Universal Translator

[Jomar]

I have often wondered who everyone of every nationality speaks English on Babylon 5. Star Trek has its universal translator but we are left to assume that officers can communicate with all the Ambassadors of every race. Ivanova studied Minbari late in the third year so she could Captain the White Star, but Sheridan seems to be able to talk to everyone.

 

[Jomar]

Sorry for the garbled message above. I meant to edit it but it got away from me.

Can anyone remember where language is discussed in one of the early episodes, or do we just assume that the aliens all learned English? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[Demon]

I believe the idea is that because B5 is an Earth owned and run station, English is the official language and everyone who comes to live and work there would be expected to learn it.

On occasion, when aliens are talking among themselves, there is an indication that they are not speaking in English, but in their own language.

Of course the Pak'ma'ra are the exception to the rule as they won't learn anyone else's language /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[ElScorcho]

The Gaim use translators. I'm guessing this is because they're insects and don't have the mouths to speak English properly.

 

[LightNZ]

Actually jms has said that we assume the characters are talking in different languages, in their own languages. But, for the point of it being a tv show, and us the viewers, we hear english.

Same kind of logic as when people ask why can we hear noise in space battles - it's to make a good tv show.

/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[RW7427]

Yeah, I remember that being stated someplace. Like when Londo and Vir are together, for example, they are speaking Centauri. But if Vir talks to a Human like Sheridan, it's probably in English.

Now, I wonder, if two aliens of different races are speaking to each other, like Londo and G'Kar for example, are they using Narn, Centauri, or English?

 

[Kribu]

Now, I wonder, if two aliens of different races are speaking to each other, like Londo and G'Kar for example, are they using Narn, Centauri, or English?

I think it's safe to assume G'Kar knew enough Centauri, since he grew up during the occupation and seems to have a talent for languages (he also spoke fluent Minbari and English, after all). Plus I doubt that they'd have spoken either Narn or English in the Centauri royal court. Of course, they may have spoken English at the station.

But in general - yeah, I think it was assumed that at least the diplomats posted on Babylon 5 would speak English. And since it was a Human-run station, I'd assume that the merchants and others who ran their own business there would also speak at least some English. Plus it's possible that a lot of the people (of any race) who were actively out and about in the universe would be able to speak and understand at least a few of the major alien languages.

And then of course there was Interlac, which I assume a lot of the aliens would know, also because it makes sense to learn something like that if you're going to spend time away from your home planet. We'd just hear it as English when aliens spoke to each other using Interlac or some alien language.

 

[Nancy]

I always assumed the aliens spoke English when speaking to humans since B5 is earth station. I never heard of Interlac though. What is it?

 

[Kribu]

Interlac's a simplified language that's used as a common language in the B5 universe. I'm assuming it's a constructed language (something similar to Esperanto, Ido etc), not a natural language.

I also found this paragraph in an old JMS message (08/12/1993) at www.jmsnews.com:

<font color="orange">Language. We don't have a universal translator. You either have
to speak English, Interlac, or Centauri, the three dominant languages. If
not, then you have to use a mechanical translator, which isn't set up for
every brand new language they encounter.</font color>

 

[Nancy]

Forgive my complete ignorance here Kribu, but are Esperanto and Ido Interlac now? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[Kribu]

They aren't *called* Interlac, obviously. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I just brought them as examples of existing non-natural languages that have been constructed in the hope of having the world use them as a common language (since a lot of people would object to using an already existing "natural" language as the common language).

Of course, esperanto etc have only had very moderate success, becoming more like a hobby for some enthusiasts than a real common language.

From what it seems, Interlac (which is a creation of JMS) would be a lot more popular and common in the B5 universe than esperanto etc are in our world.

 

[Loadhan]

Agreeing with the above but adding a bit ... Delenn mentions at the end of season 5 that English is the language of comerse and trade (meaning it's wide spread, at least in that sector) which does make sense since the EA saved pretty much every Legue world from the Dilgar, establishing them a position of importance to a great number of different races. They'd already had exstensive contact with the Centauri for English to be somewhat influential there. Minbari were mostly isolationists before the Earth-Minbari War so spreading any of their languages to any great exstent would be improbable. The Centauri - at least before the Humans and not counting the Minbari or the Vorlons who often stuck to their own - used to rule over much of the region and were still a superpower and controled much comerse - so their language was probably also widespread.

