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About this review..


Beyond the rim
I am puzzled by the commotion that this review at AICN has caused. I've looked over the review and found that 90 percent of it is concerned with aethetics. The reviewer did not like the look of the battle scences, he/she did not like the VR fighting mechanism, He/She did not like hyperspace and jumpgate effect. It goes on and on about the visuals and FX. There is no detailed critique of the story/plot. There is a comment about the acting being uneven and G'kar being unneccessary for the plot, however that is about as close to real criticism that we get.

I find it interesting that another reviewer at AICN who saw the movie without effects gave it a very good review (about 2 months ago).

As an SF fan my primary concern is and always will be STORY. I'd watch Old Trek over Voyager any day (even though Voyager had the better effects). The review at AICN told me very little about the quality of the story.

I'm also surprised by the reaction of some of the cast to this review. In the face of some very shallow criticism they have backed of the claim of how wonderful Rangers is. As a lurker to this group I am puzzled by this.

The actors aren't "backing off." They simply are saying that the movie is also a pilot, and therefore not perfect. As Dylan said, they're acting as "cheerleaders" to promote it.

"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."
You've hit the nail on the head. The AICN review *was* primarily concerned with aesthetics. And that is far from being the drive or focus of Rangers, even though, like all SF, it's pretty darn important.

It is the story that will be on trial come January. It is the story - not the fact that the the ancient enemy looks like snowflakes or amoebas or that we see more of

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black> Sarah fighting than the Liandra itself fighting </font></td></tr></table>

- that will drive the decision to make a series. Good story, good ratings, more Rangers. Bad story, bad ratings, more Rangers. (This is really simple. I am not a Hollywood media guru like Alyson or Joe D. I fully understand that there's more to it than that.)

Well, no. It could be bad story, good ratings, more Rangers, as well. But, somehow, I really don't think that's the way it will work out. Rangers has the added advantage of one of the best screenwriters in SF as it's driving mind. Yeah, there are better screenwriters, but you have to admit that JMS writes one coherent story.

I'm being a cheerleader, too. When I sit down to watch in January I'm gonna like it, I'm gonna nitpick it, and I'm gonna hope for a series so I can see more.

In the end, I could care less that someone mentioned that the Liandra was brown instead of blue. I wanna know (and I'll post this without a box, because it was in the trailer) why it's a good day for Sarah to die, or why David staying alive was a crime, and why was that guy *yawning* so largely?

That's why I think we should all ignore the AICN review.

Sorry if this was bigger than it needed to be. I'm tired and pulling an allnighter!

Ranger Channe, the next JMS, who walks in the dark places no one may enter, lives for the One, and dies for the chocolate cheesecake.
Well, I have to respond once again...

I have to clarify things here...In general...the film is pretty awesome...I have seen the movie twice and loved it both times...extremely impressed!

I just don't think that it is really necessary to mention every little thing that could be improved in "To Live and Die in Starlight"...I really don't see the point since, to me...they are so insignificant...Who cares...

In general...overall...the movie is kick-ass...

Of course I could sit and really analyze the film...picking it apart piece by piece...but what would be the point...and most of the critical-ness or picking apart would be referring to my performance...which I really don't want to do...and I can't do anything about it at this point...But, of course, there will be plenty of room for continuing improvement on my part/role in the series...if I have that opportunity!

I am definitely a perfectionist...I am definitely an analytical person...but, in this case...this unneccesary behaviour will serve no purpose...in fact...it would be quite useless...quite neurotic...and will not contribute anything positive to myself, to the rest of the cast and crew...and of course, all the B5 and B5LR fans!

Fortunately...I just don't have the grounds to make being critical, justified...

So, with that...I will sign off...

Until next time...January 2002...Here we come my friends!

Cheers! -Warren T. Takeuchi- "Kit"

ps-It would be absolutely fantastic if I could rent a huge theater...with a huge screen...with a kick-ass sound system...and we could all screen "To Live and Die in Starlight" together...and have a big party afterwards...Wouldn't that be fun? You people deserve this...

The expense would be on me of course!

I like to dream...

Warren -

Don't nitpick Rangers. Leave that to us. We're the fans; we're incredibly good at what we do (especially the English majors among us), which is literary criticism.

Well, for anyone hanging around the Western New York area, the sci-fi organization at my college will actually be doing what Warren said he wants to do. Namely, we have a pretty large theater in which we're going to screen Rangers - live if the airdate is the 19th, taped if the airdate is the 2nd. Sorry, we're out of spoo, but we'll have plenty of Pepsi on hand, as well as a general air of celebration.

Vancouver's a bit far away, methinks.

Wouldn't that be a riot? The entire B5LR message-board, sitting in a theater together, screening Rangers? That'd be something I'd actually drive more than four hours for...

Right, back to my all-nighter (I'm on my twenty-eighth page out of sixty!)

