Reproduction in Psi-Corps

[GKarsEye]

Throughout the series, we hear tales about the Psi-Corps forcing people to mate according to genetic compatibility for the purpose of increasing psi ability in future generations.

- During the scene where members of the rogue telepath underground takes turns telling Talia about the abuses they've suffered under the Corps, one of them talks about being abducted in the middle of the night, with the implication that she was raped.

- Alfred Bester is in an unhappy marriage arranged by the Corps because they are genetically compatible.
(Granted, there is a sufficiently logical explanation for the context of this arrangement in the novel Deadly Relations: Bester Ascendant, but I only really count what's on the screen)

I think there were others, but I don't remember, and the practice of forced breeding is mentioned throughout the series whenever the Corps is presented in a negative light.

This all leads to wonder why they can't just produce babies artificially using reproductive cells of whomever they choose. Why rape that woman in the middle of the night when they could just take some eggs and who's ever sperm they want and make babies? If we already have that tech today, surely it would be simple in 260 years.
(Again, the novel claims this is actually done, but it still doesn't explain the need for traumatic mating sessions and forced marriages).

 

[A_M_Swallow]

We may be able to genetically engineer cells but the only incubator that can take an egg from fertilization to breathing baby is the human female.

 

[Sindatur]

So this begs the question, Are they performing sex against the will of one party, or merely removing an egg, fertilizing it, and putting it back in for "incubation"? I don't remember the exact specifics of what You're talking about, only the general concept of being invaded.

 

[GKarsEye]

Ok, why not have the woman birth the Psi-Corps ordered baby but still have marriages/relationships/sex with whomever she wants?

 

[Sindatur]

Ok, why not have the woman birth the Psi-Corps ordered baby but still have marriages/relationships/sex with whomever she wants?

Why, family values of course. Can't have superior babies such as Telepaths being born out of wedlock.

 

[B5_Obsessed]

I think you're pretty close to the mark there. The Psi Corps is family. The Corps is Mother, the Corps is Father. Members are supposed to do what's best for the future of telepaths. If they won't do it willingly, then a little push is in order. Momma knows best.

 

[GKarsEye]

I would think that they would discourage normal families then. Shouldn't Bester's child's first loyaly be to the Corps when he grows up? Instead, it would be to Bester and Bester's wife.
(Of course we all know that by the time the kid grows up, if he does, there won't even be a Psi Corps)

 

[grumbler]

The issue isn't biology, but control. Rape isn't just about sex, it is also about power. The breeding program doesn't just produce telepathic babies, it demonstrates to the adult telepaths that they are part of, and subject to, a totaltarian regime that demands not just obediance but loyalty.

Sure, they could have created test tube babies and host mothers, but that wouldn't have been as effective as the Corps-arranged marriages in demonstrating how completely the Corps controlled the telepaths' lives.

 

[sleepy_shadow]

Perhaps they initially used willing hosts, until someone supercharged the breeding program... decided they wanted more/stronger telepaths than nature, technology and willing donors could offer.

It would naturally go without saying... that for a totaliatarian system like the Corps, all thresholds to using coercion would be lower.

However... it remains doubtful how the Corps could ensure that such coercively started embryos would actually be born.

Because, while human technology of Babylon 5 during 2250's would indeed be incapable of artificially hosting a growing embryo... even current technology contains a notable arsenal of older and newer techniques to abort one.

For such a practise to have actually reached its misplaced goal... the Corps would have needed to use high degrees of threat against the women involved. Which, given that is used high levels of threat against all telepaths... is not exactly a stretch.

 

[fisheggs]

I wonder if the telepathic mother /embryo/child bond is part of the reason. If a child is conditioned before birth it seems to me that it would be far more unbreakable than any other type of conditioning.

 

[Bab5nutz]

I always thought that the woman who was forcibly impregnated was not actually physically raped - ie that no physical contact between her and the father of her baby actually took place. I had always assumed that she was taken somewhere and artificially imseminated, and then put back in bed.
Of course, forcibly impregnating a woman whether it involves physical contact between her and the sperm donor or not, is rape in my book, and reducing the woman to the status of a brood mare.
I believe that there have been cases where women were drugged and raped [usually it's a date-rape situation], and the woman having no idea what happened to her until she finds out that she is pregnant.

If I remember rightly, the first case of artificial insemination ever done,[actually recorded that is] was done without the mother's knowledge. It was sometimes in the 1880s, I think. The woman was put under aneasthetic for some reason, and while she was out, the doctor inseminated her with either his own sperm, or that of a collegue. Her husband knew about the insemination, and was not upset about it - he only asked that his wife never be told.

But getting ack on topic, I imagine that most of the women in Psi-Corps would not have put up much of a fuss. They would have been conditioned from birth to do what Psi-Corps told them - whether it be to enter into an arranged marriage, or act as a surrogate mother. The woman who was forcibly impregnated in the show, did not show telepathic ability until she hit puberty, and so had probably had a 'normal' life away from the Corps before that. She had not been conditioned to have the blind obedience that most members of Psi-Corps would have had.

