creation of the rangers

Drobline · Nov 6, 2001

this is something that quite possibly has been touched upon. numberous times.. but naive as a person wandering into the middle of a movie i'll ask anyway (i am, as you can see, relatively new to this board/site). this is something i've been wondering about ever since the airing of "war without end," and with the imminent release of the telemovie, the question begs to be asked.
has jms ever discussed the possibility of doing an episode in some series of some involving the events that transpired on babylon 4 during valen's time, a thousand years ago? or perhaps a telemovie? one would think from a storytelling standpoint, the possibilities are appreciably palpable. michael o'hare would have to be roped into reprising his role as valen, but somehow i suspect he'd enjoy such an opportunity (unless i'm wrong, which i could be).
anyway, considering that valen created the rangers (right?) wouldn't it be nice if we got to see the events that unfolded to create this "elite fighting force"? food for thought, i suppose.

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channe · Nov 6, 2001

I'm sure, if we get a series, we'll find out tons about the creation of the Rangers...

That material was covered in Katherine Drennan's novel To Dream In The City of Sorrows, unless I'm mistaken.

I honestly think that that's a part of B5 JMS is going to leave very well alone. I get the general feeling that he wants to tell other stories within the B5 universe, not the stories involved with Babylon 5 itself. For example, Crusade and Rangers.

There are rumors that if there was to be a B5 big-screen movie, it would have to do with the Telepath War.

Babylon 5 was essentially a snapshot. And to go back into the story of Valen would be to go into a place where we've all been before.

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In our sleep, pain which cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, until, in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom through the grace of God.
-Aeschylus

Jade Jaguar · Nov 6, 2001

You are not the first one to have that idea. Others can give you more detail, but there was a fan a few years back who hounded JMS with this idea, to the point where JMS said he never would or could do it, for fear of being sued for stealing the idea from the fan. It would make a good story though!

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You're speaking treason! Olivia De Havilland as Maid Marian
Fluently! Errol Flynn as Robin Hood
You're talking treason! Olivia De Havilland as Arabella Bishop
I trust I'm not obscure. Errol Flynn as Dr. Peter Blood

Pallindromes of the month: Snug was I, ere I saw guns.
Doom an evil deed, liven a mood.

AngelSummers · Nov 6, 2001

I have no doubt that the history of the Rangers will be touched on if there is a series following the Telemovie. After all, if the show is going to cater to new fans, some prior introduction will no doubt be done probably in the pilot. I'll bet everybody gets an introduction again in the pilot. In "Midnight on the firing line" everybody was introduced well and in the

*yawn* "War Zone" the same thing happened again in which they introdued the new captain as well as the plot DESPITE the B5: A Call to Arms introductions.

In any case, knowing JMS, he'll indulge in plenty of history lessons soon.

Hell, how many times have we heard of the Earth Minbari War, Dilgar War, previous Shadow Wars in the background of the series? Maybe this time, he is doing exactly what you all just said by showing the life of a typical ranger crew while taking as back and forth the Ranger history on the way. With luck, we may even get to meet Sinclair again if Liandra gets to close to the Time Rift in Sector 14 and gets propelled 1000years into the past.

But I hope not. No show with Time travel has ever been simple, only mind-boggling and it would be very Trekkish of JMS if he does that. The whole premise of Enterprise is already going to be built on time travel. Better not do that or JMS might meet the same fate as the late Gene Rodenberry: his work usurped by franchise and idiots ruin his legacy.

touch wood of course

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May you all be well and happy, free from suffering, free from sickness.

bakana · Nov 6, 2001

Some of Valen's story was covered in the DC Comic series "In Valen's Name". Not much, just enough to tie up a couple dangling threads.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> > Also, I heard WAY back that there was a possible third movie in
> the plans that might touch on the Valen/Sinclair story?

There have been discussions, but nothing firm as of this time.
jms

blocked) asks:
Will we ever learn more about Kosh I and why he was more sympathetic to the Second Ones than Kosh II, or is the Vorlons' place in the saga over?

That's a good question, and one of the things I'd like to do (but which I can't see any way to do in the series) is the whole story of who Kosh was, how he got to be who and what he was, why he felt the way he did toward humans (part of it was knowing Valen) ... maybe this will have to go into one of the novels.
jms

Carl Cantarella <105030.3700@compuserve.com> asks:
Would you ever consider doing something like this with the Valen character somewhere down the line for television, such as in "Crusade"?

I think there may be some way to tell the story of Valen down the road in one form or another.
jms

I'm responding to this here because this individual ALSO sent me the note quoted here using my email account.

