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To the actors ? some thoughts about online forums

drakh

Regular
I'm very glad that cast members already feel enough devotion to show to come here and interact with us fans. However, I don't know if you're entirely aware of what you're getting yourself into. I sorta feel like a party pooper for bringing this up, but it's something I feel has to be said, and I guess being the resident evil alien that task falls to me.

Basically, I want to warn you that by coming here you are making yourself targets. Currently, that isn't noticeable, because the only ones that know or care about the show is the hardcore B5 online community. But as PR steps up, the movie is aired and hopefully the series is commissioned, that will change. People with varying degrees of dislike for the show will show up, and as direct representatives of the series, a lot of that negativity will be directed at you.

There will be people who have legitimate complaints about your performance, and decide that it is The Most Important Thing In the World, and has to be beaten into everyone with all the subtlety and tact of a wrecking ball. There will be people who see Rangers as a "threat" to "their show" (sadly, this might include devoted B5 fans), and will rabidly attack anything that doesn't conform to that vision or takes attention away from it. There will be people who resent your presence here because they see you as wallowing in "mindless fanboy worship". There will be people who get completely hung up on one statement they don't like, and decide that you are a stuck up no-talent egomaniac, and interpreting anything you say in a way that supports their opinion.

And then there will be the people whose lives are so sad and patheic that they can only find validation in the anger they cause in others. They're the trolls, and they will post whatever they think will make you pissed off enough to reply to them (baseless lies and accusations are common, utilising people's natural tendency to distrust). The more "important" you are the better.

Now I'm sure Antony and the moderators will try their best to keep things plesant, but unless they start moderating with an iron fist, things will get through. Things that can get to you. And unless you prepare yourself mentally for that, those things pile up pretty quickly until you can't take it anymore, and leave with the unpleasant memories of online fandom foremost in your mind... like far too many others who've tried to openly interact with their fans.

So, welcome, and enjoy the peace while it lasts. And if you decide to stay beyond that, do so knowing what awaits. If you don?t, I for one won't blame you (I'm just a nobody, and get to pick my online battles - even then things sometimes get to me), because I'd rather you left with good memories rather than bad ones.

I'll end of with part of a message written by some smart guy named Straczynski, who has been online since the early/mid 80s. It was his advice to another showrunner who was thinking of joining fans online. You?re not writers, but I think much of the same applies: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>How you deal with criticism is up to you. We all react differently. Online fans are bracingly blunt in their opinions; this is generally a good thing, except where sometimes some of them forget they're talking to a real person, not a computer screen. But it's a good thing overall. If someone's being unfair, say so, but other than that...you're in for quite a ride.

The good thing about the nets is that it's the great social equalizer. The bad thing about the nets is that it's the great social equalizer. Anyone with a modem has equal access, equal say. Which is terrific. We can be tall, short, fat, skinny, old, young...what matters is the quality of the thoughts and the clarity of their expression.

The flip side of this...if someone came toward you with a bright orange fright wig, dead cats strapped to his chest and a live parrot up his ass, you'd have sufficient warning that this may be a Loony, and thus avoid the person. On the nets, you don't get that kind of advance warning. There are some loonies here. They get the same access as everyone else, they can get on because they bought a modem, but they live for the singular purpose of making your life a living hell, because you have created something, they have created nothing, and they can only live with that contradiction if they tear you down. Some of them are literally psychologically disturbed, and potentially dangerous. And you won't have any notion who they are until one day, after exchanging private or public mail, the dog satellite goes by overhead and they turn on you viciously, start spreading rumors, attacking you in public...and you realize that yep, this person has a parrot up his ass.

Happily, those folks remain the exception rather than the rule. The remaining 99% are fun, and intelligent, and can teach you things about your own show you didn't know were there.

Jump on in...the water's fine.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Just a litte note - please ignore the question mark in the subject... I copied this from Word, and forgot to remove the formating first.]

[This message has been edited by drakh (edited August 03, 2001).]
 
Yeah, he's got a point. For instance, I remember hearing a story about Vincent Ventresca, the star of The Invisible Man on Sci-Fi going online and reading posts by people talking about how ugly that jacket he wears on the show is. So after reading that he got really subconscious and stopped wearing it for a while. And a character that was on that show was blasted by the online fans, too.