Channe, the pseudo-Ranger, who lives for the One and dies for the chocolate cheesecake
OnlineDude: I suppose now would not be the time to bring up the old one about the starlet who was so new to Hollywood she slept with the writer...
JMS: But that was only because she heard that in Hollywood, *everyone* screws the writer.
"Foreshadowing! Your key to quality literature!" -Berkeley Breathed

[This message has been edited by channe (edited October 16, 2001).]
So , some idiot trekkie doesn't like the movie. Big deal.

There'll always be people who don't like what you do.

Aicn were the ones saying iNSURRECTION wasa good movie. hA -HA.

I've downloaded the fullscreen trailer and it really does kick butt!

60 seconds of wall to wall fx.
The visuals look theatrical quality to me , i have no idea what this bozo is criticizing

Maybe he's to used to seeing butt ugly boring federation designs.

I was just wondering about some of the ships seen in the trailer.

That fattened up version of the excalibur looks worthy to carry the name Valen.

I wonder how that ship that had the fron t of an omega fits in?

And i love how the hull of the LIandra is neither orange nor green nor gold.

You cannot harm one who has dreamed a dream like JMS.

Never use a Star Trek solution to a Babylon 5 problem
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by westtim:
It goes on and on about the visuals and FX.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Hmmm... We've had visitors from
GVFX here before... Any of you around now, and feel like tackling some of the complaints in the review?

You are not entitled to your own opinion. You are only entitled to your own informed opinion.
-- Harlan Ellison qouting Gustave Flaubert
Hey there KoZ. I posted my own theory on that mystery ship back in the "Speculations of a Sleepy Shadow" thread. Take a look and see what ya think.

And Warren, no need to pick the thing apart, although like Channe said, we certainly will. But it's not necessarily always negative - we pick apart things to see what we like about them too. If you ever peruse "The Lurker's Guide to Babylon 5", you can see how deep the analysis goes.

I'm certainly holding out hope. No one here ever said the film had to be perfect. Dylan has said it is better than the "Enterprise" pilot "Broken Bow" and Captain Pike said it was better than Crusade. There are positives to be found even in that most heinous review.

Pike's review is informed though. I'm sure folks here will have some of the same nitpicks as he did. We've already got folks wondering why the Liandra isn't blue, and I did wonder if that Bladerunner-esque building was supposed to be the new home of the Grey Council on Minbar. If it doesn't look like the Minbar we're used to, well that's a shame and will be noted here, of course. But does it ruin the movie? Nah.

The only thing I fear is if the movie were in fact "dumb", as Pike succinctly put it. Rangers has pretty big shoes to fill. It doesn't have to be as angst-ridden and complicated as Babylon 5, but it has to live up to the standards of storytelling that preceded it.

A lot of fans considered "Thirdspace" dumb and didn't like it. While it was no "In the Beginning", I sure found it entertaining enough. But then "River of Souls" was a total waste of good film. JMS gave us the ultimate epic science fiction story for television, but has since shown a weakness in devising stories for the two-hour format.

As for the effects being muddled, we'll have to see. I had the same complaint about the big battle in "A Call to Arms". Once again, worth noting, but it doesn't ruin the film.

The new "Rangers" trailer is full of action, but we all know action doesn't make a very good movie.

(I had myself measured and I lost 6 IQ points just from watching "Armageddon". I need to get those points back!)

Lately, we've had enough of style over substance, both in politics and in films. Special effects have gotten incedibly convincing and elaborate, but scripts have gone right into the toilet. So it is my sincerest hope that "Rangers" will pose the tough questions (and find no easy answers), delve into boundless mysteries, and tap into that rich vein of human (and alien) drama that we fans have all come to enjoy.

"When something we value is destroyed, we rebuild it. If it's destroyed again we rebuild it again. And again, and again, and again. Until it stays. "
~Jeffrey Sinclair
Hey people,

Thanks for the great message responses!

Yes...I believe that the audience has every right to analyze and critically dissect a film...I really look forward to hearing the feeback too!

This process, if done in an intellectual way...a way that offers creative solutions or should I say, constructive improvements...can be very positive...and actually, is the best way for a production to engage in moving forward and work off of...since, in the end...it is for the audience's sake...

The key here is mentioned...view the trailer...and from this...one can gauge what exactly is going to be anticipated in the actual movie...The trailer for "The Legend of the Rangers" is a very, very good indicator of what is coming in January -2002...and can also be used as an indicator to gauge the comments posted @ "Ain't It Cool News"...

Anyways...thanks for the great messages! It is really great reading them!

Cheers! -Warren-


It should be noted too that that fat bastard Harry allowed Pike to post his negative review but never did post the link to trailer that I sent him.

"When something we value is destroyed, we rebuild it. If it's destroyed again we rebuild it again. And again, and again, and again. Until it stays. "
~Jeffrey Sinclair
We can't be objective. We're B5 fans, we'll defend B5. We have to accept that people won't like it, or there may be faults in the script or telemovie. Differences of opinion will occur, and we of all of course know that not everyone will like B5LR.

