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Galactica Season 4 (Spoilers Within)

I agree with GKE.

Belief in God in itself is not something you can attribute to any part of the political spectrum... even within the boundaries of mainstream religion.

While I may hold conservative values with regard to my own personal morality (and I'm by no means a high achiever when it comes to my own standards), my faith does not afford me the luxury of forcing those views on anyone.

Christians aren't called to preach morality or righteousness, they are called to spread the message of salvation.... and not just by blindly preaching... but by representing the values of Jesus in public. What people do in response to that is between them, their conscience and God.

I would seriously argue that the 1st century church had a lot more in common with left wing politics and socialism... than it does with conservatism of today. Take a look at the first couple of chapters of Acts... they were living communally... sharing everything with one another as each had need - your Senator McCarthy would have had an aneurism at their antics! I believe my faith's "code of conduct" means not rejecting or condemning people on the basis of nationality, race, or moral attitude. It means genuinely demonstrating love to those who might be called unloveable. It means helping the poor... all this not because it earns you a front row seat in heaven... but just because it's an appropriate response to the one you believed died to save you from your own unpayable debt.

As for conservatism... what good is it if a man says with his lips that "Jesus loves you and died to save you for your sins"... and then proceeds to blow another man's country into dust with wave upon wave of bombs? Whatever his words may say, his actions are quite the opposite frokm them.

and... forcing people who don't subscribe to your belief system into obeying it by law... is not a Kingdom value in my book. People can't earn salvation by their actions... so what's the point in forcing someone to follow a strong moral code if at the end of the day they aren't going to accept the free gift of God's grace that's on the table? The apostle Paul would be going ballistic at some of these "holy joes'" he'd label them "super apostles".
 
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You also need to remember that ecomical attitudes and liberal attitudes are not mutually exclusive.

There are right wing liberals (e.g, the UK Lib Dems)
There are left wing authoritarians (e.g. China)

Even limiting things to left/right wing and authoritarian/libertarian is a dangerous game because there is a lot of scope between the two extremes on both the economic and social value scale.


Back to BSG now anybody?????
 
Abolitionism was an extreme, radical left-wing movement. And it was a Christian movement.

Ghandi was radical, and religious.

We have to think about these things outside of the narrow constructs we're used to hearing and seeing in our own country, during our own times, often through the filter of our awful mass media.

Even the Catholic church takes stances that are all across the political map as we understand it today: anti-choice but anti-war; sexually conservative but liberal in terms of social services.

Sure some lefties are atheists- I am one such person. But so are a lot of conservatives- libertarians, military hawks, etc.

There are so many different ways to believe in god(s) and practice religion- don't let the right-wing noisemakers convince you that theres is the only way.

Edit: sorry, Galahad, didn't know you'd already responded while I was multi-taskingly writing mine.
 
Allllll right. This Baltar thing. Not sure. A part of me still thinks he's a weasly little sucker, but this last episode almost had ME singing hippy cult songs and praising the one true God. Someone slap me.

Anyway.

Starbuck. It's sad that she could really be right on a lot of this stuff and has no support. Then again, she's going to lead mankind to their end, so that's not a good sign, is it.

Chief. I'm glad Baltar calmed him down. I was freaking out thinking he'd turn on his son and do something Biblical. The bald look is different. I liked him in this episode, truth be told. I don't know what it is about the cylons, but some of them flock to Baltar like bees to honey. First 6, then D'Anna, then Tory, now Chief. Maybe Baltar unknowingly helped to create the cylons with his uber-science skillz, but time will surely tell. He has some "Cylon come running'" cologne, or he's a big piece in the working cog of the cylon existence.

Tory is kind of annoying me now. She's gone too far, too fast. I guess they needed to set one up to fall first. I'm certain now (more than ever) it's her.

I got quite a kick out of watching Anders rough Leoben up a bit. I kept thinking, "cylon on cylon! YEAH!" (Cue in WWF music.) Leoben's a big, fat, liar, imho. If he could see peoples' destiny and the truth, I think he'd be able to tell Anders is more than "just a sports icon with a DESTINY," but that he's one of the final frickin' five. Maybe I'm jumping too much to a conclusion on that one. We'll see.

Why are moments passed over so often in this show. It's my biggest gripe. Leoben is brought aboard and he's taken to an area where there are lots of people. Athena is there. "Oh, hey, Eight, you traitorous wench." or something snide. It's so un-Leobenish that he doesn't throw some esoteric nonsense out toward her. Missed chances. It makes me want to jump in and write an episode. Just a pet peeve. I'll get over it. (dramatic sigh)

I will say that I do secretly hope to see another hot make-out scene between Starbuck and Leoben. It's so Luke/Laura General Hospital in a nasty way. I can't help myself.

Back to Baltar. I think what bothers me the most about this messiah thing are the followers. That's what bothered me about Byron, too. It wasn't Byron himself, it was all the creepy telepaths that sang creepy songs and stared at people and tilted their heads back while moving in circles and getting high on love deal. The Baltar followers are exactly the same in my mind and that annoys the frack out of me. Maybe new converts are ALL this way (IRL, etc) and I just need to cram it in my cramhole. :)

Anyway, off to bed.

Liked Helo in this episode, too.
 
Alluveal said:
Allllll right. This Baltar thing. Not sure. A part of me still thinks he's a weasly little sucker, but this last episode almost had ME singing hippy cult songs and praising the one true God. Someone slap me.
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The scene of Baltar and Tyrol at the end was the first time that Baltar's story so far this season didn't feel too heavy handed to me; it was the first time I was really actually interested in what's going on with Baltar.

Tory is kind of annoying me now. She's gone too far, too fast. I guess they needed to set one up to fall first. I'm certain now (more than ever) it's her.
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Yeah, I think that pretty much sums up my thoughts on Tory too: too fast.

