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Galactica Season 4 (Spoilers Within)

Galahad said:
I don't have a problem with either of those acts. It doesn't matter who or what your enemy is... if you can stand by and watch them get gang raped or allow your superiors to commit genocide... what does that say of you?

I should say that when I say "you" in this context, I am referring to the character in question and not yourself.
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Galahad I don't want to sound like some kind of a merciless guy here.I'm in no way that kind of person and I've never supported the weapons of mass destruction.I understand Helo's moral dilemma but we are talking about a war for survival.Either the one race or the other.I don't think the Cylons would hesitate to do it under the same surcumstances.

After all Sheridan didn't hesitate to destroy the capital of Z'Ha'Dum.

Maybe we need to ask the question are they actually a race or a bunch of of machines gone out of order that need to be repaired.

If they were an intelligent race wouldn't start a genocide for no reason.
 
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Helo has been kind of a pain in the butt, but I also believe he's kind of the conscience of the human race. Sometimes we have to do what we're told. And other times, we have to do what's right. They are not always the same thing.
 
Alluveal said:
Helo has been kind of a pain in the butt, but I also believe he's kind of the conscience of the human race. Sometimes we have to do what we're told. And other times, we have to do what's right. They are not always the same thing.
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Yes I suppose that there are no easy answers to those questions.It depends pretty much on the situation.
 
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I'm wondering what will the Colonials encounter when they find Earth?

Do you think it will be Earth nowadays or in some different time?
 
Truth_Seeker said:
Galahad I don't want to sound like some kind of a merciless guy here.I'm in no way that kind of person and I've never supported the weapons of mass destruction.I understand Helo's moral dilemma but we are talking about a war for survival.Either the one race or the other.I don't think the Cylons would hesitate to do it under the same surcumstances.
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"It's not enough to survive, one has to be worthy of surviving." - William Adama.

Th ironic thing is that the greatest evidence that humanity wouldn't' be worthy of survival from a moral standpoint, would be the mass grave of ever single cylon.

The current conflict between human and cylon is little better than the one between Centauri and Narn. Neither are worthy of survival. "They are a dying race, we should let them die." That means either lettinfg the attitudes of mutually assured destrution die... or the people themselves.

After all Sheridan didn't hesitate to destroy the capital of Z'Ha'Dum.
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Sheridans motivation for that, was not to wipe out ever single Shadow from existence... he wanted to end the war... save as many lives as possible by avoiding a prolonged combat. His reasoning was that if he dealt a crippling blow to the Shadows in their base of operations, it would make them think twice. It was the same motivation for the stunt he pulled with the telepaths. Buy sacrificing 30, he gave those that remained in the freezers a hope of being saved.

Sinclair went even further... in the comics as Valen, he talks of ending the war with the minimal amount of loss of life... on both sides - even his enemies.

Sheridan in my opinion was not trying to initiate ethnic cleansing, so the comparison isn't a good one.

Maybe we need to ask the question are they actually a race or a bunch of of machines gone out of order that need to be repaired.
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Maybe to the cylons that question is just as relevant to us as we make it to them. Sure we are there creators, but they in turn see us as created beings... and broken at that.

If they were an intelligent race wouldn't start a genocide for no reason.
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Does that mean all Germans should be judged by the same yardstick as the Nazis? Or any civilization be judged by it's leaders or predecessors?

There are already shockwaves running through the cylon political world. Who is to say that they will forever be led by murderous factions.

For peace to have a chance, it takes key players on both sides to realise the futility of continually wiping out your enemy... but someone has to take the risk, someone has to be brave and risk that first step.
 
Galahad I never meant that I support any actions involving genocide.And I think that the virus would kill only the human models.The Centurions will remain operating.

And I don't really want to argue about something like that in this forum.
 
I'm wondering what will the Colonials encounter when they find Earth?

Do you think it will be Earth nowadays or in some different time?
 
Truth_Seeker said:
Galahad I never meant that I support any actions involving genocide.
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I wasn't saying you were. I didn't mean to imply as such either. I think the last part of my post could have been seen as directed at you but it's not. I was just pointing out by using a an analogy from our on timeline.. that not all cylons necessarily have the samepolitical goals.

