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B5LR: Disappointment

Casper

New member
Legend of the Rangers, the “Last Best Hope”. Well that failed. As a fan of the series Babylon 5, bordering on fanatic, I had high hopes for the latest project from J. Michael Straczynski. The Babylon 5 series was imaginative, written with passion, and with every episode you could see the creator molding a series into a success.
The Legend of the Rangers seemed to lack the conviction necessary to stand up to its predecessor. The movie seemed to have no passion in the script. It was, to say the least, an amateurs attempt to make a cohesive story line. The idea of the movie was a good idea, but the writer’s just plain drop the ball. It gave the impression that the people writing this were doing it on scene-by-scene bases. I found the acting to be done in the same fashion.
The actors, I’m sure are talented, gave a performance that was more robotic like. The lead “Capt. David Martel” played by Dylan Neal. Neal a seasoned actor showed that a good actor can be held back by a bad script. The only promising display was done by Andreas Katsulas. Katsulas returned to the movie as G`Kar. With the wit and display of familiarity Katsulas was the only shining light in the entire movie.
As the movie continued to dull the senses, I found yet another reason to dismiss this film. The time line was wrong. The introduction of this new enemy, a force that we have never seen giving their powers to lower races, just does not make any sense. Can anyone say “The Shadows”? This is the same theme on a different ship. The crew is different, the ship is different, the enemy ship is different, and the theme is the same.
After everything I have stated here. The next question is will I still watch the show (if there is one)? The answer is yes. As all true fans will remember the first season of Babylon 5 was less than what we have come to expect. With time and a little tender loving care, J. Michael Straczynski should be able to make this into the great success Babylon 5 was and still is.
Last thing, where did the show “Crusades” go to?
 
I personally loved it. It just goes to show that everyone has their own expectations and opinions, and while I may not agree with your's, I wholeheartly support your right to voice them. Perhaps if this is picked up as a series your opinion will change.

p.s., I thought Casper was a friendly ghost...
wink.gif


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Wipster

"Live Long in Prosser"
 
The Gathering and Season 1 of Babylon 5 wasnt that great, yet after you watched the rest of the series you can go back and see how they all fit together. Wanting a better performance for a pilot movie which was better then the rest of the b5 movies by 10 touchdowns(with the expection of A Call To Arms) is ridiculus.

Capt

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DS9 and B5. Who would have thought 2 of my fav shows would take place on stations in the middle of nowhere :)
 
Surely Rangers was better than TKO, Exogenesis, Gray 17 is Missing, half of season 5 etc?
People seem to forget that Rangers was a pilot. If TV Guide like it, why are some here being so critical.
I'm expecting to see some flaws in the movie when it comes to the UK, but I will be looking at the potential and I shall also compare it to other pilots (such as the awful Trek ones etc).

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'I plan to live forever, or die trying' - Villa Blake's 7
 
Many people like being critical. On some occasions, it can do much good. A healthy amount of criticism can point out places for improvement. But too much can also have adverse effects.

:: how can it be that the Shadow Nitpicking Team ::
:: misses the chance to criticize something ::
:: for the simple reason of being unable to watch it ::


This is intolerable!
I must watch it!
Green must criticize purple!

[This message has been edited by Lennier (edited January 20, 2002).]
 
I disagree with most of your criticisms. I find it hard to believe that we are both B5 fans watching the same movie! And it surprised me that at the end of your message you said you would still watch Legends of the Rangers if it became a series.

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Odette
 
Oh my god you are so wrong. Seriously, just watch the first few episodes on the season one, and tell me if ALL actors (except maybe for Katsula & Jurassik) aren't robotic like without laughing. Seriously the firsts few episodes of the original serie was pretty lame, but very fast became what is probably the best TV show ever. You are like some netagive people who compare a *PILOT* with new actors playing their roles for THE FIRST TIME with, say, all the actors at their 4th or 5th season ? Sure you don't have to perfect chemistry or characterization, because IT'S THE FIRST TIME THEY PLAY THEIR ROLE !!! And let's talk about the script. Just give me a favore and watch again "The Gathering". A missed murder. Captain wrongly accused. No much time to proof he's not guilty. So, can you tell me it was a better script than LOTR ???

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When I said my quarters were cold, I did not mean "Oh, I think it is a little chilly in here. Perhaps I'll throw a blanket on the bed." No! I said it was cold! As in, "Oh look - my left arm has snapped off like an icicle and shattered on the floor!"
- Londo
 
To all you people who didn't like B5LR... It's not my intention to argue with you, but I will pose this one question to you:

When "The Gathering" first aired, and if you were around to see it back then, what were your honest-to-God first thoughts of it?

