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JMS on the subject of Enterprise

Asked by a poster:

>A thought crossed my mind: would you or have you ever considered submitting story ideas to the Trek people?

1) I don't write freelance.

2) I can't write with mittens on.

jms


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"Draal gave Zathras list of things not to say. This was one. No, not good. Not supposed to mention 'one'... or 'THE one'... Mmmm. You never heard that."
 
Freelancing is a bitch.

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Channe, Freelance Writer Extraordinaire and The Next JMS
--
B5 Synchroninity of the Day: I just found out that the new dorm I'm living in next year has been named Breen Hall.
 
I would welcome JMS with open arms if he kicked that Berman prick off the set and took over.

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Don't sweat the petty things.
Don't pet the sweaty things.

[This message has been edited by tnkewnke (edited August 08, 2001).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> I would welcome JMS with open arms if he kicked that Berman prick off the set and took over. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Amen.

If JMS got the budget and popularity that Berman gets with ST, we couldn't stop him from coming up with epic stories. Not that he doesn't do it now, of course...

I like to think of TV series as using the principle of induction: 1)get them to tune in for the first time and 2) keep them tuned for each episode. The ST arena has no problem with either, but only because of blind loyalty and dissemenation throughout modern culture, not because of quality. Unfortunately, B5 has a tougher time with the first, being they can't get nearly as many viewers at first because it's not as well known as others. The second is rather an advantage for B5, as the quality is very high. Still, though, induction requires that an initial and incremental cases be proved true. B5 doesn't quite have the initial part yet, but it is rising.

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Sheridan: Are you trying to cheer me up?
Ivanova: No sir, wouldn't dream of it.
Sheridan: Good, I hate being cheered up. It's depressing.
Ivanova: So in that case we're all going to die horrible, painful, lingering deaths.
Sheridan: Thank you, I feel so much better now.
 
Same here. Modern Trek has name recognition, and that's what it's built on. B5 banks on repeat business, satisfying a need and then luring people back with the promise of more.

And I agree: Freelancing really does suck. For some reason, banging one's head on the monitor on spec ain't as cool as the end product....
wink.gif


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Joe Medina (neargrai@aol.com)

"...that which are, we are"
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris Springob:
Didn't JMS start out with a freelance script for He-Man?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're presuming that's at odds with his statement?

JMS said he doesn't do it, not that he never did. Freelancing scripts is a way to get in the door, certainly not preferable to being a showrunner, which is the professional status he's attained at this point in his career.

Ro

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I have no surviving
enemies. At all.

Galen



[This message has been edited by Technomage Roanna (edited August 12, 2001).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris Springob:
Didn't JMS start out with a freelance script for He-Man?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>He might also have done a paper route when he was younger. Would you be surprised if he one day said "I don't do paper routes"?
 
I'm not exactly sure what the purpose of that quote was for, but it really doesn't tell me anything other than the fact that JMS has a beef with trek. That's not exactly earth shattering news, or even recent news for that matter. I also hear that Pepsi has something against Coca-Cola, I wonder why.

Now if you would have dug-up a JMS quote about how interested he is in Enterprise, then that would have been interesting.

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The Revolution Will Not Be Televised.

[This message has been edited by PsionTen (edited August 13, 2001).]
 
You didn't tick me off. My only point is that trotting out another JMS quote where he disses ST is like being asked out by a fat chick -- it happens all the time. I don't even know how newsworthy it is at this point, since its like saying that the sky is blue, water is wet, cigarettes cause cancer and JMS hates trek.

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The Revolution Will Not Be Televised.
 
Oh well. I tried to 'splain a-myself.

I think you're being defensive and equating this to a "B5 RULES, STAR TREK SUX" post.

It's not.

I wouldn't say jms spends an inordinate amount of time dissing Star Trek, anyhow. He was asked if he would ever consider writing spec scripts for Trek, and his response humorously depicted the plight of Trek staff writers, most evident on Voyager.

Hopefully, the culture at "Enterprise" will be to loosen the chains on the writers and allow some more freedom for character development and for episodes that don't end with the dreaded "reset button".

I can see specific strengths and weaknesses in the shows and movies I watch, and yet I can still form an overall opinion as to whther I like it or not.

As a fan/viewer of both, the quote felt relevant to me and it speaks to the frustration of both the viewers of the show who are fed scraps of drama over lengthy seven year periods, to the long list of writers who have departed on unfriendly terms with B&B because they weren't allowed to *write*.

I want Enterprise to be good. Just like I want Rangers to be good.