I love it that so many of the cast is here. But you all should gird yourselves for the inevitable jerk onslaught. Eventually at least one pricks gonna show up and start talking trash to you all. (A name just popped into my head!) Whether it happens or not, though, don't let it get you down or let it affect your work. Like Vincent Ventresca above, the guy just had to stop reading fan forums because it was making him second-guess his work. I'd hate for any of you to experience something similar.

------------------
Lochley: You know what you are?

Gideon: Ruggedly handsome?

Lochley: A control freak!

Gideon: Can't I be both?
 
I think that if any trolls or flamers come here, Antony will get rid of them real quick--the actors don't have to worry.

Tammy

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I have to add we love hearing from the cast and hope you'll continue to drop in from time to time. But the foregoing warnings are very realistic and you should heed them
frown.gif


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You know what guys, I'm really touched that you would take the time and effort to look out for the cast this way, that really is very kind of you.

I personally have no allusions about how awful and in some cases truly nasty people can get when discussing actors and their performances. I'm pretty thick skinned and honestly expect the worst whenever I start a new project in regard to reviews or criticism. That's just my way of protecting myself, even when I feel I've done a decent job.

I'm just glad the rest of the cast will be reading that so they will have been warned. I don't think you know how devestating that sort of thing can be for an artist until you've gone through it.

I'm sure you'll all understand if some of us disappear for a while if things get paricularly nasty. It's a hard enough business without carrying around that kind of baggage.

Thanks again,
Dylan

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Dylan, the trolls & flamers can upset us, the fans, also. I used to get into it with a particularly nasty troll in one of the B5 newsgroups. I finally had to stop because the guy was upsetting me so much. Hopefully, these idiots won't come here.

Tammy

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Well, I have to say that I already have experienced abit of negative energy towards me from the time word was out that I had the role of "Li Chen" (Kitaro Sasaki), and this person had written some things on these message boards!

I was frequenting the boards at that time and was quite upset to hear this person go on and on about negative things about me! It was extremely obvious that whoever this person was, was just bitter about me getting the role!

There were some things said about me that only the production and friends that I told new about, one of these being the character name change. This person new about that...and like I said, I only told my friends...and of course production knew about it, but did't release that information until the production started! That was an interesting experience for me, and to be honest, I am expecting more of that unfortunately! That is the reality of being in this business...

I have to add, getting into this business, I view my job as an actor as kind of "vehicle" to tell a story (vehicle/puppet so to speak)It's not my story that is being told...the dialogue is not mine personally...ususally, the story has been formulated by an literate genius, and really, it isn't about me at all. It isn't really about the actor in my mind...it is about the audience. The people watching the show. The fans! We (cast), as actors have to make sure that we are contributing the right character choices to tell the story in a believable, interesting way!

The production team have to work at creating the right environment, the right kind of elements to assist our performance.
For me, it is also about the production team...crew...That is where I get my inspiration and motivation to push for excellence in my performance...and I only hope that I did justice to "Live and Die in Starlight", and do justice to the exceptionally talented cast!

So, to make a long story short...Someone made the comment that some individuals will think that by us cast members posting here, we are only feeding our egos...That is not the case for me and I know for a fact that this is not the case for the rest of the cast!

We have come together to tell a story written by a brilliant individual (JMS) and we strived for execellence to our best ability all the while thinking about the fans and what we need to do to entertain and fill their (yours') needs!

Like Dylan said, we (cast) are all aware of the level of excellence that is demanded by "JMS" and the fans in this continuing saga..."Babylon 5"...And that we strived to match and fill the big shoes left behind by the talented cast of "B5"...

"To Live and Die in Starlight"...exactly as stated in the title...that is what we did!

Cheers! -Warren- "Kit"



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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> So, to make a long story short...Someone made the comment that some individuals will think that by us cast members posting here, we are only feeding our egos... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dunno about anybody else, but that's the exact reason I post.
laugh.gif


Seriously, it's nice to know so many of us care about issues like this to address them.

------------------
Sheridan: Are you trying to cheer me up?
Ivanova: No sir, wouldn't dream of it.
Sheridan: Good, I hate being cheered up. It's depressing.
Ivanova: So in that case we're all going to die horrible, painful, lingering deaths.
Sheridan: Thank you, I feel so much better now.
 