Why are moments passed over so often in this show. It's my biggest gripe. Leoben is brought aboard and he's taken to an area where there are lots of people. Athena is there. "Oh, hey, Eight, you traitorous wench." or something snide. It's so un-Leobenish that he doesn't throw some esoteric nonsense out toward her. Missed chances. It makes me want to jump in and write an episode. Just a pet peeve. I'll get over it. (dramatic sigh)
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Yeah, I was waiting for something, anything from Athena to come out of the fact that she's a cylon and Leoben was now there. He could've told her "Boomer betrayed your model" or something to bring her into this part of the story beyond being what seems to be her standing around being a miscellaneous other right along side the rest of the miscellaneous crew of the Demetrius.

Back to Baltar. I think what bothers me the most about this messiah thing are the followers. That's what bothered me about Byron, too. It wasn't Byron himself, it was all the creepy telepaths that sang creepy songs and stared at people and tilted their heads back while moving in circles and getting high on love deal. The Baltar followers are exactly the same in my mind and that annoys the frack out of me. Maybe new converts are ALL this way (IRL, etc) and I just need to cram it in my cramhole. :)
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There's the part where such cult members are supposed to be creepy, and while I can accept that academically, it's much harder to accept practically. It's enough to make one want to holler out, "Oh for frak's sake!"
 
The guy that plays the Chief is my favorite actor on the show. Just wanted to give him the ol' thumbs up here.

Leoben has to be on track. It's the only way to explain Starbuck. He has to be right about her somehow.
 
I love the show, and there have been some brilliant performances lately, as well as completely unexpected stuff.

I must admit I'm less than fascinated by the Baltar-as-prophet storyline, but at least we no longer have to suffer the queasy quad of season 3! Although the Lee Adama/Starbuck kiss had me cringing.

The Chief seems to be doing a Garibaldi. The more he loses his hair, the crazier he gets.
 
Speaking of that, I wonder how exactly his job has changed since Adama told him to report for reasignment.
 
He looked like he was a random maintenance tech in the last episode, so pretty far from being a crew chief on the hanger deck.
 
Well, I guess it looked like he was just maintenance, but it's not like he hasn't worked the maintenance on various fighters and whatnot before so it could easily (it did to me at least) look like he was just doing the non-yelling-at-others part of his previous job. But you're probably right.
 
Here is something to think about.The people of Kobol fled thousands of years ago. What if what left Kobol only thought they were humans, what if the people who fled Kobol were themselves machines, who either through accident or design forgot that they were human. I keep thinking of that phrase it has happened before and it will happen again. remember the piles of skulls on Kobol? Now as to what went to Earth Maybe the surviving Humans who knows it ties in. Then there is the fact that both the Cylons and the Colonial both have the final 5 in common. For the Colonials, they are gods and revered and for the Cylons the final 5 in a way revered as godlike. Now the Cylons have had their own civil war/machine rebellion as well. There is a coming together of both human and Cylons, a convergence,what will they find on Earth probably the whats left of the the 13th tribe fallen into barbarism. The final 4 that are known don't know consciencely what their purpose is, i suspect that when the 5 is discovered it will unlock that information, 5th is the key and probably the answer to all the important questions.:cool:
 
Garovorkin said:
Here is something to think about.The people of Kobol fled thousands of years ago. What if what left Kobol only thought they were humans, what if the people who fled Kobol were themselves machines, who either through accident or design forgot that they were human. I keep thinking of that phrase it has happened before and it will happen again. remember the piles of skulls on Kobol? Now as to what went to Earth Maybe the surviving Humans who knows it ties in. Then there is the fact that both the Cylons and the Colonial both have the final 5 in common. For the Colonials, they are gods and revered and for the Cylons the final 5 in a way revered as godlike. Now the Cylons have had their own civil war/machine rebellion as well. There is a coming together of both human and Cylons, a convergence,what will they find on Earth probably the whats left of the the 13th tribe fallen into barbarism. The final 4 that are known don't know consciencely what their purpose is, i suspect that when the 5 is discovered it will unlock that information, 5th is the key and probably the answer to all the important questions.:cool:
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That sounds like both a bunch of crazy pot talk and the most logical possibility for a conclusion yet. Seriously. There's something about themselves that both humans and cylons don't know, and it has to tie in to all that religious business.
 
That theory has promise, but here is where it loses me. The original Cylons from the war (before the "truce") were a bunch of tin cans (i.e. they looked like the Cylons from original BSG). And...that was only what? 30-40 years before the BSG series current timeline?

So thousands of years ago back before the colonies and the Kobol stuff, how could there have been human Cylons when they just came about recently before the current BSG timeline?

All that stuff has me pretty fuzzy....
 
The whole machine possibility came to me as I began to piece other things together. let's 'look at the fact that the Cylons have the ability to project, to see what they want to see like a simulation, then when Laura Roslyn started have these visions and on Kobol when she say the opera house as it had been thousands of years ago I started to wonder about some things Also I put it together with what the fact that Baltar has a projection of 6 living in his head and sometimes a projection of himself which began to the question of whether he was machine , then there was Apollo when he was drifting in space imagining himself in a lake, Starbuck's projection with Leoben before her apparent demise. though there are 12 models but all of these people are candidates for being machines, then I remembered the skulls on Kobol and the Phrase it has Happened before and it will happen again, history repeating itself all these separate things and other things add up to this possibility. I think the purpose of the final 5 is to bring about a convergence of both Cylon and Colonial. I believe that they are literally the shepherds of not only the Colonials but of the Cylons as well. Their whole Journey has almost preprogrammed feel to it.:cool:
 
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