And I don't really want to argue about something like that in this forum.
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Fair enough... but it's all relevant to the show. And the questions covered by shows such as BSG and B5 are partly why science fiction exists. Authors and writers often project their concerns about humanity's behaviour into a futuristic or fantastic setting to make people think about it.
 
Galahad said:
Fair enough... but it's all relevant to the show. And the questions covered by shows such as BSG and B5 are partly why science fiction exists. Authors and writers often project their concerns about humanity's behaviour into a futuristic or fantastic setting to make people think about it.
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Yes you're right.It's a little off-topic but I think that JMS tried to show the worst features of people in characters like Londo and the best of them in characters like Delenn.Even if they are alien characters they make us think about ourselves.
 
Alluveal said:
Not sure I agree. I think Sheridan would have absolutely taken out every single shadow being he could.
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That was true...up UNTIL he learned the truth...then he was just as pissed at the Vorlons as the Shadows and realized there had to be another path.
 
Thinking out loud and hoping I don't sound foolish. On BSg how is it that thecharaters have names and surnames that are exactly like what we have here on earth, example Dr Robert, or Laura Roslyn for example, and how is that their written and I am presuming, spoken language is obviously kings english. This last bit, isn't like Stargate Sg1 where the humans of other worlds talk english for audience convenience, but their written language is obviously alien. In BSG's case its deliberate, maybe Ron Moore not so subtly telling us Hey ,folks there from Earth, It may tie into the machine theory in that certain things and conventions have stayed the same. just a thought really.
 
I always suspended belief about that stuff. For shows like BSG that have humans with no contact with Earth...one might assume they DO talk in a different language than English. Maybe Latin, maybe their own language, but lets face it, this is a TELEVISION SHOW in the US. What, are going to subtitle the whole thing? Not a chance.

However if they go to Earth and end up speaking true English, then to me that would be a bit unrealistic, since English is hardly one of the oldest languages on our planet...and if we did come from somewhere else in BSG universe, they would be speaking more of an ancient language. Chances of both races going to english is hard to believe.

But like I said, bottom line, its a TV show meant for a generally english-speaking audience, so that is why they do. :)
 
Garovorkin said:
Thinking out loud and hoping I don't sound foolish. On BSg how is it that thecharaters have names and surnames that are exactly like what we have here on earth, example Dr Robert, or Laura Roslyn for example, and how is that their written and I am presuming, spoken language is obviously kings english. This last bit, isn't like Stargate Sg1 where the humans of other worlds talk english for audience convenience, but their written language is obviously alien. In BSG's case its deliberate, maybe Ron Moore not so subtly telling us Hey ,folks there from Earth, It may tie into the machine theory in that certain things and conventions have stayed the same. just a thought really.
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Yes humans speaking English everywhere in Stargate was strange.

I think that in BSG Ron Moore should have created this distant civilization much more different than our own.He did a good job with phrases like "Oh my gods" or "So say we all" but most of the things look very familiar to our modern culture.For example the interior of the rooms could have looked more ancient Greek.
 
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Its just that for me it makes it that much harder to suspend disbelief, thats the point, By not creating a pseudo alien written language and a few other things wouldn't that suppose that Earth is in fact the origin and not Kobol, otherwise this is a huge gapping error. It would not be even remotely possible for them to have originated on Kobol, have a language that is exactly like ours, have surnames that would be like ours. Its as impossible as find human life evolving identically to us on a distant planet, in other word zero chance of that By the laws of convergent evolution similar biological forms different in genetic and underlying physiology are possible but thats as far as it could go. Has it ever occurred to anyone that the machine idea might be true in light of these things? that being machine copies of the original humanity, that they have stagnated in some aspects of their culture. We know that Language evolves and changes over time in a normal human culture, but this is not a normal human culture art all. Again just thinking out loud.
 
Recoil said:
However if they go to Earth and end up speaking true English, then to me that would be a bit unrealistic, since English is hardly one of the oldest languages on our planet...and if we did come from somewhere else in BSG universe, they would be speaking more of an ancient language. Chances of both races going to english is hard to believe.
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Not that unbelievable if as I suspect, the original Kobol settlers actually came from future Earth in the first place... and the 13th tribe merely returned home... Chinese whispers masking what really happened over time.
 
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