I've only seen a couple of flame wars here on this site. As drahk said, that may be because we're all awaiting this with anticipation, not dealing with the reality of it.

Still, I've been on boards that were far, far worse. A Lord of the Rings site comes to mind. Many people there were so eager to jump on any sign that the movies weren't going to reflect what they envisioned while reading the books. So far I haven't seen that level of zealous fanaticism here.

On the rare occasion that things devolve into personal attacks here, the Rangers (moderators) have kept the peace. They make it a nice, fun place to hang out.

Hopefully, we can all help keep it that way.


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"We are all Kosh."

[This message has been edited by taichidave (edited August 03, 2001).]
 
Kitaro, good for you for not letting the idiots keep you down! I am reminded of a fact: when you drive down the highway, instead of cursing that idiotic driver who seems to be on the road only to annoy you, remember he is only 1 and there are many more good drivers. We never notice the good drivers, only the bad one.

In any open forum like this, I would think from time to time someone loud and obnoxious will appear. Please remember they are in the vast minority. Most of us are silly from time to time, but a good group!

When/if that critical know-nothing comes back just remember: he’s sent to make you appreciate everyone else. It's life's way of giving us perspective!
wink.gif
You'll know if you are having a bad day by counting how many times you have to remind yourself of that!
crazy.gif


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"I do not believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense,
reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."-- Galileo
 
It only takes a couple of idiots to spoil it, so the best thing would be to ignore them( as hard as it might seem ) and let the moderators deal with them, I personnally think it is great that the actors can come here and to talk freely with the fans without being harrassed too much
wink.gif


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Emporer Turhan-"How will this end"
Kosh-"In fire"
 
Wow, never knew the cast came here... should start posting more I guess. I think that's great, I love it when stars/writers/producers etc. get involved with the fans. But yeah, there's always gonna be a bad side to things.

JMS for example is constantly on newsgroups for B5, helping fans understand the series better and all that. He's come under fire quite a bit. www.jmsnews.com - Do a search on certain hostile words to find out how he deals with em. I think he's learnt that it is impossible to please everyone, so doesn't try... simply is what he is. I think that's the best way to deal with it, but i'm not famous so my opinion has no value.
laugh.gif
The difference is newsgroups are largely unmoderated and no one can really keep up with everything to keep things cool. While this is a messageboard, where people can get banned, flames edited etc. which makes things a lot more friendly. Also I believe certain board versions have an ignore feature, where you can put a member who displeases you on ignore, so their posts don't show up. Don't think this one has that feature though.

Anyway, I hope you guys can stay and keep in touch with fans.
smile.gif
I can't see how there can be critism all ready though when it hasn't even aired, lol.

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'The brighter the light, the darker the shadow... symmetrys a bitch' - Me

'Remember, light travels faster than sound. That's why some people seem bright until they speak.' - Me
 
Well, there is one thing the actors can take note of. If Trolls do show up, I suspect that more than just the Moderators will tell them:

Only one Troll has ever survived battle with a Minbari fleet. He is in Therapy.
You are in front of me.
If you value your tiny little ego, Be Somewhere Else.
tongue.gif


It might be fun to watch.
laugh.gif


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Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?
 
Melancholy thanks, Drakh, for bringing up a necessary though unpleasant topic.

Having just waxed on about the good company the fans are on another thread, the other side of the coin is very well represented by JMS' post quoted by Drakh.

If you find yourself having to take a breather, it will certainly be understandable, but keep in mind also that these assholes are the minority, and many more of us are ready to stand firm against the assault of the trolls. (Sounds like a section of the new Fantasia film...)
wink.gif


I remember once during Crusade's run on TNT, a group of us actually migrated to a specific board when they were trashing the cast. It was fun.
tongue.gif


Ro

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I have no surviving
enemies. At all.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kitaro Sasaki:

We (cast), as actors have to make sure that we are contributing the right character choices to tell the story in a believable, interesting way!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And, indeed it is the only part over which you have significant control.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>

Like Dylan said, we (cast) are all aware of the level of excellence that is demanded by "JMS" and the fans in this continuing saga..."Babylon 5"...And that we strived to match and fill the big shoes left behind by the talented cast of "B5"...

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just keep in mind that WE can't even agree on what it is we want.