>How about a one or half season series about valen and the shadow war 1000 years ago.
>Valen could come into the series after a 1 or 2 episodes, after we see how
>the minbari were left with no central HQ.

I'm responding to this here because it seems no matter how many times I say it, there's always Somebody Who Doesn't Get the Message.

How many times are we going to have to go through this?

1) DO NOT USE MY EMAIL FOR ANYTHING OTHER THAN PERSONAL ITEMS THAT CANNOT BE DISCUSSED ON THE NETS.

Do not COPY me on your public messages here, do not SEND me questions about how fast the White Star can fly vs. the Enterprise, do NOT use my email to ask about the frickin' DVDS, and

2) DO NOT SEND ME STORY IDEAS *EVER* FOR ANY REASON, ESPECIALLY IN EMAIL!

Understand that my being here is always a precarious compromise. If somebody sends me a story idea, and it happens to be anywhere NEAR what I am thinking about doing or might do in the future, it puts me at SUBSTANTIAL LEGAL RISK of being sued.

Think it's an unnecessary concern? Ask Marion Zimmer Bradley, who lost a whole NOVEL due to EXACTLY this sort of thing.

Because this has been posted here, you can be absolutely sure that I will now not do ANYTHING like this, at ANY time.

Let me be plain: this crap endangers my ability to participate on ANY and ALL net discussions. I've made only one really hard and fast rule, one request of the fans: DO NOT DO THIS TO ME. Do not put me in this position.

Do NOT abuse the email privilege, and do NOT send me story ideas.

Because eventually, if it continues, I will have to withdraw totally from all nets because it's not worth the legal danger, and it's not worth having to slog through ten thousand emails asking me about B5 weapons systems and the like. (And ever since the reruns began on SFC, I've been FLOODED with such emails.)

I apologize for having to be loud about this, but this really has to stop. If necessary I'll close this email account and use only a private one.

There's a FAQ with this info. If you're on this newsgroup, and you haven't read it, you should check it out, and save my blood pressure from going up a notch or two.

Rant finished now. Returning to Nice Guy mode. Please adjust your chairs to their upright and locked position.
jms

(jmsatb5@aol.com)
(all message content (c) 2000 by synthetic worlds, ltd., permission to reprint specifically denied to SFX Magazine)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As far as I know, that's about all JMS has said on the subject.

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The 3 most common elements in the Universe:
Hydrogen, Greed, Stupidity!

drakh · Nov 6, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by AngelSummers:
I'll bet everybody gets an introduction again in the pilot.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The TV movie is the pilot. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>In "Midnight on the firing line" everybody was introduced well and in the

*yawn* "War Zone" the same thing happened again in which they introdued the new captain as well as the plot DESPITE the B5: A Call to Arms introductions.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>War Zone doesn't count, since it was TNT's idea, not jms' (who wanted to jump right into the story with Racing the Night). Since there's no reason to belive Sci-Fi won't start of the series (should it be ordered) with a repeat of the TV Movie, I doubt there'll be much repeated exposition in the first ep of the series (there might be some to establish any changes though). <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>JMS might meet the same fate as the late Gene Rodenberry: his work usurped by franchise and idiots ruin his legacy.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Do a little reading on the subject. There were plenty of good people in line to take over Trek. But GR chased them away by treating them like garbage.

[This message has been edited by drakh (edited November 06, 2001).]

GKarsEye · Nov 6, 2001

I read once that JMS wouldn't film anything extensive about Valen because no humans would be involved.

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."

KoshN · Nov 6, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by bakana:

blocked) asks:
Will we ever learn more about Kosh I and why he was more sympathetic to the Second Ones than Kosh II, or is the Vorlons' place in the saga over?

That's a good question, and one of the things I'd like to do (but which I can't see any way to do in the series) is the whole story of who Kosh was, how he got to be who and what he was, why he felt the way he did toward humans (part of it was knowing Valen) ... maybe this will have to go into one of the novels.
jms

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now THAT'S something I'd LOVE to see, any way I can get it! TV, Novels, whatever.

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KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

Galahad · Nov 6, 2001

Just nit-picking here.

The Liandra can't pass through the rift in Sector 14 as Delenn stated that "that door is closed."

Of course there could be other doors, and other means of time travel but the wardrobe has well and truly closed now... time to enter Narnia from some other angle.

I honestly do believe the Linadra has encountered the "space amoeba's" before, I don't think the "ghost" crews are dead, I think that they are existing in the dimension or plain of existence that the "space-amoeba's" come from. I reckon the Grey Council know of the previous encounter and are keeping mum about it.

Just my guesswork, could be totally out but it's healthy to stretch the imagination!

