Just what is the best non arc episode?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I was thinking, just te other day, that all anyone ever talks about when discussing B5 is just how great the arc was and thought to myself "There was more to B5 than just The Shadow War, Psi Corp etc" and began to think just what was the best non B5 ep.

For me, it HAS to be Passing Through Gethsemene.

If you want happy resloutions, DON'T watch this.

If you want an episode that questions religion, personel guilt, sin, redemption and revenge than this is the one episode that haunts long after the final credits have rolled.

"We live for The One...We die for The One"


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[Ninja_Squirrel]

As usual with B5, there are too many excellent ones to choose a favorite, but you're right Passing Through Gethsemane is an awesome, daring stand-alone episode, especially coming from an athiest writer.

Other honorable mentions include...
Deathwalker
Confessions and Lamentations (the Markab episode)

Woops, I take that back; there aren't that many stand-alone episodes to start with, and most of the best episodes are arc episodes. So, make PthruG and C&L my 2-way tie for favorite and Deathwalker my runner-up.

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An Old Egyptian Blessing: May God stand between you and harm in all the empty places that you must walk.

Thoughts & prayers to soldiers fighting overseas and to their families.

 

[hypatia]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Shadow War:
For me, it HAS to be Passing Through Gethsemene.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You took the words right out of my mouth.

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"The Bible is a book: it is a good book, but is is not the only book" - Inherit the Wind
* Quote is from memory, please advise if incorrect/incomplete*

"I do not believe that the same God who
has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."—Galileo

hypatia@b5fan.b5lr.com

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

My faverout was in season 3 I think. I am not sure as to it's title but I remeber that it basically showed the characters in a more regular day for them. It really allowed for humour and romance between John & Delenn.
My faverout scene was when an ISN lady made Delenn cry as it was so moving. Also, how do you get into the chat room linked on this site?

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* "That hardly seems likely, does it?" >>>^<<<

 

[A_Ranger]

There are many excellent non-arc episdoes...

"Believers" Season 1 w/ the kid whose parents won't let Franklin operate

"A View from the Gallery" Season 5 w/ the 2 maintenance guys.

I hate it when people just like the arc eps. Some of the best tv storytelling has come from non-arcs. Hell, some of my favorites are non-arcs

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We're all born as molecules in the hearts of a billion stars, molecules that do not understand politics, policies and differences. In a billion years we, foolish molecules forget who we are and where we came from. Desperate acts of ego. We give ourselves names, fight over lines on maps. And pretend our light is better than everyone else's. The flame reminds us of the piece of those stars that live inside us. A spark that tells us: you should know better. The flame also reminds us that life is precious, as each flame is unique. When it goes out, it's gone forever. And there will never be another quite like it

 

[Shaal Mayan]

Mine is probably confessions and lamantations

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[GKarsEye]

Intersections in Real Time

Ok, ok, I know what you're gonna say: it's an arc episode. Well, I disagree. Yes, it involved Sheridan and the war against Clarke, but they could have just replaced this entire episode with a minute of dialogue where Sheridan says, "They tried to get me to apologise and change sides but it didn't work." The fact that they went into the dynamic between Sheridan and his interrogator, the pshychological rammifications of the situation, and the Sheridan's personal struggle, makes this more of a stand alone character ep than an arc ep.

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."

 

[Ninja_Squirrel]

Intersections in Real Time is one of those love or hate episodes; there doesn't seem to be much in between. It's the only episode that has only one plot, only one setting, and only one main character involved (not counting Delenn who was just a vision, not a physical presence), so it is also the most unique episode of B5.

However, I'm in the hate category. I prefer the multi-plot episodes and the ensemble casting. Also, when compared to ST:TNG's sixth season episode "Chains of Command, Part 2" in which Picard gets tortured by Gul Macet, Intersections just doesn't stand up.

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An Old Egyptian Blessing: May God stand between you and harm in all the empty places that you must walk.

Thoughts & prayers to soldiers fighting overseas and to their families.

 

[Recoil]

I think mine is:

'Illusion of Truth'

And while some may argue that it's an arc episode I'm not convinced it totally is. Basically to me it speaks out as to how propaganda can be spread and just how powerful the media can be. Sure it deals with Clarke and Earthgov, but to me an arc episode is one that has to be seen or you miss out on where the arc is going. I don't think IoT was essential to the arc, but it was a neat filler episode.

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'I don't believe in the no-win scenario' - JTK

 

[Recoil]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ninja_Squirrel:
Intersections in Real Time is one of those love or hate episodes; there doesn't seem to be much in between. It's the only episode that has only one plot, only one setting, and only one main character involved (not counting Delenn who was just a vision, not a physical presence), so it is also the most unique episode of B5.

However, I'm in the hate category. I prefer the multi-plot episodes and the ensemble casting. Also, when compared to ST:TNG's sixth season episode "Chains of Command, Part 2" in which Picard gets tortured by Gul Macet, Intersections just doesn't stand up.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't remember that particular ST:TNG ep, but I have to agree with GKarsEye that 'Intersections' is fantastic. The thing that I think MAKES the episode is that it isn't so much physical tourture, but mental. They are trying to pick him apart slowly, get him to redefine 'truth', and using more propaganda to sway him. There is a lot going on other than the physical discomfort he is in. I also liked it because it is totally different than any other episode because it DOES only deal with the 1 character and it is very un-nerving.