 

[KoshFan]

Grumbler's right. This is about power.

But somebody asked why they couldn't have sex with whoever they wanted -- and Bester, at least, does, despite his marriage.

 

[Jade Jaguar]

I agree. They dictate who reproduces with who, and force those who don't wish to comply to do it, so, it is rape. I would bet that many just did it, considering it their duty to the PsiCorps mother/father. But, I think most were allowed to have sex with whoever they wished, so long as it didn't conflict with the Corps wishes, for some reason. Whether they would punish those involved in unplanned preganacies, or just abort them, I'm not sure, but they would definitely frown on those.

 

[Bab5nutz]

Whether they would punish those involved in unplanned preganacies, or just abort them, I'm not sure, but they would definitely frown on those.

Psi-Corps probably wouldn't be happy about it. That does not mean to say that they would not be interested in the babies that result from those unplanned pregnancies. The unborn baby might not be what they planned for - it if it is a telepath, it still would be of interest to the Corps, and they would find some function for it.
Question. It would appear from the series that sometimes telepaths are born to people outside the Corps, and who have shown no previous Telepathic ability in their ancestry. What would Psi-Corps do if two of their telepaths produced a child that wasn't a telepath? If the child was a mundane? What would they do with it? Raise it in hopes that it would turn into a teep later? Quietly kill it? Abandon it to the state?

 

[GKarsEye]

The issue isn't biology, but control. Rape isn't just about sex, it is also about power. The breeding program doesn't just produce telepathic babies, it demonstrates to the adult telepaths that they are part of, and subject to, a totaltarian regime that demands not just obediance but loyalty.

Sure, they could have created test tube babies and host mothers, but that wouldn't have been as effective as the Corps-arranged marriages in demonstrating how completely the Corps controlled the telepaths' lives.

When you have a fierce, fanatical underground movement ciphoning people away from the Psi-Corps, why create unnecessary contempt. Why take already-loyal Corps members (for the sake of simplicity we can assume all members are loyal) and make them hate you?

Stalin's and Hitler's regimes were brutal and totalitarian, but they didn't just take people off the streets and beat the shit out of them for no reason. They had reasons, though those reasons were not valid and they over-reacted, but they at least had reasons.

I always thought that the woman who was forcibly impregnated was not actually physically raped - ie that no physical contact between her and the father of her baby actually took place. I had always assumed that she was taken somewhere and artificially imseminated, and then put back in bed.

Ok, that makes sense, but it still seems unnecessary. I would think any Corps member could be convinced without such violent means to bear a child.

But somebody asked why they couldn't have sex with whoever they wanted -- and Bester, at least, does, despite his marriage.

I kind of asked that, but not really- the loss of sexual freedom I was talking about wasn't forbidding sexual relations, it was forcing them, ie, arranged marriages.

 

[KoshFan]

Why take already-loyal Corps members (for the sake of simplicity we can assume all members are loyal) and make them hate you?

I'm not entirely convinced that the PsiCorps was operating at 100% logic capacity. To a certain extent, if you asked the top PsiCorps people why they did things certain ways, the most honest response might have been, "Because we can."

You said Stalin and Hitler had reasons... well, PsiCorps' rationale was probably something like Hitler's: the world is out to get us, we must do everything in our power to make ourselves stronger, whether our followers like it or not. (Of course Hitler didn't follow through with that to the extent of maximizing his war industries, but that's another story, never mind....)

 

[Sindatur]

Whether they would punish those involved in unplanned preganacies, or just abort them, I'm not sure, but they would definitely frown on those.

Psi-Corps probably wouldn't be happy about it. That does not mean to say that they would not be interested in the babies that result from those unplanned pregnancies. The unborn baby might not be what they planned for - it if it is a telepath, it still would be of interest to the Corps, and they would find some function for it.
Question. It would appear from the series that sometimes telepaths are born to people outside the Corps, and who have shown no previous Telepathic ability in their ancestry. What would Psi-Corps do if two of their telepaths produced a child that wasn't a telepath? If the child was a mundane? What would they do with it? Raise it in hopes that it would turn into a teep later? Quietly kill it? Abandon it to the state?

The problem is, you wouldn't know it wasn't a Teep, until puberty hit and they were still mundane.

 

[fisheggs]

Not really sure of that. Ivanava spoke of her being able to initiate contact with her mother when she was "a little girl" and she was P1/2. Puberty may be a cut-off date rather than the onset.

 

[Bab5nutz]

I am guessing that Ivanova had telepathic contact with her mother before her mother was detected by Psi-Corps and forced to make a choice between prison, Psi-Corps and the Sleepers.

 

[KoshFan]

Not really sure of that. Ivanava spoke of her being able to initiate contact with her mother when she was "a little girl" and she was P1/2. Puberty may be a cut-off date rather than the onset.

Yeah, it varies. According to the PsiCorps trilogy puberty's the cutoff date, while some develop as early as infancy.