But I think we need to look at the source of where this bad review has come from. And I use the word 'review' loosely, becuase it's more just a load of jabbering. This is Ain't it Cool News. Now, I don't really have much opinion on them one way or the other. However, I know a lot of people who really DO NOT like them. I've seen the trouble the site has caused, and the fire it's come under. It's gained an enviable following, but I think it's hardly the most professional or objective source for a review.

"Love isn't brains, children, it's blood. Blood screaming inside you to work its will. I may be love's bitch, but at least I'm man enough to admit it." -- Spike, Buffy the Vampire Slayer

"Evil's still afoot. And I'm almost out of that nancy-boy hair-gel I like so much. Quickly, to the Angel-mobile, away." -- Spike, as Angel, in Angel
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by B5_Obsessed:
I did wonder if that Bladerunner-esque building was supposed to be the new home of the Grey Council on Minbar.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I'm pretty sure it has been established that the Grey Council spend all their time on their ship, and are in fact not allowed to leave it.

You are not entitled to your own opinion. You are only entitled to your own informed opinion.
-- Harlan Ellison qouting Gustave Flaubert
The Shadow and Minbair civil wars, as well as Delenn's actions, would have immeasurable consequences on the way Minbari government and society work. If, for story purposes, the writers want to put the Grey Council on Minbar, it would totally make sense.

"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."
::lurks in the background gathering freinds for his little suprise for ACIN:: What is it they used to say about revenge?

I like Trek and B5 I love trek becuase...its Trek!! I love B5 becuase of deeper reasons becuase it moves me inside.

Imagine if we did have that party! I bet 20:1 odds Sta and Kirbu would vanish to the nearest hotel.

I'm a simple man. All I want is enough sleep for two normal men, enough whiskey for three, and enough women for four.
I couldn't care less about the review. I plan to see the movie without reading any reviews, so I can see it without any preconceptions.

If it were a theatrical release, I might read some reviews by people I trust (avoiding spoilers, of course). However, for a TV movie, especially a "Babylon 5" TV movie, I'll see it and recommend that my friends see it, regardless of what I hear about reviews (good or bad).

Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bakana:
When Delenn recreated the Grey Council she took specific notice of the fact that spending all their time on a Starship was Part Of The Problem. It left the council "disconnected" from the Minbari people. I believe she recommended that they Move Back "home".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Damn. I must be getting senile.

You are not entitled to your own opinion. You are only entitled to your own informed opinion.
-- Harlan Ellison qouting Gustave Flaubert

You step away from the board for a few days and all hell breaks loose.

So I guess I'll add my two cents' worth about reviews. They don't matter to me a whole lot - the good ones are nice, the bad ones sting. If you believe one, you have to believe the other, so I choose to not put a lot of stock in either and just listen to the word on the street.

Ultimately, if the folks at home like the movie and have a good time watching it, then that's all that really matters to me.

On another topic, hockey has started again and I could not be happier! I watched an awesome game last Saturday between Vancouver and Colorado. Did anyone catch it?

In a couple of hours from now, Eric Lindros will meet up with Scott Stephens and the New Jersey Devils - their last meeting resulted with a brutal elbow to the chops from Stephens which had Lindros out with a concussion. It'll be interesting to see how they go at it today...

By the way, I toured a one-woman show a couple of years ago and it was a huge success. It was funny and people really liked it. The reviews across the country were really great and it helped me to promote the show a lot. But I did a matinee one day in Winnipeg and received this review from a gal from CBC radio:

"WOULD YOU LIKE FRIES WITH THAT? - Big Hype. Big Lineups. Big Deal. 'Would You Like Fries With That?' needs salt.

Geez, what are ya gonna do?

Now I can add the term "mousy" to my list of reviewers descriptions. No matter how many positive reviews you get for something, the one that stands out is the crappy one.

Let it go, I say and decide for yourselves.

Take care,


[This message has been edited by AntonyF (edited October 18, 2001).]
Enid, if you want to put the url of your site in a post, put the address in the tag instead of the [img] tag, like so: [url="http://www.enid-rayeadams.com"]Enid's Site

Sheridan: Are you trying to cheer me up?
Ivanova: No sir, wouldn't dream of it.
Sheridan: Good, I hate being cheered up. It's depressing.
Ivanova: So in that case we're all going to die horrible, painful, lingering deaths.
Sheridan: Thank you, I feel so much better now.
I'm not exactly sure what I was trying to accomplish there. Bear with me, I just finally upgraded to VHS, and up until a couple of weeks ago, my cell phone was the size of a microwave!

Learning as I go. Let's try this...
My website

By the by, I didn't have a website before filming B5LR, but I put one together because of the awesome fan base for Rangers. I've added quite a few more pics and a demo on reel video, so check it out if you like.

Take care,



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