A_M_Swallow
Regular
Alternatively they were told not to be in Tehran 20 minutes after extra tough guy Reagan got the missile launching codes.
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Fahrenheit 9/11 (SPOILERS)
- Thread starter Ninja_Squirrel
- Start date
A_M_Swallow
Regular
Good cop, bad cop is a standard negotiating technique. After that number of months stalemate, I am sure that the US negotiators were only too happy to describe to the Iranians what will happen in graphic detail.
A_M_Swallow
Regular
So how tough was Reagan and had he inserted like-minded people into the approval committees?
Sindatur
Regular
HEHE, speaking of Reagan and "Trigger happiness", when he first passed on, I paid my respects to him by listening to the Album by Gary Moore - Victims of the Future. One song in particular "Murder in the Skies". This song was about the Korean Airlines flight that was shot down by the Soviets, and everyone was so paranoid and scared that The Insane Anglo Warlord (An anagram of his name Roanld Wilson Reagan) was going to start World War III over it. Turned out Reagan wasn't nearly as trigger happy as we all believed The Bush family has shown themselves to be far more trigger happy as Presidents. I think that album plays much more true to todays fears than it was reality back in those days.
Jade Jaguar
Regular
KoshFan and Za_Ha_Dum
The info about the rescue mission sabotage came out long after the fact, I believe early to mid 90's. I read it in the papers, most likely The Detroit Free Press, so I can't provide any links. The helos would normally use special filters on their engine air intakes while flying over the desert, SOP. North and Secord were in charge of the operation, and an order was given NOT to use the filters, even though it was predictable that this would take out at least some of them. I don't remember the numbers, but although they had included several extra helos, too many went out, and there were not enough left to do the job. Later, at a staging area in the desert, there was an accident, a collision on the ground between a jet plane, and another vehicle, what sort, I forget. This caused some serious loss of life. It was blamed on poor visibility, due to darkness, and blowing sand. As far as I know, that was truly an accident. North was given his office in the Reagan White House as a reward for this operation. I did see a film recently, with some info about the Reagan effort to delay the hostage release. It might have been in The Trials of Henry Kissinger, which is an excellent film, with lots of political conniving exposed, most about Viet Nam.
The info about the rescue mission sabotage came out long after the fact, I believe early to mid 90's. I read it in the papers, most likely The Detroit Free Press, so I can't provide any links. The helos would normally use special filters on their engine air intakes while flying over the desert, SOP. North and Secord were in charge of the operation, and an order was given NOT to use the filters, even though it was predictable that this would take out at least some of them. I don't remember the numbers, but although they had included several extra helos, too many went out, and there were not enough left to do the job. Later, at a staging area in the desert, there was an accident, a collision on the ground between a jet plane, and another vehicle, what sort, I forget. This caused some serious loss of life. It was blamed on poor visibility, due to darkness, and blowing sand. As far as I know, that was truly an accident. North was given his office in the Reagan White House as a reward for this operation. I did see a film recently, with some info about the Reagan effort to delay the hostage release. It might have been in The Trials of Henry Kissinger, which is an excellent film, with lots of political conniving exposed, most about Viet Nam.
Well here a quick post, had a longer one that Got ate.
Ah they used Sea Stallion Helicoptors for the mission they are Marine/naval helicoptors and weren't meant to be flying over desert, but were chosen cause they are what Naval Carriers ussualy carry so it wouldn't draw extra attetion. Dunno if their were filters for them or not but had another professor who had basicly talked to a exMilitary and after the botched rescued but before details he basicly said the problem was they used those helicoptors and at least half would go down cause of the dust(note he said before the official reason went public). Though a Dust storm didn't help matters.
Yeah a C-130 crashed into the helicoptor as they were leaving the refuling site to go back home. In the end the whole thing was misprained and iladvised not necciasrly carters fault, from choosing near a "abadoned" Road that turned out to have 2 BUSes full of people go by as the americans were their. And others thing, and alot of the problems was caused by the fact that it was a Joint operation they had made the airforce army and navy worked together and plan, and alot of Errors were made since they never had worked that closely together. Fairly sure it was Before DELTA force was formed, and delta was formed in the aftermath.
Have more later I been Busy.
Ah they used Sea Stallion Helicoptors for the mission they are Marine/naval helicoptors and weren't meant to be flying over desert, but were chosen cause they are what Naval Carriers ussualy carry so it wouldn't draw extra attetion. Dunno if their were filters for them or not but had another professor who had basicly talked to a exMilitary and after the botched rescued but before details he basicly said the problem was they used those helicoptors and at least half would go down cause of the dust(note he said before the official reason went public). Though a Dust storm didn't help matters.
Yeah a C-130 crashed into the helicoptor as they were leaving the refuling site to go back home. In the end the whole thing was misprained and iladvised not necciasrly carters fault, from choosing near a "abadoned" Road that turned out to have 2 BUSes full of people go by as the americans were their. And others thing, and alot of the problems was caused by the fact that it was a Joint operation they had made the airforce army and navy worked together and plan, and alot of Errors were made since they never had worked that closely together. Fairly sure it was Before DELTA force was formed, and delta was formed in the aftermath.