I was around back then. I remember. And the reaction was a lot more negative than the reaction to B5LR has been. A LOT more.

It is my belief that you simply cannot judge a show's quality, storyline, arc, etc. by the pilot episode. Nearly every good sci-fi show starts off with a less-than spectacular pilot. Look at the popularity of TNG, DS9, Andromeda, Earth: Final Conflict, and yes, Babylon 5. All had arguably mediocre series pilots... but look what they became and/or have become.

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-Londo's Hair
"Vir, intelligence has nothing to do with politics!"
 
I agree with what Londo said, on both accounts. I believe in people having the right to voice their opinions. But I also agree with the point that it's just the pilot. A lot of shows are very shaky when they first start off. New cast, new characters - they have to deal with this all, and try to meet the majority of people's expectations. Even though doing so is almost a fantasy in itself.

I watched "The Gathering" again today when it aired on Sci-Fi and, as Londo also said, it had a lot of...negative aspects, but it was just a pilot. The show obviously did well, else we wouldn't be here. I personally liked it, and I'm going to give it another chance, as it deserves.

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"There's always hope, because it's the one thing nobody's figured out how to kill yet." - Galen
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>I watched "The Gathering" again today when it aired on Sci-Fi and, as Londo also said, it had a lot of... negative aspects, but it was just a pilot.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL!
smile.gif
And you saw the revised version of The Gathering. By all accounts, and I have yet to see it, myself, the original was far worse - choppy, badly paced, even more exposition-heavy and larded down with the "alien zoo" and "cone of silence" sequences.

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division

joseph-demartino@att.net
 
My favorite seasons of B5 were 3 and 4.
My least favorite seasons were 1 and 5.
I did not expect LOTR to be as strong as
either 3 or 4, but nor did I expect
it to be as weak as some episodes in either
1 or 5. Hence, I was mostly pleased with
my viewing experience. It was a strong
(not excellent) Pilot. Excellent pilots
are rare. So, it is high praise for me
to use the term 'strong' in this context.
Re: the acting... my main negative critical
comment is that some of the actors seemed
to express no conviction when uttering the
significant line "we live for the one, we
die for the one." It was as if they were
given no direction by Mike Vejar (spelling?), the director (of many B5 episodes), re: the background of the Minbari and the Rangers. G'Kar, of course was wonderfull. I have been a loyal (and critical) B5 fan since The Gathering and Season 1 were first aired in the US, and I am looking forward to the possibility of a new B5 series on television. Cheers to The Rangers.

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"I did not say anything then,
and I'm not saying anything now"
---Dukhat
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>LOL! And you saw the revised version of The Gathering. By all accounts, and I have yet to see it, myself, the original was far worse - choppy, badly paced, even more exposition-heavy and larded down with the "alien zoo" and "cone of silence" sequences. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

*winces* Well, then I'll consider myself lucky. For some reasons best left unknown, Delenn's facial color looked rather bland, which is a shame, since I rather like her. I suppose I rather not ask about the "alien zoo" and "cone of silence"? I can only imagine. Or can I?

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"There's always hope, because it's the one thing nobody's figured out how to kill yet." - Galen

[This message has been edited by Aurelie (edited January 20, 2002).]
 
I remember the original PTEN version of "The Gathering." B5LR IMO is the better of the two pilot movies. I know how good a series B5 became after "The Gathering." I expect B5LR will be an excellent series also. I will only be disappointed if SCIFI channel doesn't turn B5LR into a series.

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Remember dear readers, you heard it here first. Off the record, on the Q.T., and very hush-hush - Danny DeVito as Sid Hudgens in L.A. Confidential
 
I must explain I haven't yet seen LotR but I will next week when my friend brings the tape over. However I have both versions of the pilot of B5, The Gathering. It is true the revised version is better because a few silly moments were cut (The cone of silence was for G'kar to ask Lyta about a sexual encounter to get some telepathic DNA for the Narns, and was just like Maxwell Smart.) It was truly ludicrous but good for a laugh. The best improvement IMO was the change of music to Christopher Franke.

One evening I sat down and ran them through side by side to compare them. Most of the other improvements were added exposition scenes which had been cut.

I really didn't like The Gathering but I watched the series anyway because of its totally new approach.

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I always seem to be diagonally parked in a parallel universe.
 
