiah so far is better than S1 of B5 the first time I watched that. So I definately think that things will get really great coming soon, and this is just the building point. S1 of B5 I liked a LOT better after seeing the series all the way through, but the first time, it didnt do too much for me, save a few episodes. Since I see S1 Jeremiah as better than S1 B5 for the first time around, I am maintaining interest.

That being said, its a valid point that one shouldnt have to have pre-knowledge of a past series the creator has done to have that kind of appreciation. The show should generate geniune interest on its own if you have never heard of B5 and JMS --- which it does, but probably not to the level it does of a past B5 viewer. I think my opinions are skewed because of past JMS experience. Perhaps a reason the show is struggling currently is because it is harder for new viewers to get into it. Maybe with a second season, and a story kicking into full swing, things will really pick up for new viewers.
Recoil, you're right. We just disagree about the B5 vs Jeremiah 1st seasons. IMO, B5's first season stand-alone eps were hit and miss. Jeremiah's stand-alone eps are pretty much all miss for me. I thought the Jason Priestly ep was a stand-alone until it turned out to not be so (and that is my favorite ep so far).

I'm also expressing frustration that I could barely keep awake through everything since Tripwire. I'm at the point now that I need Theo or Ezekiel in an episode to get me excited about it.

I now watch the show with my roommate and his girlfriend (my own gf still refuses to deal with any of my "sci-fi Star Trek crap"). They don't know jack about B5, so they are even less forgiving. I think that if it wasn't for me, they would have stopped watching it, though the chick's interest was piqued with the Quantrell ep.

I don't mean to be a sourpuss (tee-hee, what a silly word), but I wonder how many people out have become disenfranchised enough to drop it.
I agree with both you and Recoil the arc ones are great and the stand-alone ones are o.k. I also watch it with a bunch of friends (most have not watched B5 and they enjoy both kinds.) The background of the characters and moving the arc forward) though they feel the arc stories are the best.

From what JMS has just wrote, these last 3 episodes look to move the arc forward greatly and are symbolic of year 2. Let hope a year 2 is in the future, and Theo is in this weeks show. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

Are your roommate and his girlfriend enjoying the stand-alone episodes more than you?

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Are your roommate and his girlfriend enjoying the stand-alone episodes more than you?


No, our opinions are generally on the same track. The chick has only seen a couple of eps and hasn't seen the pilot or Tripwire, so she's not as into it as we are. But we all generally want arc stuff more.
Well lets hope the next 3 are arc related. My friends tend to like the arc stuff also, but they also like the character building. Most have never seen an arc intensive show, with the exception of 24. I hope JMS is right that the last 2 are just kick ass and is more symbolic of what year 2 has in store for us. Since Theo is in this Friday’s episode, it should be pretty good.
I pretty much agree with you on this issue. First a bit of background. As a rule, I don't like television SF. Most of the writing is dreadful. I watched the original Trek and enjoyed it (during its original run, which dates me a bit), but really haven't watched SF to any great extent since then, other than to sample the occasional series to confirm that things haven't improved enough to interest me in the genre. I watched B-5 from the beginning only because Harlan Ellison was involved in the series, and I knew he wouldn't have his name associated with the usual crap that passes for SF on the tube. I was not disappointed. B-5 was even better than I expected it to be, once it hit its stride about a quarter of the way through Season 1. I developed a great appreciation for Joe's writing - even to the extent of partially reviving my childhood and early adult comic book reading habit. The late and much lamented Crusade series showed promise of being even better before its untimely demise. Therefore I eagerly awaited the advent of Jeremiah, to see Joe unleashed on cable TV. In large measure I have been disappointed with this series as a whole. While the Straczynski episodes have been good to excellent, and the Barnes/Katz episode very good, other than "Thieves Honor" I have been very unimpressed with the Egan eps. I'm not familiar with his background or other work, but he is just so darned unsubtle and preachy in getting across his message. We're not stupid, and we don't need everything spelled out for us. Plus, some of his plots are a mess - particularly the one with the village of non-touchers.
I've been trying to put my finger on why (other than Egan's writing) I don't enjoy Jeremiah as much as most of the other cable shows I watch, and I believe the answer is character development. Most of the successful cable shows that get rave reviews and generate a lot of buzz have strong ensemble casts with well-developed characters (and mostly adult, subtle writing - see the comments re: Egan above). The Sopranos, Six Feet Under, Oz, Queer as Folk, The Wire (terrific show, btw- highly recommended), and even Sex and the City have several wonderful, nuanced, fully fleshed out characters. Babylon 5 and Crusade were the same - great ensemble casts. With Jeremiah we get Jeremiah and Kurdy as interesting characters among the regulars. Marcus and the Thunder Mountain crew are mostly crashingly boring. Lee Chen could become interesting, but it hasn't happened yet. Ezekial and Theo are very interesting characters, but they don't appear often enough to count. I've greatly enjoyed all of their episodes, though.
To end this ramble - Jeremiah has potential, but has been disappointing as a whole. While I largely blame Egan's writing, JMS must share the responsibility as he supposedly has total creative control. I hope the last three episodes propel us into a much more interesting (both character and story-wise) season 2.
Just to allay all your fears, here are the things we know about the LAST THREE EPS:

1. It's the "Chrysalis" of "Jeremiah." It doesn't get more arc-related than this, folks.
2. It's written by JMS.
3. JMS thinks it's killer. Tim Truman thinks it will blow our minds away (he said so on THE ABYSS guestbook).
4. There are helicopters and guns. And who has helis and guns, people?!??! Extrapolate!
I'm sure they'll be great, and I am looking forward to them. However, 3 episodes do not a season make, so my overall disappointment still holds true. Although I may be less disappointed after the final ep. /forums/images/icons/wink.gif
Scifi is adding "Dead Zone" to their Friday night line up beginning July 12. Looks like they are doing their best to tank Showtimes' Friday night line up -- Odyssey 5, Jeremiah and SG-1 retuns.

And so it goes..... /forums/images/icons/frown.gif
'dead zone' is a new show on USA network, airing sunday evenings. based (loosely) on the stephen king novel. its premiere broke cable records for ratings, and i believe the second episode also did very well... now apparently the sci-fi channel get it (about three/four weeks later) to show, no doubt in an attempt to beef up their ratings.

...and IMO its a damned fine show. great acting and directing that more than make up for some slightly lame (cliched) plots. if you haven't watched it yet i wholeheartedly recommend it!

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