Is Interlac a spoken language? We've only ever heard it used for ship-to-ship communication so I don't know. If it, I would imagine there are plenty of times the characters are speaking Interlac on the shows. When a random alien (not an ambassodor or dipolomat) comes onto the show but speaks to an Earther, I doubt they would all have learned English and I doubt every Human knew their language.

 

[Kribu]

Is Interlac a spoken language?

The JMS quote I referred to in an above post certainly seems to indicate it. I also found a few more JMS posts on the subject at www.jmsnews.com

<font color="orange">There are actually several languages heard on B5, though you have to work to hear them. (Those with surround will have an easier time.) For instance, in the customs area, announcements are made first in English, then in Interlac.</font color> (01/15/1993)

This might be helpful as well.

<font color="orange">English is the basic language of B5, since it's run by the Earth Alliance. But it's also multi-lingual; there are signs in English, Interlac, and Centauri /---/.</font color> (12/07/1992)

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

Delenn mentions at the end of season 5 that English is the language of comerse and trade (meaning it's wide spread, at least in that sector)

Actually, Delenn called English Earth's commercial language, not the common language of commerce and trade throughout the sector. The point being that Humans themselves don't have a truly "universal" language except by habit and convention. For that matter we know that the Minbari have several languages and many dialects, and I would assume this is also true of most of the alien species. I would think a world where everyone spoke the same language would be a rarity.

OTOH all worlds probably would have one "common" langauge for international diplomacy and trade (as at various times and in various places Attic Greek, Latin, French and English have been for Earth) for the simple reason that it is more efficient for everyone to have a common second language than for everyone to learn all possible languages. It would be this dominant language that alien races would learn for interplanetary communication.

So English would be "the" language for Earth, the Religious caste dialect for the Minbari, one form of Narn "Narn", and the language of the Centauri court "Centauri". (Just as the court-influenced dialect of Paris became "the" French that dominates France and which is taught abroad.)

Because the Centauri conquered and occupied much of our corner of the galaxy at one time, and dominated a good deal of the rest, their language would be very widely spoken, and probably used for communication between many races. Since the Dilgar war English has become more and more important, while the Centauri influence has waned. Minbari was never widely spoken because the Minbari mostly colonized empty worlds with their own people, rather than conquering existing peoples. Even 1,000 years ago when they led the Armies of Light Centauri was probably more widely-spoken, and therefore would have remained the common language.

So I think most of the exchanges between aliens of different species aboard B5 would have been in English or Centauri, while those between members of the same species would be in one of their own native tongues.

BTW, I suspect that G'Kar spoke Centauri as little as possible, especially to Londo. He would never have given him the satisfaction. He would have enjoyed making Mollari speak English instead. During their time on Centauri Prime this would have had the advantage of keeping their conversations more private, since I doubt that many members of the insular and arrogant Centauri court (as opposed to their diplomats) would have bothered to learn an off-world langauge like English.

Regards,

Joe

 

[Jomar]

I remember now the episode in Year 4 where Delenn goes out in a White Star to find the marauder ships and when Lennier tries to contact them he says "they aren't using Interlac, they are speaking Minbari"
I'm sorry I can't remember the name of the episode. But I can see it very clearly in my mind. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[Kribu]

BTW, I suspect that G'Kar spoke Centauri as little as possible, especially to Londo. He would never have given him the satisfaction. He would have enjoyed making Mollari speak English instead. During their time on Centauri Prime this would have had the advantage of keeping their conversations more private, since I doubt that many members of the insular and arrogant Centauri court (as opposed to their diplomats) would have bothered to learn an off-world langauge like English.

I suppose I was a little vague earlier on.