If you have any doubt, check out some of our discussions on the B5 threads. The pendulum swings remarkably wide...

Ro

tongue.gif


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I have no surviving
enemies. At all.
 
Yeah, I remember that thread, Warren. Frankly, I didn't understand what the guy was talking about. He didn't make much sense. Must be rough, though. Well, as Dylan pointed out, sometimes you just gotta grin and bear it.

It's true about not being able to please everyone all the time, though. Hell, there're fans out there who want the ORIGINAL series brought back. Get Sheridan, Delenn, Garibaldi, et. al back on Babylon 5 and continue the series. Or make a Babylon 6, despite the fact that from the beginning Babylon 5 was repeatedly called the last of the Babylon stations.

Personally, I'd like to see Rangers continue as a series, and Crusade to be picked up and both run concurrently with B5 characters making occasional guest appearances. And I'd love to see a crossover between the 2. Crossovers have been done to death, but I just know JMS would do a kickass crossover involving the crews of the Liandra and the Excalibur if both Rangers and Crusade were airing.

But hey, that's just me. I'd like to see that, but I won't hold it against JMS if things don't go how I'd like them to go. Some people, though, when things don't go EXACTLY as they think it should take it all personal and start blaming people. At times like that you just gotta take it in stride, I guess.

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Lochley: You know what you are?

Gideon: Ruggedly handsome?

Lochley: A control freak!

Gideon: Can't I be both?
 
Crusade takes place a few years after Rangers, so I don't know how there could be crossovers between the two. It would be great to see B5 actors on them ,though. At AgamemCon V, Peter Jurasik said he would do a guest-appearance in a Rangers series if it happened & they asked him, but he doesn't know how they could fit Londo in, since he's stuck on Centauri Prime with the Drakh & the keeper.

Tammy



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"We're in here! Can anyone hear us?"
"I hear you." [giggle, laugh]
"In here!"
"We are here." [giggle, laugh]
-- Londo and G'Kar in Babylon 5:"Convictions"
 
Speaking hypothetically, of course, it is very possible to both do a Crusade / Rangers crossover and have every B5 character who is still alive appear.

Cursade begins 2 or 3 years after Rangers begins. So, if Crusade re-appears on TV during Rangers season 3, we would have two series happening at the same time. I believe Joe D suggested the possibility that JMS planned it that way. That is, if Rangers is a success, he could push for Crusade and schedule it the way he wants.

Londo is stuck on Centauri prime, but the Rangers could go on a mission there and encounter Londo. Also, it's not like Londo can't leave the planet. He did visit Sheridan and Delenn at the end of season 5.

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."
 
This is a real quick post, as I'm rushing out again.

But I think:

a) people will be less negative about someone if they know they post here. It's easy to badmouth someone who you know (or think you know) won't read it. I think the fact that the actors are here will have a positive effect.

b) I've not been in B5 fandom when it's active, so I don't know what that's like. I know Star Trek fandom is just a minefield of bitterness and infighting. By what I've seen of B5 fandom so far, it's incredibly positive and polite. I hope it remains that way.


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Dreg: "Most beauteous and supremely magnificent one, this dark spell I hold in my worthless and scabby hand is our gift to you, most tingly and wonderful Glorificus..."
Glory: "Please, call me Glory. And get up, looking at you is hurting my neck."
Dreg: "Forgive me, shiny special one. I beg of you to rip out my inadequate tongue."
Glory: "Gimme."
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Actually, they come in both varieties. Most of them are unmoderated, but somtimes a modertaed one is called for. A moderated one was for example created for B5, after the first one was reduced to a non-stop flame fest to the point where jms decided to leave. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah I know, but... the moderated groups aren't looked after nearly as well as messageboards IMO.
smile.gif
Simply because there's too many posts to kepe up with.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Killfiles (ignoring a poster) are standard on most newsgroup readers, and generally crucial to remainig sane
smile.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No one's completely sane, so I guess the point is moot.
laugh.gif
I'm not much of a newsgrouper as you can probably tell but I've read a few hundred posts regarding newsgroups, if that helps.
smile.gif




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'The brighter the light, the darker the shadow... symmetrys a bitch' - Me

'Remember, light travels faster than sound. That's why some people seem bright until they speak.' - Me
 

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