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"We Live for the One. We die for the One!"

Joseph DeMartino · Nov 6, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>In "Midnight on the firing line" everybody was introduced well and in the *yawn* "War Zone" the same thing happened again in which they introdued the new captain as well as the plot DESPITE the B5: A Call to Arms introductions.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Midnight" had to reintroduce everyone because - contrary to the original plan - it aired nearly a year after The Gathering, instead of the following week. The original plan for the debut of Crusade was to air A Call to Arms at 8 PM, followed by the first episode ("Racing the Night") at 10 PM on the same night. Then TNT revised the episodes, postponed the series debut and decided against re-airing ACtA before the series debut, so we ended up with the exposition-heavy "War Zone."

In the event TNT actually ended up airing A Call to Arms on the same night as "War Zone" but immediately after the Crusade debut - which makes no sense at all.

If there is a Rangers series several months down the road, Sci-Fi will probably have the good sense to air the pilot film the night before the series debut (as TNT aired In the Beginning and The Gathering the night before the B5 reruns debuted) or the same night, depending on the timeslot the series gets. They aren't as odd as Warner Bros., nor as stupid as TNT about these matters.

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net

GaribaldisHair · Nov 7, 2001

Hi everyone,

been lurking here for a while, thought I would finally show my face and put in my $0.02.

It is a while since I read To Dream in the City of Sorrows (cf: Channe's earlier post), but my recollection is that it actually covered the period after his appointment to the Minbari homeworld rather than his time as Valen.

Just thought I'd mention it

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DaveC
"The lunch has already started,
it is too late for the sandwiches to vote"

KoshN · Nov 7, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by GaribaldisHair:
Hi everyone,

been lurking here for a while, thought I would finally show my face and put in my $0.02.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cool name. I've been wondering where GaribaldisHair went.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by GaribaldisHair:

It is a while since I read To Dream in the City of Sorrows (cf: Channe's earlier post), but my recollection is that it actually covered the period after his appointment to the Minbari homeworld rather than his time as Valen.

Just thought I'd mention it

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Right, for Sinclair it covers ~early 2259 to either early 2260 or mid 2260 (prior to the events of War Without End), because we first see Marcus in Matters of Honor (S3E1), but I think we first see him use his fighting pike in Messenges from Earth (S3E8).

For Marcus, the book takes place in the present six days after Grey 17 is Missing (S3E19), but covers his introduction to the Rangers and his Ranger training.

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KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

RW7427 · Nov 7, 2001

I think it would be interesting to see a little of the founding of the Rangers and their history prior to the Earth/Minbari War. Knowing some of that can help understand the Rangers more and better appreicate what they were called to do.

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The Whitestar Salad Bar, the galaxy's best place for parties.

Drobline · Nov 8, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by channe:
I honestly think that that's a part of B5 JMS is going to leave very well alone. I get the general feeling that he wants to tell other stories within the B5 universe, not the stories involved with Babylon 5 itself. For example, Crusade and Rangers.

Babylon 5 was essentially a snapshot. And to go back into the story of Valen would be to go into a place where we've all been before.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yeah, i basically agree with you, that stories specifically visited by the babylon 5 series shouldn't simply be reused. i just don't think the entire valen storyline and the events that transpired during the war 1000 years ago/the creation of the rangers/the creation of the grey counsel has been addressed in a direct episode.. showing the actual events as they happen. sure, vague descriptions are everywhere, but so are vague descriptions of stories explored by the rangers. true i'm not all that well versed in the book/comic book franchise, but i don't think those mediums really count in terms of "going where we've been before."
i guess what i'm saying is that i see the stories revolving around valen the same way you see stories having to do with the rangers and crusade. "other stories within the b5 universe." i'm not suggesting that an entire series be created (babylon 4: the previous best hope for minbari-kind!). it would indeed be tough to pull off a television series in the absence of humans beings altogether.. but like i said before, it's just great fodder for storytelling, and not doing at least something with it would feel like missing out.

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AngelSummers · Nov 9, 2001

I wonder if JMS has ever thought on writing an actual book for his other unproduced scripts or stories? We all know he produces fantastic scripts but what about books?

Just a thought. I mean, a book tells so much more than a TV show. Frankly I think remakes of books like Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings are going to be dissapointing in the eye of hardcore fans (yes, I, a 19 year old uni student read Harry Potter) because there's only so much they can tell in a 3 hour movie at best out of a book. I would love to read a book by JMS.