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'I don't believe in the no-win scenario' - JTK

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ninja_Squirrel:
Intersections in Real Time is one of those love or hate episodes; there doesn't seem to be much in between. It's the only episode that has only one plot, only one setting, and only one main character involved (not counting Delenn who was just a vision, not a physical presence), so it is also the most unique episode of B5.

However, I'm in the hate category. I prefer the multi-plot episodes and the ensemble casting. Also, when compared to ST:TNG's sixth season episode "Chains of Command, Part 2" in which Picard gets tortured by Gul Macet, Intersections just doesn't stand up.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't agree. Patrick stewart is a fine actor. However in that episode he just went over the top. And it was drawn out. IORT was a lot better. Well written, understated and subtle in it's progression, it was a much more powerfull piece of television than Jean L Picard screaming.


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* "That hardly seems likely, does it?" >>>^<<<

 

[Jomar]

All the above deserve to be on this list but I just couldn't make up my mind until I suddenly thought of Day of the Dead.

Even though I totally hated Rebo and Zooty, I thought it was a great episode.

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I always seem to be diagonally parked in a parallel universe.

 

[GKarsEye]

"There... are... four lights!"

That was a good Trek ep. Both eps were cool. Those methods of torture and interrogation were taken from things done in real life. There's no need to declare which is better or worse.

I guess I just enjoy watching people suffer.

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."

 

[Recoil]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GKarsEye:


I guess I just enjoy watching people suffer.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Then have some people over and force them to watch 'Glitter'. A friend of mine runs this website, www.shacknews.com, and last night he posted a link to a MSNBC news article that said CIA operatives are showing 'Glitter' to Al Queda POWs in Afganistan. Funny stuff.

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'I don't believe in the no-win scenario' - JTK

[This message has been edited by Recoil (edited January 03, 2002).]

 

[GKarsEye]

Now now, Recoil, even the mighty GKarsEye has his limits.

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."

 

[A_Ranger]

You cannot compare episodes from two different shows. Intersections in Real Time was what was appropriate for that story. I have never seen that Star Trek episode so I don't know what happens. But I"ll assume what happened in that ep was appropriate for that story. Just because you may prefer physical torture to mental torture does not make either episode better.

Besides, writing a story where one is physicaly tortured is nothing compared to writing an intelligent piece where one is mentally jacked around. If you don't agree, then why don't you go right up to JMS's face and tell him that.

Anyway... that's besides the point. You cannot say one ep is better than the other. Different stories with different characters that have to undergo DIFFERENT THINGS. What Sheridan went through was what the character needed to go through. What Pikard went through was what he needed to go through(assuming ST writers and execs know what they're doing..no offense to anyone)

If you want to say that you prefer Coc to IRT, then that would be correct. But when you say one is better than the other, you're trying to compare an apple to an orange

------------------
We're all born as molecules in the hearts of a billion stars, molecules that do not understand politics, policies and differences. In a billion years we, foolish molecules forget who we are and where we came from. Desperate acts of ego. We give ourselves names, fight over lines on maps. And pretend our light is better than everyone else's. The flame reminds us of the piece of those stars that live inside us. A spark that tells us: you should know better. The flame also reminds us that life is precious, as each flame is unique. When it goes out, it's gone forever. And there will never be another quite like it

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Sure...But it also completley destroys the Soul Hunter's belief system. A system we know is based on the soul as being an imortal entity only if THEY capture them at the momment of death. Surely these guys know a thing or two about death.

No heaven,no hell.

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[Recoil]

I'm not going to get into a B5 religious debate here. Hell real life religion is far out of my scope for debating. But you should keep the following mind:

1) Minbari believe that souls are reborn in later generations.
2) The existance of Soul Hunters stealing people's 'Souls' seems to at least verify that their belief is possible at some level.

Does 'Day of the Dead' really PROVE the Minbari are wrong? I don't think 'Day of the Dead' PROVES anything of the sort. Here is why:

* The day of the dead happens every 200 years. So where are all these dead people hanging out in the meantime? Heaven? Hell? Some great pool of souls? Back into the Universe itself? It is not stated or answered.
* Whoever said that the Minbari souls get reborn RIGHT AWAY? It is possible the people we saw in 'Day of the Dead' are merely ones who haven't been reborn into later generations yet. Perhaps when they die their souls go somewhere for a time until they are reborn, or needed later. Where could they go? Heaven? Hell? Some great pool of souls? Back into the Universe itself? Again, not stated or answered, but anything is possible.

It is very possible, as with ANY religious belief that either option is possible, that BOTH options are possible, or that NEITHER is actually the truth. As with religion, truth is not what is important, it is the belief.

All that being said, I dont think that episode proves the Minbari wrong. I dont think soul hunters prove Minbari right. Both could be the reality, or neither. Just one of the mysteries of the Universe in B5.


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'I don't believe in the no-win scenario' - JTK

 

[Kribu]

Also, all of the dead visitors in Day of the Dead had died relatively recently, within a few years or in the case of Zoe, no more than 20 years ago.

It could be entirely possible, as speculated above, that those souls hadn't been born again into someone else. Perhaps because they had unfinished business to take care of?

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"Isn't the universe an amazing place? I wouldn't live anywhere else." - G'Kar, B5: Rangers
Kribu's Lounge | kribu@ranger.b5lr.com

 

[GKarsEye]

Of course, it's also quite possible that everybody's wrong, and that there are no "souls."

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."