Kingdom of Heaven

[KoshFan]

I saw a TV spot for this upcoming movie, and my friend insisted that I'd like it. Anyone know anything? Orlando Bloom, Jeremy Irons, and Liam Neeson star, which should be impressive; Ridley Scott's directing, which is a good sign. But if it really is a religious war story I'm cautious. I go to movies to have fun, not get into theological debates with the characters on screen...

 

[PillowRock]

Since when has anything to do with the Crusades involved theological debates? (And for the most part, that includes the actual Crusaders.)

I've only seen the ads / previews on TV. It looks like the Crusades are the backdrop just because it was the conflict that they could think of that involved the largest armies of people dressed in the type of armor that most people think of in terms of "knights in shining armor".

 

[colonyearth]

It's another historical epic, a la Gladiator. This time from the man who gave us Gladiator, which bodes well for it.

It does admit to couching modern issues in its historical context. It is about the Muslim seige to retake Jerusalem years after the Crusades had put it into the hands of Christians. Specifically, it's about one Knight (Bloom) who's asked by his idealistic and dieing father (Neeson) to protect the King in Jerusalem and if the king dies to defend the people. The rest of the film is about Bloom's character attempting to do the right thing while keeping true to his vow amidst the turmoil and religious and political strife of the time. His father taught him that Christians and Muslims should live in peace, side by side and that that was the dream...the "Kingdom of Heaven."

It actually looks to be a good film, possibly even a blockbuster like Gladiator was. Perhaps, even an Oscar nom. I just hope it's better than the other big historic epic attempts since Gladiator (Troy, Alexander, etc.) The only epic sized films that have met and even gone way beyond Gladiator's promise for new epic features were the LOTR films -- but they weren't historical.

I hope it does really well and is a great film, because I believe in the epic, and if one doesn't do well soon, Hollywood will get the wrong idea that they aren't popular and stop doing them again, when in actuality, it's not that people don't like or want epic films, they just want good ones.

Anyway, MHO.

CE

 

[Oatley1]

From what I understand, this is the long delayed in development hell project that Mr California Governor had been trying for 10 years to get made. He came close in the middle of 2001, and then came the 9/11 attacks, which put the project on hold due to the content of the film. The last I had heard was that he decided not to persue it, and then it wandered around until Ridley Scott attached himself to it.

I don't think it is going to get into any theological debates - the most it will do is portray both faiths (Christian and Islam) as being bad for your health, and that the devout followers of both as being crazy, unscrupulous and devoid of any redeeming features. The only exceptions will probably be Orlando Bloom's character and, of course, Saladin.

For some balance, it would be nice if they include Baldwin IV, King of Jerusalem, who died 2 years before the siege of Jerusalem. We shouldn't see the character (unless the screenwriters do some fancy historical reinvention), but it would have been cool to see the Leper King in action.

 

[Vonbloodbath]

it would have been cool to see the Leper King in action.

I'm pretty sure that he might be; certainly an early review I read mentioned Lepers, and I think that the guy you briefly see wearing a silver mask might be doing so to hide his Leprosy.

VB

 

[Sigma]

Just returned from cinema and i like it a lot. Not the greatest of all time, but good enough. If you have seen "Gladiator", i think you know what to expect in it. Typical Ridley Scott with all the good and bad. If i had to rate it i would give it 4/5 ("Gladiator" in my eyes is also 4/5 movie).

And Orlando Bloom can act. He shined in this movie.

 

[Vonbloodbath]

yeah, I enjoyed it. Infact the only real fault I could level at it was once or twice something (cinematography/score) reminded me faintly of Black Hawk Down or Gladiator. But it's probably just because I've seen them a lot (and both are RS movies too).

But yeah, Bloom can act, which surprised me. And Jeremy Irons played it understated, which surprised (and impressed) me even more!

And there were a lot of people in it that I recognised from other movies / shows who, again, surprised/impressed:

Kevin McKidd (Cooper from Dog Soldiers)
Alexander Siddig (Dr Bashir from DS9)

I'm also sure I saw the omnipresent Ewan "Spud" Bremner very briefly at the start, but he's not billed on IMDB so I could have been imagining it. And Edward Norton was King Baldwin - it was driving me mental through the film, as I couldn't place the voice.

VB

 

[GKarsEye]

Haven't seen it but every review I'm reading is mostly negative. Bloom is criticised with not being a powerful enough screen presence to handle the role, amongst other things.

Either the market or just myself is burnt out with the "historical epic" thing, I think.

 

[Vonbloodbath]

Ah, well my disdain of Movie critics has reached the point where, If I'm swithering over a movie, and it gets bad reviews, I'm actually more likely to go see, to make my own mind up!

Of course, if I think it looks bad AND it gets bad reviews, well that's a different matter (XXX2 - I'm looking at you!).

VB

 

[Sigma]

Haven't seen it but every review I'm reading is mostly negative. Bloom is criticised with not being a powerful enough screen presence to handle the role, amongst other things.

I read Ebert (i think he is the most famous) reviews and he gave it 3.5/4. His reviews are full of spoilers so little warning, i can't imagine people actually reading his reviews before they go to see a movie. Thank god i read only couple of paragraphs.

Bloom is good but don't expect Russel Crowe performance.

 

[channe]

I liked it. The war-details were accurate, if not the actual story; i.e., Baldwin was supposed to be dead by the time Balian would have arrived in Jerusalem, and the war would have already begun.

But, yeah. I liked it.

There were a lot of elves. I spotted Celeborn (Martin Csokas) and I swear one of them was also the guy who plays Haldir.

And who else just totally did not place Alexander Siddig until the credits? Oh, my God.

 

[kin_of_zathras]

I enjoyed it quite a bit. Much better than other recent efforts like King Arthur, Troy, etc.

It was weird, after overdosing on LOTR, to see similar seige scenes. I've always had doubts about Orlando's acting ability, but after this movie, I've decided he's not crap. He seems to use the same delivery in every part he plays - and is definitely no Johnny Depp. In fact, at some points he seemed like he was doing King Theoden.

As someone who is a neutral in this whole East/West thing, its nice to see Muslims portrayed as something other than terrorists.

Great acting as usual by Liam Neeson(sp?) and Jeremy Irons. Its always nice to see SFTV alumni get more exposure.

One thing I forget, was Siddig's character the one Orli gave the horse to, at the beginning?

 

[Vonbloodbath]

Yes.

 

[Sinclair]

I ended up seeing this yesterday and I enjoyed it. I don't know why it has gotten so many bad reviews.

Even if some parts are historically inaccurate it was still nicely done and flowed pretty well. I don't really know much about that era and wasn't aware Baldwin was supposed to have already died.

I had no idea Edward Norton was in it until this thread. I thought Orlando Bloom had a pretty good performance. I was surprised to see Alexander Siddig in it as I don't think I've ever seen him in anything but DS9 and TNG. Of all the performances I thought Jeremey Irons' was the best.

 

[Alluveal]

I enjoyed it immensely, liking it far better than Gladiator. To quote Ebert:

Few people will be capable of looking at "Kingdom of Heaven" objectively. I have been invited by both Muslims and Christians to view the movie with them so they can point out its shortcomings. When you've made both sides angry, you may have done something right.

What Scott seems to be suggesting, I think, is that most Christians and Muslims might be able to coexist peacefully if it were not for the extremists on both sides. This may explain why the movie has displeased the very sorts of Muslims and Christians who will take moderation as an affront.

Have to agree with him.