What I meant was that he would probably have spoken English to Londo (both on the station and in any other case when they had a private conversation) but *in the Centauri court* (say, in season 5, when they first turned up on Centauri Prime with G'Kar as Londo's bodyguard) he would probably have spoken Centauri - not when speaking to Londo in Londo's private quarters.

 

[RW7427]

I remember now the episode in Year 4 where Delenn goes out in a White Star to find the marauder ships and when Lennier tries to contact them he says "they aren't using Interlac, they are speaking Minbari"
I'm sorry I can't remember the name of the episode. But I can see it very clearly in my mind.

That would be Lines of Communication. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[ElScorcho]

It seems that English had become the "universal" language on Earth, not just in the commercial sense. It is obviously the official language of Earthforce, since all the officers speak it. The new Earth president, who was Russian, spoke English. And when Ivanova was talking to her father on his deathbed, they were conversing in English. Otherwise, Garibaldi would not have known what they were saying to each other.

But it is part of the American culture for us to expect foreigners to speak English to us, unlike Europeans who have to learn several languages out of necessity. For instance, Ivanova has difficulty picking up Minbari. And it doesn't seem as if Sheridan ever got around to getting fluent in it. The Rangers seem to be the only ones making the effort. And it seems odd how Delenn calls English the language of commerce because it would be beneficial for business people to learn other languages.

I'd always imagined the Centauri Republic as the Roman Empire if it had lasted. Like the Romans, they would spread their culture throughout the worlds they conquered and declare Centauri the official language. In cases where planets have been occupied for centuries, the races may not even speak their own native languages (like the way third generation immigrants don't learn their grandparents' language). So it's far to say that most Narns can speak Centauri. But like Joe said, they probably refuse to out of spite.

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

And when Ivanova was talking to her father on his deathbed, they were conversing in English. Otherwise, Garibaldi would not have known what they were saying to each other.

You wouldn't need to speak Russian to have understood that Ivanova was talking to her father, that he was terribly ill or that he died at the end of their conversation. And Garibaldi doesn't say anything to Ivanova that indicates specific knowledge of what was said. As with WWII movies I think we can assume that people who share a native language speak that language in private, even if we "hear" English.

But it is part of the American culture for us to expect foreigners to speak English to us, unlike Europeans who have to learn several languages out of necessity.

Not all Europeans speak multiple languages, in some places they are barely educated in their own, so let's bury this cliche right now. Nor is speaking a second language as rare among Americans as rare as the cliche would have it.

And English was beginning to displace French as the language of international diplomacy and commerce before America rose to prominence on the world stage - thanks to the world-girdling British Empire. The dominance of a language, as with other aspects of culture, follows economic, military and political power. Russian used to be the leading second language taught in much of the Third World. Long before the collapse of the Soviet Union many of these same countries saw the writing on the wall and switched to English. 100 years from now it could conceivably be Japanese or a variety of Chinese that is the dominant language, although this seems unlikely for various reasons.

English is the universal "second language" today because the dominant military and economic powers of both 19th and the 20th centuries spoke it, and because their only serious challengers (German and Russian) were both defeated. That kind of continuity of dominance is difficult, but not impossible, to challenge. Then there is the fact that much of the work of science the world over is now conducted in English (taking over from German.) Technology has an effect, too. The airplane and commercial aviation were both born in America, so it is not surprising the English has become the language of international aviation. (The Japanese pilot of a Japanese airliner speaks to a control tower near Tokyo mostly in English, so others monitoring the conversation are aware of any changes in altitude or direction.)

In B5's future Anglo-American culture has remained a leading influence, and English has remained the most-used language. But this doesn't mean that it has replaced French in France, for instance, or become Earth's "official" language.

Regards,

Joe

 

[KoshFan]

Joe, something you said jumped out at me -- about how even when the Minbari were leading the Armies of Light Centauri would have been more commonly spoken. Now something about that bugs me. Wouldn't the Centauri have remembered the wars? I know that they had contact with the Shadows the last time around, but the Shadows are remembered as gods -- implying, to me at least, a certain distance in time. I sort of thought that the Centauri got spaceflight after the war ended and the Minbari had gone reclusive again.