Have more later I been Busy.
opps mea culpa, Delta was formed around 1977 supposedly
http://www.specialoperations.com/Army/Delta_Force/unit_profile.htm
http://www.specialoperations.com/Army/Delta_Force/unit_profile.htm
Jade Jaguar
Regular
1977, Carter's first year in office.
hypatia
Regular
Well, there was a lot of speculation that the immense popularity of Michael Moore's film Fahrenheit 9/11 would delay its release on DVD. I suspected this was not going to be the case, since MM specifically made the DVD coming out before the elections a requirement when he negotiated distribution rights. At least that was my strong suspicion.
And, indeed, it is being released October 5th.
And for less than 20 bucks, wow.
Fahrenheit 9/11 on DVD Oct. 5
And, indeed, it is being released October 5th.
And for less than 20 bucks, wow.
Fahrenheit 9/11 on DVD Oct. 5
darth_librarian
Regular
That photo on his website does not help, what did it say about him?
Just had a quick browse around some of his links. The anti-michael moore movement is very strong indeed (or says it is) vocally, but seems light on facts. Most of the arguments i've heard against him seem to be that he's lying because hes'
A) Fat
B) Scruffy
Way to go guys...
I don't belive everything he opines (his chapters on the Northern Ireland siutation in Stupid White Men for example), but surely they can do better than this....
It's sad to see a film of great value to those on all sides of the political spectrum to be dragged into a tit for tat war...
Choices examples:
http://www.museumofleftwinglunacy.com/
http://www.moorewatch.com/
So much anger, so little to say...
Best of all:
http://www.thankyoutony.com/
I was one of the million + Brits who demonstrated against the war, and am not thanking him at all...
tlsmith1963
Regular
It's coming out on Oct. 5? Cool!
Btw, I'm a Moore fan, but I didn't even agree with everything in F911. He made it seem like everything was great in Iraq before the war started, & it wasn't. Hussein *was* a dictator. I just question the motives for the war. There are plenty of dictators in the world who are just as bad or worse than Hussein. Why are they being ignored? I think it is really just about the oil.
Tammy
Btw, I'm a Moore fan, but I didn't even agree with everything in F911. He made it seem like everything was great in Iraq before the war started, & it wasn't. Hussein *was* a dictator. I just question the motives for the war. There are plenty of dictators in the world who are just as bad or worse than Hussein. Why are they being ignored? I think it is really just about the oil.
Tammy
tlsmith1963
Regular
Uh, wasn't that the whole arms-for-hostages thing? If we are going to criticize a president in regards to the hostage situation, I'd say that's the larger criticism.
I will agree that Carter made a much better ex-president than president, however. I have been astounded at his ability to do what the administrations in charge could not do. And I am including Clinton's admin. in this.
Carter is a great people-person, and seems to respect other cultures far better than most presidents and people.
I agree about Carter. He was a mediocre President, but I have grown to respect him since he left office. I doubt that GWB will be remembered as well.
Tammy
The top five movies at the Box Office this week in NZ
Even in far away NZ, people are interested in "Fahrenheit 9/11"
It seems to be a common tactic that if people don't like someone or their ideas, you attack their appearance.
I did a bit of a chuckle about MM being scruffy. Our own Peter Jackson makes MM look like he's wearing Armani by comparison!
Even in far away NZ, people are interested in "Fahrenheit 9/11"
It seems to be a common tactic that if people don't like someone or their ideas, you attack their appearance.
I did a bit of a chuckle about MM being scruffy. Our own Peter Jackson makes MM look like he's wearing Armani by comparison!
Za_Ha_Dum
Regular
It is really sad to read someone calling Carter as a "mediocre" president. I respect your opinion, but still make me feel sad about human race fate. Apparently, when you get a REALLY public server, as Carter still is, people tend to call him mediocre.
It seems that only presidents that take "hollywoodian" decisions such as going to WAR or threat some enemies...acting like RAMBO or TERMINATOR get the credits of being, at least, avoiding the adjective "mediocre".
Carter served well his country. As long as I understand, he did not take advantage of his position to become rich, deal with the weapon industry nor oil companies in his personnal behalf. I watched in the Discovery Channel that Air Force One (presidential plane)had always received "free" offers of different companies (such as Coca-Cola, for instance). The ONLY president (according to employees´ statements) that did not want to accept any "free" help, and also, avoided fancy meals in the plane, was JIMMY CARTER.
Pleople tend to associate "mediocre" with someone that avoid "glamour", "vanity", "pride"..... Carter was a humble and real public server......That´s what really matters... The rest is just "show business".....
GKarsEye
Regular
You're talking about Carter's character, whom everyone respects, as well as his post-presidency work. But that is not enough to judge one's ability and successes in office. He presided over economic and oil crises as well as an escalating Iranian situation that laid the groundwork for our horrible middle-eastern situation that led up to the mess we're in today.
It's the same point I make about W: I don't care if he's "evil" or incompetent, both are just as bad.
It's the same point I make about W: I don't care if he's "evil" or incompetent, both are just as bad.
