Message from JMS

[Jomar]

I am on a JMS mailing list and the following message came in this morning's email:

"One thing I've always tried to do was to avoid obvious promotion; I like
talking about the writing of a show, the making of a show, what I liked (or
didn't) like about the end result...going out there and blatantly saying
"Hey,
watch our show!" is something I've never been comfortable with, only because
I
think people are smart enough to make up their own minds. If it's something
you want to see, you'll see it; if it ain't, you won't. ("If you like that
sort of thing, it's the sort of thing you'll like." Abraham Lincoln.)

One thing, however, is self-evident about the coming broadcast of The Legend
of
the Rangers: if enough people tune it, there will be a series. If enough
don't, there won't.

At conventions, I'm asked constantly when more B5 stuff will be coming down
the
pike. I've always said it's in the hands of the networks and the studios.
This time, it's the fans who have the power to make that decision. If every
B5
fan tunes in, it happens. It's really that simple and straightforward.

The rest I leave happily to your own disrection.

jms"

What more can I say?


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I always seem to be diagonally parked in a parallel universe.

 

[channe]

Here's to hoping...

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The writer's life is not meant to be a happy one. We all accept that going in. -JMS

 

[RW7427]

Thanks Jomar for your post. Let's all tune in and make JMS a happy man!

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Lorien: Who are you?
RW: The salad man.
Lorien: Why are you here?
RW: To be the salad ambassador.
Lorien: What do you want?
RW: Everyone to know the joys of salad.
Lorien: Do you have anything worth living for?
RW: Yes, my salad bars.

 

[Joe Siegler]

What's always confused me about this "everyone must tune in" mantra is that unless everyone is also a Neilsen family, then it doesn't make much difference, does it?

I still tell everyone I know to watch it, and I'm running some ads over on my Black Sabbath site at http://www.black-sabbath.com ...

However, I don't see how all of us will TRULY make a difference unless we're all hooked up into the Neilsen system.

Now with the DVD thing, I can understand it more, you can get an idea on how many people will buy it as to direct interest, but with a TV show? How do you really judge true ratings in a system where ratings are based on a select few Neilsen households?

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Joe Siegler
Webmaster - 3D Realms

 

[EntilSedai]

And with the neilsen ratings:

do they measure multiple veiwers in the same house?
how about a house with three different renters(up, down and main) and they all watch the movie in their own rooms, but only one is called for nielson, and is unaware of the interest of the other two(minimum) people in that house and then reports one person instead of three in that house?

The neilsen system is unreliable(unless it gives us what we want, namely high ratings).

But what could be a better system?

CR

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[Scorpius]

I plan on tuning in!

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"My name is Scorpius."

 

[GKarsEye]

Nice site, Joe.

SABBATH RULES!!!

Coincidentally, I'm listening to Ozzy's No Rest for the Wicked while cruising the board.

But yeah, I also never got why people say "everyone watch" and so forth if they can only track what the Nielson families watch. Also, they come up with stats that say things like, "4 million people watched ER last night." Well, how do they know? Are those just educated guesses or estimates based on demographics and past history?

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>But yeah, I also never got why people say "everyone watch" and so forth if they can only track what the Nielson families watch.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Perhaps it is just a suggestion... to watch the movie for your own enjoyment. Those participating in TV statistics can combine it with affecting the ratings.

And even those who can't watch can contribute to making "Rangers" more widely known, which definitely does affect ratings.

 

[westtim]

It is not important that YOU watch Rangers (unless you are a Nielsen family). It IS important that you spread the word about "Rangers". By spreading the word a Nielsen family may eventually be reached.

SO Tell everyony you know to tell everyone they know about Rangers!!!

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[hypatia]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EntilSedai:
And with the neilsen ratings:

do they measure multiple veiwers in the same house?
how about a house with three different renters(up, down and main) and they all watch the movie in their own rooms, but only one is called for nielson, and is unaware of the interest of the other two(minimum) people in that house and then reports one person instead of three in that house?

The neilsen system is unreliable(unless it gives us what we want, namely high ratings).

But what could be a better system?

CR

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

IIRC you are asked how many people and tvs are in your household, and each one writes down their viewing and is identified separately.


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(Spirit): “If it is too hard a lesson for you to learn, then learn this lesson:”
[Shows emaciated children at his feet.] (Ebenezer): “Are these yours?” (Spirit): “They are Man’s. They cling to me for protection from their fetters. This boy is ignorance, this girl is want. Beware them both, but most of all, beware this boy.” (Ebenezer): “Have they no refuge, no resource?” (Spirit): “Are there no prisons, are there no workhouses?”

hypatia@b5fan.b5lr.com

 

[We_R_All_Kosh]

Hey guys just a note, some of the new digital cable and satelite services send your viewing profile to Nielsen, and other similar rating formats. Later

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"What am I to call you when we are alone?"
"Kosh"
..."We are all Kosh"

 

[Hesperous]

I mentioned this before, We_R_All_Kosh, and got a "Nielsen Only" reply. Nielsen uses data to monitor 'advertising seen' vs. 'sales data' for corporate customers. This shows them the effectivness of their advertising. If the adverts during LOTR spark a sales spike, the advertisers will know that it is profitable to but time on LOTR. Although it says less about the people interested in the show, it will drive the advertising price up, giving more $$$ to the show, et. As I mentioned before, all cable boxes in all houses on, and I'll add, buy 1 product from the advertising.