Neither is guaranteed to be, of course, but I hope they're both as good as we the fans want them to be, and that they both become long running series (on different nights, please) for the next several years.


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"Draal gave Zathras list of things not to say. This was one. No, not good. Not supposed to mention 'one'... or 'THE one'... Mmmm. You never heard that."
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>My only point is that trotting out another JMS quote where he disses ST is like being asked out by a fat chick -- it happens all the time. I don't even know how newsworthy it is at this point, since its like saying that the sky is blue, water is wet, cigarettes cause cancer and JMS hates trek. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, and just as an aside:

I've never been asked out by a fat chick (I don't know if that's good or bad). The sky is sometimes grey and sometimes it's black with little bright dots in it, water is not wet when it's frozen, not everyone who smokes cigarettes gets cancer, and jms does not "hate Trek".

The only Trek he had issues with, and for understandable reasons, was DS9. He took the high road although he felt that he was the injured party, but you can't begrudge him a little comment now and then. In fact, his list of all-time favorite shows includes TOS.

Not everything is as cut and dry as it seems sometimes.

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"Draal gave Zathras list of things not to say. This was one. No, not good. Not supposed to mention 'one'... or 'THE one'... Mmmm. You never heard that."
 
Actually, I thought you were the one being defensive. First off, your quote doesn't even get into JMS's opinion of Enterprise, which is what you'd expect from the title of the thread. And second, everyone already knows what JMS thinks about trek ... I was only pointing out how redundant it was ... nothing new and nothing about about 'Enterprise' at all. And i think that I'm intelligent enough to recognize a 'Star Trek v. B5' thread when I see it ... you were the one who posted the latest "trek sucks" post from JMS.

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The Revolution Will Not Be Televised.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> I've never been asked out by a fat chick (I don't know if that's good or bad). The sky is sometimes grey and sometimes it's black with little bright dots in it, water is not wet when it's frozen, not everyone who smokes cigarettes gets cancer, and jms does not "hate Trek".

The only Trek he had issues with, and for understandable reasons, was DS9. He took the high road although he felt that he was the injured party, but you can't begrudge him a little comment now and then. In fact, his list of all-time favorite shows includes TOS.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, I never said that the sky wasn't grey or that it wasn't black with white dots. I never said that water was not wet when it is frozen. I never said that everyone who smokes get cancer. Just as I'm sure that you're not saying that someone would be wrong if they did say that the sky was blue, water was wet or that smoking causes cancer. But then again, perception is everything ... isn't it?

As far as JMS goes, I have heard him say some positve comments on TOS. I have heard him say some very negative things about DS9, the Trek Franchise, Berman and Braga. It doesn't take a psychologists to see that he's bitter. I'm not even saying that he doesn't have a right to be bitter, but if he felt that bad about DS9 then he should have sued.

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The Revolution Will Not Be Televised.

[This message has been edited by PsionTen (edited August 13, 2001).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PsionTen:
I'm not exactly sure what the purpose of that quote was for, but it really doesn't tell me anything other than the fact that JMS has a beef with trek.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Uhh.. no. It tell us he has a beef with how Paramount runs Trek (puting mittens on the writers). He doesn't have much problem with Trek itself, and considers himself a TOS fan. He's also freinds with a number of people who've been involved
people who've been involved with Trek in the recent years.

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> but if he felt that bad about DS9 then he should have sued. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope. JMS has been asked about this lots of times. He said that he could have Either Sued OR he could work to get Babylon 5 on the air.

But, he didn't have the time or energy to do both.

He chose to make Babylon 5 and make it a Better Show.

Revenge takes many forms.
cool.gif


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Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?
 
[All sentences in italics are jms quotes]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PsionTen:
As far as JMS goes, I have heard him say some positve comments on TOS.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Original Star Trek: it doesn't get much better than that, folks. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>I have heard him say some very negative things about DS9, the Trek Franchise,<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Maybe they diserved it? <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Berman and Braga.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>As for Berman:

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: I do not believe that either Berman or Pillar ever saw the B5 material. Further, that if they were asked to rip anything off, I think that they would outright refuse to do so. These are honorable men.

I have never seen him make any comment on Braga whatsoever. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>It doesn't take a psychologists to see that he's bitter.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>No... Just a few half remebered statements and a lot of negative assumptions to fill in the blank spots...

