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Franchise Rights

Who ultimately holds the rights to any B5 content produced? Is it WB?
Does JMS have any say? He should, considering hes the CREATOR and all.

CSR

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Sorry - things don't work that way in the entertainment world. Any writer that gets into the television business expecting to own his own work at the end of the day is either too idealistic, or seriously smoking something.

EDIT: He's said at numerous times that WB "owns the franchise, lock, stock, and barrel."

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The writer's life is not meant to be a happy one. We all accept that going in. -JMS

[This message has been edited by channe (edited December 16, 2001).]
 
yea i was noticing that..WB on my book says WE OWN,.,, WB...i can't believe it.

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I really don't think I am PMSing..
 
Not sure what the arrangment is but normally if it is a 'work for hire', the company owns and a co-authorship is a pre-contractual arrangment. Not sure about elements of the program - for instance, is SciCor a copyright? or 'scenes a faire'?

Gary

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None of the major studios would ever produce anything they didn't own, unless the property is already seen as valuable. It avoids rights disputes holding up production, and entitels them to the majority of the profits should the property turn out to be a success.

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"Where? I don't see any guys; Just perverts!" (hear it)
-- Akane Tendo, "School is a Battlefield!", Ranma 1/2

drakh@spamcop.net
 
isn't the word we are looking for called "SYNDICATION">???

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I really don't think I am PMSing..
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>isn't the word we are looking for called "SYNDICATION">???<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Er, no. Syndication merely refers to sale of a show to a syndicate, which in turn re-sells the reruns as a package to individual stations. It is also applied (less accurately) to selling a rerun package directly to a cable network like Sci-Fi. Syndication has nothing to do with the underlying rights to the property.

And yes, the studio always owns the film or the TV show or whatever. While creators certainly deserve more than they generally get, this isn't as unfair as some people make it out to be. Warner Bros. spent around one million dollars to produce each and every B5 episode, and around three times as much for each TV movie. They wouldn't have done this if they didn't expect to make a tidy profit on the series in the future, and they help ensure that by owning the thing. Without the studio, Babylon 5 (or Titanic or Pearl Harbor) is just a pile of typed paper.

Meanwhile Warner Bros. paid JMS a producer's fee and a fee for each of his scripts while the series was in production and he (theoretically) participates in the profits. (Of course, with the legendary Hollywood accounting methods, there rarely are any profits - at least according to the studio books.)

In fairness, the studios flat-out lose money on shows that get cancelled in less than three years, because there is almost no chance of selling them into syndication (the original Trek and Crusade being exceptions to this rule.) Since most series are produced at a deficit (the per episode cost exceeds the fee that the network pays - B5 and Crusade were exceptions) the only way the studio can make a dime on them is to sell the reruns during or after the network run.

So they have to make up the losses from the shows that can't be syndicated on the series that do succeed. If they weren't doing that, they couldn't afford to stay in the TV business and pay for series like Babylon 5.

The only exception to all of this that I'm aware of is the Star Wars series. Seeing no potential for toys (and little for SF in general) Fox allowed George Lucas to retain many of the ancillary rights to the Star Wars property in return for a promise to keep the costs down. Lucas made so much on those toys that he was able to finance production of The Empire Strikes Back himself, and only struck a distribution deal with Fox.

Empire and Return made so much in turn that I think he was able to buy back all or most of the Star Wars rights from the studio, so he pretty much controls the franchise at this point. (Which is the main reason that the original trilogy is not available on DVD - Fox would love to put it out, but Lucasfilm has said, "No".)

Because he has so much control over the franchise, and because Lucasfilm Ltd. uses real-world accounting methods, folks who were promised "points" from the Star Wars films were actually paid their share of the profits, and the series has created more than one millionaire.

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division

joseph-demartino@att.net
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino:
Er, no.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ummm...yes...

wb owns the 'show'.
sci fi has the syndication rights.



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This is my "be nice to Antony week"...WARNING~~MOOD SWING MAY HAPPEN WEEK AFTER NEXT...depending on the astrological projection of the hormonal balance.
 
Sci-Fi has a contract that lets it broadcast the show. It doesn't own any "rights" per se. And the original question was "who owns the rights to B5, Warner Bros. or JMS?"

Sci-Fi doesn't even enter into that equation. If they owned the syndication rights they'd be able to re-sell the show to another cable network or local stations, etc. They don't and they can't. Also the arrangement with Sci-Fi isn't "syndication" at all, strictly speaking. The word is used by analogy, because we're talking about airing a show after its original run - which in the pre-cable days always meant being sold to local stations by a syndicator like Viacom.

To say that B5 was in "syndication" on TNT or Sci-Fi is a shorthand way of saying they are carrying the show after its initial run, but it is inaccurate shorthand. Technically, B5 (like ST:TNG, DS9, Xena and Hercules) was in syndication in its first run. None of the shows named ever aired on a national broadcast network, but were sold on a station-by-station basis around the country, even in their original runs.

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division

joseph-demartino@att.net
 
I believe the term syndication is also applied to radio shows. Howard Stern, Rush Limbaugh, and Opie and Anthony, for example, syndicate their programs, so that they can be broadcast throughout the US.

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."
 
OK JOE...


laugh.gif


LET ME REPHRASE...

Sci fi has the right for syndication.

And if you SIGN a contract then you have certain rights..

now, as for what the hell syndication means..

syndicate - TO SELL a program, series, etc. to a number of radio or tv stations. syndication n.

(Websters New World Dictionary p. 1358)

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This is my "be nice to Antony week"...WARNING~~MOOD SWING MAY HAPPEN WEEK AFTER NEXT...depending on the astrological projection of the hormonal balance.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Howard Stern, Rush Limbaugh, and Opie and Anthony, for example, syndicate their programs, so that they can be broadcast throughout the US.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Right, first-run syndication, just like in television. The distinction is, once again, between a syndicate selling the show to individual stations market-by-market, and a network that has affiliates or wholly-owned stations in various markets, which pretty much automatically air its shows at uniform times.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>And if you SIGN a contract then you have certain rights...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK.
smile.gif
You have rights under the contract. If I sign a contract to rent a house I have certain rights (and obligations) under that contract. Which doesn't mean that I own the house. And that, again, was the original question - which doesn't have anything at all to do with ...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>...what the hell syndication means...

syndicate (SIN-de-KATE, v.) - TO SELL a program, series, etc. to a number of radio or tv stations. syndication n.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

laugh.gif





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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division

joseph-demartino@att.net
 
Ooooh, Joe and Sassy are havin' a spat...

Ro pops a BIG bowl of popcorn and conjures a hovering platform to sit on while she enjoys the entertainment.
cool.gif




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A ship in a port is safe, but that's not what ships are for.

Rear Admiral Grace Murray Hopper
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino:
Right, first-run syndication, just like in television. The distinction is, once again, between a syndicate selling the show to individual stations market-by-market, and a network that has affiliates or wholly-owned stations in various markets, which pretty much automatically air its shows at uniform times.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[pedant mode]
Actually, the radio situation is generally something of a hybrid, since the major radio syndicators (Infinity/CBS/Viacom, Premiere/Clear Channel, ABC/Disney) also own tons of stations.

Howard and O&A, in particular, are run primarily on Infinity-owned stations, which means that Corporate HQ can (and do) also specify the air times...
[/pedant mode]


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-- Marty
 
Marty:

I wasn't going to go there because it seemed to unnecessarily complicate something that was only offered as an analogy anyway. (Sort of like trying to describe PTEN, in which many of the stations were part owners of the network and - never mind...)

But that's no reason that you couldn't.
smile.gif


Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division

joseph-demartino@att.net
 

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