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[bakana]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> and I'll add, buy 1 product from the advertising.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's gonna depend on who advertizes.

If it's IBM's ad for an OS/390 server, it could be a little expensive for most of us.

Those things go for around a $Million all tricked out...

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The 3 most common elements in the Universe:
Hydrogen, Greed, Stupidity!

 

[MartinRoth]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EntilSedai:
And with the neilsen ratings:

do they measure multiple veiwers in the same house?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It depends on which numbers you're looking at. The "main" TV ratings are based on Households, which means that if anyone in the household is watching a show, it counts the same no matter how many of them are watching. Specific demographic breakdowns are based on what individual people watch.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
how about a house with three different renters(up, down and main)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not sure about Nielsen's precise definition of a "household". But whether it was just one person involved or all three, it would be reflected in the sample balancing process.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
The neilsen system is unreliable(unless it gives us what we want, namely high ratings).
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You know, I've always wondered where this comes from. Of course it isn't perfect, but there are quite a lot of people in the media ratings industry who spend a whole lot of time trying to make sure it's as reliable as possible.

While I don't know all of the details of Nielsen's methodology, I do know a whole lot about what Arbitron does on the radio side in order to get accredited by the MRC, and I know Nielsen is required to do similar things.

This isn't simply "pick some people and count up what they watch." There's a whole lot of effort that goes into procedures for sampling the population to find participants that will accurately represent the population. And then there's a complicated weighting process to adjust for differences between the demographic and geographic profiles of the participants and of the population. Unless you have some idea of how the whole thing is done, saying that it's "unreliable" is pretty unfair.

(DISCLAIMER: I am an employee of Arbitron Inc., so you could make a case that I'm biased, even though I'm not.

Also, these views are my own and don't represent the company and blah blah blah et cetera.)


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-- Marty

[This message has been edited by MartinRoth (edited December 13, 2001).]

 

[MartinRoth]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GKarsEye:
But yeah, I also never got why people say "everyone watch" and so forth if they can only track what the Nielson families watch. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hush. You're destroying the illusion.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
Also, they come up with stats that say things like, "4 million people watched ER last night." Well, how do they know? Are those just educated guesses or estimates based on demographics and past history?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The overnight numbers are based on the data from set-top viewing meters installed in the largest TV markets across the country, using a complex random sampling system to select the participants. The meters actually "dial in" to Nielsen over each night and report what the household watched the previous day. Through a sophisticated weighting scheme, these numbers are grossed up to match the population data.



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-- Marty

 

[MartinRoth]

Sorry about the multiple replies, but there's a lot of stuff in here for me to pontificate about.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by We_R_All_Kosh:

Hey guys just a note, some of the new digital cable and satelite services send your viewing profile to Nielsen, and other similar rating formats. Later

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That data isn't (yet, anyway) incorporated into the main ratings service...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hesperous:
If the adverts during LOTR spark a sales spike, the advertisers will know that it is profitable to but time on LOTR
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unfortunately, numbers like these often aren't helpful, since the advertisers are generally placing spots on multiple shows. So the traditional ratings are still really the main driver...


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-- Marty

 

[bakana]

There are times when the advertisers place commercials only on particular shows or in particular cities.

It's part of the "Market Research" the Advertisers do.
It serves Two purposes.
It allows them to judge how well audiences respond to particular commercials before spending a lot of money using them nationwide.
It allows them to test how well the Audiences of particular Shows will respond to particular products.

Both pieces of information are Very important to an advertiser planning to spend Millions of dollars running a commercial.

Advertising breakfast cereal on a show that attracts the sort of people who swing by a fast food joint for sausage/biscuit is a waste of money.

They want to Know who we all are and what we like to spend money on.
Heck, Babylon 5 could even be a Problem because it attracts such a diverse audience.

I'd bet on tech products as sponsers once they start to get some sense of who we are.
It's probably the one thing the largest proportion of the B5 audience has in common.

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The 3 most common elements in the Universe:
Hydrogen, Greed, Stupidity!

 

[MartinRoth]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bakana:
There are times when the advertisers place commercials only on particular shows or in particular cities.

It's part of the "Market Research" the Advertisers do.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

True, it does happen at times. But I don't think it's really all that common at this point, perhaps largely due to the fact that it's not a very precise way of measuring anything. You'd have to find a way to control for other factors.

There are other market research tools available as well, such as focus groups and "qualitative" purchasing data from a company like Scarborough Research, which don't have the same disadvantages.

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-- Marty

 

[GeoKuutio]

Well.. All you who lives in USA, you have opportunity to really affect things. So, me and many of my friends are giving full support to you all (at least in some way). Now we just sit here and wait til' the big day... We are counting on you!

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Logical thinking - Perfect weapon

 

[Technomage Roanna]

We'll do our best!!!

Ro

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A ship in a port is safe, but that's not what ships are for.

Rear Admiral Grace Murray Hopper