I agree with the pro B5LRers in this respect: pilots in general suck (though the original Star Trek... something for another board) and this was better than most. It was WAY better than the other B5 movies.

my problem with LR is this:

at some point in the movie G'Kar says something to the effect of "all races have myths about a time of darkness expelled by forces of light. At first I thought that was all they were: myths"

a) G'Kar NEVER thought that. That's why he was always reading in the book of Shaquann about Shadows. That's why he sent the explorator mission to Z'ha'dum at the beginning of season 2. That's why he listened to the paranoia about a "soldier of darkness" in (I'm bad with episode titles) the one where they pick up the sleeper ship and its (invisible) Shadow hitchiker

b) wasn't the point of B5 that these myths were planted by the Vorlons as a way to get us to turn against the Shadows. Where did the Hand come from?

Which brings up another point: how do the Hand fit in with the first ones. Why didn't the Vorlons (or at least Lorien) warn us that the Shadows actually weren't the biggest, baddest thing out there. He at least should have known (being THE first one)

I have no problem with bad acting; but the arc is what made B5 so good. Why are they going back and rewriting it?


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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
Which brings up another point: how do the Hand fit in with the first ones. Why didn't the Vorlons (or at least Lorien) warn us that the Shadows actually weren't the biggest, baddest thing out there. He at least should have known (being THE first one)

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Could it be that Lorien

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>thought the Hand was safely locked away in another dimension </font></td></tr></table>




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Remember dear readers, you heard it here first. Off the record, on the Q.T., and very hush-hush - Danny DeVito as Sid Hudgens in L.A. Confidential
 
I've seen both of the versions of The Gathering. In my opinion, they both sucked. I got lucky though. I started watching during season 2. A buddy of mine brought over his copy of The gathering and let me watch it sometime around season 3 or 4. About half way through it i told him that i'm glad i didn't watch the pilot before i started watching the series cause i wouldn't have watched the series after seeing that first. That's how bad i thought the gathering was. I thought this was a great pilot, yeah the script had a few problems but just about all of them do. Also, didn't someone say something about JMS only having a couple of weeks to do the script in??? I think i heard that some where on this board, which would explain the problems. I liked it though, i give it a B, and btw, the only telemovie i gave an A to was ITB. But everyone has their own opinions, just remember that it was a pilot and we'll see the really good stuff if/when it goes to a series.

Sinc.
Jerome

PS I taped it and i think i'm gonna go watch it again now
laugh.gif


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I am a Ranger. We walk in the dark places no others will enter. We stand on the bridge and no one may pass. We live for the One. We die for the one.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dunedain:
at some point in the movie G'Kar says something to the effect of "all races have myths about a time of darkness expelled by forces of light. At first I thought that was all they were: myths"

a) G'Kar NEVER thought that. That's why he was always reading in the book of Shaquann about Shadows. That's why he sent the explorator mission to Z'ha'dum at the beginning of season 2. That's why he listened to the paranoia about a "soldier of darkness" in (I'm bad with episode titles) the one where they pick up the sleeper ship and its (invisible) Shadow hitchiker


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


But what did G'Kar think BEFORE he did those things? Ive heard this nitpick a couple of times, and I think its kind of silly. Have we been following G'Kar's development since birth?
People are reacting as though "At first" is synonomous with "This morning when I woke up."
And that's just not so people. "At frist" could mean his 4th birthday party. It could mean 2 weeks before the events in The Gathering. It could be the split second after he first heard of these myths.

Its fun to nit pick the nit pickers.
laugh.gif
laugh.gif

I just think its off base to respond to such vague language with complete certainty.
("He NEVER thought that.")

Thats just one Mortal Sword's opinion

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I'm probably dating myself but I remember watching "The Gathering" on PTEN with my husband when it first came on and thinking - "Oh my God No - Tell me there isn't anything more after this!" It was pretty sad - I ended up changing the channel somewhere in the middle then coming back for the end. But now - multiple VHS tapes (Both commercial and home-recorded) later with seasons 1-5 and the DVD version of the two movies safely locked away in my cabinet I must admit - pilots are the worse way to convince someone to watch a television program. So I'm going to reserve judgement on the quality of a possible Rangers series until it's actually in the can and I can review at least a half seaon of the program. By then - if it's going to take it will. If not - well there's always Law and Order and its multiple spin-offs.

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Lady Margot is correct, this is a pilot, and look what followed the Gathering.

I liked the movie, the characters, (who, if a series comes out of this, will grow into themselves), and the plotline.

I think the FX crew has to remember that the reason b5 and Crusade FXs looked better, was not the quality of the renderings. The FX of LOTR look good, and move bad. Camera action during FX shots in LOTR was nonexistant. Think about the "Hand Toy" ships, approaching with the camera moving from behind, fast, passing them (following the first shots) and rotating on the Valen and Liandra, shaking from the hit on the Valens engines. Camera movement during FX shots set the old shows and movies apart from this one. The look was good, just flat.

I am happy that these were 'toys' of the hand, given to those loyal, my thought was, "Thats all they've got?".

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