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Marcus and Neroon
- Thread starter Nancy
- Start date
KoshFan
Regular
Yes, the infamous "Gray 17 is Missing." To me, the saving graces for this episode, aside from the fighting pike duel, were the real zingers of lines near the end:
Marcus's whole speech about who the Rangers are: "We walk in the dark places no others will enter..."
Garibaldi's line about having a really bad day.
Neroon tells Marcus that he's learned a lesson, and Marcus asks if he can find a less painful method of learning in the future. Neroon walks off laughing, the first time he even so much as cracks a smile, I believe... and rather poignantly setting up his final lesson, dying for Delenn.
Marcus's whole speech about who the Rangers are: "We walk in the dark places no others will enter..."
Garibaldi's line about having a really bad day.
Neroon tells Marcus that he's learned a lesson, and Marcus asks if he can find a less painful method of learning in the future. Neroon walks off laughing, the first time he even so much as cracks a smile, I believe... and rather poignantly setting up his final lesson, dying for Delenn.
D
**DONOTDELETE**
Guest
I absolutely agree that Garibaldi's half of the story is sorely lacking. I read in a post by Joe D. at the official B5 site that JMS got the flue while writing that episode and when he recovered, he had forgotten exactly what his original intentions were and himself found the end results with the Zarg sorely lacking. Marcus' half of the story is absolutely essential viewing. Marcus not only proves his own loyalty beyond a shadow of doubt but also teaches Naroon a valuable lesson about Humans. And, yes, the scene where Naroon laughs at Marcus' comment is an absolute classic. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
M
Mike G
Guest
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I think the episode should have been given a title more in keeping with the inauguration of Delenn, as that was by far the stronger storyline.
[/quote]
Part of the Delenn/Marcus story is that the gray council is gone, thus "grey" is missing. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I think the episode should have been given a title more in keeping with the inauguration of Delenn, as that was by far the stronger storyline.
[/quote]
Part of the Delenn/Marcus story is that the gray council is gone, thus "grey" is missing. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Joseph DeMartino
Moderator
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Marcus not only proves his own loyalty beyond a shadow of doubt but also teaches Naroon a valuable lesson about Humans.
[/quote]
Neroon also learns a valuable lesson about the Rangers, and about Delenn. It isn't just that Marcus proves himself more of a Minbari than Neroon because he is willing to die for a Minbari while Neroon is preparing to kill one if necessary (breaking Valen's most sacred law.) It is that Marcus is willing to die for Delenn.
Neroon here draws a personal line for himself. Despite the breaking of the council he will not abandon all of Valen's teachings. He will not deliberately kill another Minbari. And he gains great respect for Delenn, her Rangers, and their mission. All of this is vitally important to the remainder of the story, especially to Neroon's actions (and attitudes) in S4.
Spoilers for S4: (And what the heck happened to the spoiler code? I thought that was fixed?)
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He would not have turned against his Warrior Caste superiors and conspired with Delenn were it not for their deliberate killing of the Religious Caste refugees they drove from the northern cities and his trust in her. Marcus is right, Neroon really does have an epiphany in this episode. The long road to the StarFire wheel begins in "Grey 17 is Missing", and the later events only really make sense in terms of the confrontation in this episode. Zarg be damned, "Grey 17" is classic episode for the "B" story alone.
Regards,
Joe
Marcus not only proves his own loyalty beyond a shadow of doubt but also teaches Naroon a valuable lesson about Humans.
[/quote]
Neroon also learns a valuable lesson about the Rangers, and about Delenn. It isn't just that Marcus proves himself more of a Minbari than Neroon because he is willing to die for a Minbari while Neroon is preparing to kill one if necessary (breaking Valen's most sacred law.) It is that Marcus is willing to die for Delenn.
Neroon here draws a personal line for himself. Despite the breaking of the council he will not abandon all of Valen's teachings. He will not deliberately kill another Minbari. And he gains great respect for Delenn, her Rangers, and their mission. All of this is vitally important to the remainder of the story, especially to Neroon's actions (and attitudes) in S4.
Spoilers for S4: (And what the heck happened to the spoiler code? I thought that was fixed?)
10
9
8
7
6
5
4
3
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He would not have turned against his Warrior Caste superiors and conspired with Delenn were it not for their deliberate killing of the Religious Caste refugees they drove from the northern cities and his trust in her. Marcus is right, Neroon really does have an epiphany in this episode. The long road to the StarFire wheel begins in "Grey 17 is Missing", and the later events only really make sense in terms of the confrontation in this episode. Zarg be damned, "Grey 17" is classic episode for the "B" story alone.
Regards,
Joe
D
**DONOTDELETE**
Guest
Joe, were I capable of remembering the many details as clearly as you, that is precisely what I would have said. So, essentially, you stole my answer. Shame... /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Oatley1
Beyond the rim
Yep,
The Marcus / Neroon B-story was the only thing worth watching in the episode. Though the beginning with the doll and Garabaldi was very weird. The first time I watched it, I thought the episode was heading towards a semi-horror story. I guess I was only half-right (with the 'horror' being the Zarg!)
The Marcus / Neroon B-story was the only thing worth watching in the episode. Though the beginning with the doll and Garabaldi was very weird. The first time I watched it, I thought the episode was heading towards a semi-horror story. I guess I was only half-right (with the 'horror' being the Zarg!)