On another note, as Drobline said, its hard to make a movie completely without humans so a series of Valen's time is probably out. But I do think a series should be done on Londo's 15year regin as Emperor. Not all 15 years of course but until the point of his death. From what I read, he did his best to hamper Drakh efforts but he couldn't and Vir had to do most of the work. That would be nice to see. A tortured soul forced to see his world spiral into destruction.

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May you all be well and happy, free from suffering, free from sickness.

drakh · Nov 9, 2001

I wouldn't count on seeing the initial days of the Rangers, though I can't rule it out completely. If it were to be done, it'd probably not be during the early part of the series. After all, we didn't get the lowdown on the Minbari war until the 4th season.

However, I have no doubts that we'll see the not-too-infrequent reference/flashback to the doings of the Rangers of old though - There's a whole millennium of history to explore (something even the trailer emphasizes).

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You are not entitled to your own opinion. You are only entitled to your own informed opinion.
-- Harlan Ellison quoting Gustave Flaubert

drakh@spamcop.net

bakana · Nov 9, 2001

JMS Chronology:
There are two novels and a short story collection in the list.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Partial Career Chronology:

1976-79: Writer for 'Mutual Radio Theater'.

1979-81: Entertainment editor/reviewer for KSDO-AM Newsradio in San Diego ( half hour weekly).

1981-91: A scriptwriter columnist for Writer's Digest.

1982: Wrote "Complete Book of Scriptwriting" published by Writers Digest Books. Is still a university standard on scriptwritting.

1984: Staff writer on animated 'He-Man and the Masters of the Universe' for Filmation Studios.

1985: Staff writer on animated 'She-Ra, Princess of Power' for Filmation Studios.

1986: Wrote 14 of the scripts for 'Jayce and the Wheeled Warriors' by DIC Enterprises.

Co-wrote series bible and pilot of 'Elfquest' for CBS/Zander Prods.

Presented two stories and had one produced for 'The Twilight Zone' by CBS/Persistence of Vision.

Wrote series bible, pilot and episodes of animated 'The Real Ghostbusters' by Columbia Pictures Television, ABC and DIC Enterprises.

1986-87: Executive story consultant for 'Captain Power and the Soldiers of the Future' by Landmark Entertainment Group.

1987-88: Story editor for 'The Twilight Zone' by London Films/CBS International/ MGM-UA Television.

1987-92: Host for 'Hour 25', a two hour sci-fi talk show for KPFK-FM in L.A.

1988: Wrote 'Demon Night' a novel published by E P Dutton Publication. Nominated Best First Novel for Bram Stoker Award.

Writer for the bible and pilot of 'Batman' by ABC/Nelvana Entertainment.

1988-89: Wrote more episodes and primetime Halloween special of 'The Real Ghostbusters'. The series was nominated Best Animated Series for 1990 Emmy.

1989: Wrote 'Tales from the New Twilight Zone' anthology based on his scripts published by Bantam/Spectra Books.

Wrote two one-hour adaptations for 'Nightmare Classics' by Think Entertainment/Showtime. 'The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde' was nominated for Writer's Guild and Ace Awards.

1989-90: Executive story consultant of 'Jake and The Fatman'.

1989-91: Developed 'V: The Next Chapter' for Warner Bros.

1990: Wrote 'Othersyde' a novel published by E P Dutton.

1991-92: Producer for two seasons of 'Murder, She Wrote' for CBS/Universal. Also wrote for several episodes.

1993: Supervising producer 'Walker, Texas Ranger' for CBS/Cannon Television.

1993-98: Creator/writer/executive producer 'Babylon 5'.

1995: Wrote pilot for 'Guardians' a sci-fi series.

1996: Published updated edition of 'The Complete Book of Scriptwriting'. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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The 3 most common elements in the Universe:
Hydrogen, Greed, Stupidity!

AngelSummers · Nov 9, 2001

Thanks for the info. Where didja get it? Its hard to get anything on JMS on the web. I cn't believe he wrote for my favourite cartoons HeMan and SheRa!!

That was 10 years ago of course. although I wouldn't mind watching it again.

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May you all be well and happy, free from suffering, free from sickness.

channe · Nov 9, 2001

JMS wrote for the cartoons I used to adore as a young whippersnapper, sitting there in my pyjamas on a Saturday morning.

That goes along with the fact that I told my boss over the summer that he had been a lawyer before I was born (twenty-two years ago), and he came back with the fact that he was an *experienced* lawyer in the late seventies...

I make people feel old, I guess...

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In our sleep, pain which cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, until, in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom through the grace of God.
-Aeschylus

KoshN · Nov 9, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by AngelSummers:
That would be nice to see. A tortured soul forced to see his world spiral into destruction.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Man, do you ever have a mean streak!

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KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

creation of the rangers

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