Here's what it comes down to for me, in relation to ST: If I had a show in which I *knew* it would be renewed each season, that had a name going in that guaranteed an audience, that had a huge empire behind it, I'd take every opportunity to USE that venue to push stories to the wall, to do experimental stories, controversial stories, stories with teeth and claws and passion because in most situations. They say, "Oh, you can't risk that, you'll lose the audience." But the ST audience is a loyal one, and the Empire will make money off it regardless, so why not take it to the wall? If you have this terrific fast car, why keep it in the garage? To me, it's a catalog of missed opportunities. But that's just my subjective POV, your mileage may vary. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>I'm not even saying that he doesn't have a right to be bitter, but if he felt that bad about DS9 then he should have sued.[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>He noted that suing would likely have stopped both B5 and DS9 from being produced, and that was not what he wanted. His main problem with DS9 was that it was being used as yet another pawn in Paramount's attempts to kill B5, and if you dig up his actual posts about the similarites, you'll see that they are there. Not because the DS9 people couldn't come up with something decent on their own, but becase Paramount wanted them similar enough to confuse the casual viewer:

"I've heard about this really cool show... about a space station... and they have this big war against the powerful aliens."

"I think I saw that on Star Trek or something."

"Yeah, probably. I'll have to remember to start watching that."

[This message has been edited by drakh (edited August 13, 2001).]
 
I think the best hope for Enterprise is Scot Bakula. Not his acting, which is pretty good, but the fact that he has some modicum of control as part of his contract.

The hope is that he would be too bored acting in a voyager-like series and may use whatever sway he has to force the studio/producers to allow the writters to be creative.

It ain't much but it's hope.

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Bus

"Yeah, we could start our own game where people throw ducks at balloons and nothing's the way it seems."-Homer
 
Good point. Another good reason for hope. The more I think about it the more I actually look forward to see if they can pull the show off or not.

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Not many fishes left in the sea. Not many fishes, just Londo and me.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Uhh.. no. It tell us he has a beef with how Paramount runs Trek (puting mittens on the writers). He doesn't have much problem with Trek itself, and considers himself a TOS fan. He's also freinds with a number of people who've been involved
people who've been involved with Trek in the recent years. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Uhh.. you say tomato and I say tomatoe. Trek is Paramount. If he thinks Paramount (i.e. Trek) stole his idea for B5, then I'd say that that qualifies as "having a problem."


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> Nope. JMS has been asked about this lots of times. He said that he could have Either Sued OR he could work to get Babylon 5 on the air.

But, he didn't have the time or energy to do both.

He chose to make Babylon 5 and make it a Better Show.

Revenge takes many forms
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, i know that whenever I have to sue someone that I must stop my occupation and devote every waking minute to filing depositions and interviewing potential witnesses and preping my case for ... waitaminute, what am I thinking .... don't they have professionals whose job it is to do stuff like that? I don't mean to be crass, but the courts are there to handle things like this. For whatever reason, he chose not to go that route. He may have had better things to do or he may have just had a bad case. My point is that he could have done something and he did not.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> Maybe they diserved it? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Whatever.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Here's what it comes down to for me, in relation to ST: If I had a show in which I *knew* it would be renewed each season, that had a name going in that guaranteed an audience, that had a huge empire behind it, I'd take every opportunity to USE that venue to push stories to the wall, to do experimental stories, controversial stories, stories with teeth and claws and passion because in most situations. They say, "Oh, you can't risk that, you'll lose the audience." But the ST audience is a loyal one, and the Empire will make money off it regardless, so why not take it to the wall? If you have this terrific fast car, why keep it in the garage? To me, it's a catalog of missed opportunities. But that's just my subjective POV, your mileage may vary. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's one opinion, here's another:

If you're a talented writer, it's relatively easy to write an original story all your own. You can make your charaters say whatever you want and you can make plots that go wherever you want ... its your creation. But for most working writers, it don't work like that. I'm a reporter and I get paid to write the news. I am not free to write in whatever style I want, I'm not even free to construct the story that I want. I have an editor who changes my work at will. Would my stuff be better if I were able to write what I want? I think so. For established works, there are ALWAYS certain rules and regulations that you have to follow. JMS works in comics and he should know that Marvel has all kinds of restrictions that they place on their characters. Even the Centauri/Psi-Corp/Technomage trilogies had to follow an outline that JMS imposed on the writers. Frankly, it only makes sense to me that TREK would be restrictive... the damn series has been around for a long time, its immensly popular, there have been many different versions of the show...etc. If were the head of trek my overriding concern wouldn't be with "pushing the envelope" it would simply be to make the fans happy. Trek has been sucessful in this at times and they have sucked at this at times.

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The Revolution Will Not Be Televised.
 

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