The Very Long Night of Londo Mollari

[RW7427]

I just watched this episode this evening and I wanted to share a couple thoughts on it.

One thing that I found strange, but never thought much about before was how Delenn appeared to Londo in his dream or whatever as like a tarot card reader. It never struck me as strange until now that Delenn would appear to him in this way, when I don't think that the Minbari were into reading tarot cards to tell a person's future. To me it doesn't seem to fit with their beliefs about life and death and the universe. I thought it was odd that Londo would see her that way. I know the Humans believed in that sort of thing, and probably the Centauri too. But I did not think that the Minbari would.

The second thought I had was how Sheridan appeared to him in the Zocalo. First he had on his EA uniform, then next it was just the pants and a white shirt. After that he had on the uniform that Delenn had made for him when B5 broke away from Earth, and then he was wearing the clothing of Ranger One. Finally just before he left Londo, he was wearing a white hooded robe that looked like the Lamuda, which Shon's parents' people used in season 1 when one of their race died. I had noticed before that each time Sheridan was shown he was wearing something different, but it never really occured to me that the clothing changes represented the changes in Sheridan's life. It was like each outfit stood for a different part of his life. But the more I thought about it, I wondered why they would have Sheridan appear like this to Londo. Is it supposed to be some kind of sign to Londo, and if so, what is the purpose of it? Was the universe trying to show Londo something using Sheridan's different uniforms to illustrate that? I just thought it was kinda odd.

If anyone has any thoughts on these things, I'd be interested to know what they are. Thanks.

 

[Recoil]

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by RW7427:
<font color=yellow>One thing that I found strange, but never thought much about before was how Delenn appeared to Londo in his dream or whatever as like a tarot card reader. It never struck me as strange until now that Delenn would appear to him in this way, when I don't think that the Minbari were into reading tarot cards to tell a person's future. To me it doesn't seem to fit with their beliefs about life and death and the universe. I thought it was odd that Londo would see her that way. I know the Humans believed in that sort of thing, and probably the Centauri too. But I did not think that the Minbari would.</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>
Are you referring to the same Delenn who was spouting on and on about this "Great Prophecy" for the first 3 Seasons of B5? Just curious. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr><font color=yellow>
The second thought I had was how Sheridan appeared to him in the Zocalo. First he had on his EA uniform, then next it was just the pants and a white shirt. After that he had on the uniform that Delenn had made for him when B5 broke away from Earth, and then he was wearing the clothing of Ranger One. Finally just before he left Londo, he was wearing a white hooded robe that looked like the Lamuda, which Shon's parents' people used in season 1 when one of their race died. I had noticed before that each time Sheridan was shown he was wearing something different, but it never really occured to me that the clothing changes represented the changes in Sheridan's life. It was like each outfit stood for a different part of his life. But the more I thought about it, I wondered why they would have Sheridan appear like this to Londo. Is it supposed to be some kind of sign to Londo, and if so, what is the purpose of it? Was the universe trying to show Londo something using Sheridan's different uniforms to illustrate that?</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>
Don't know. Londo and some Centauri seem to have the ability to see the future. Perhaps it was showing him Sheridan's journey for some reason, seeing as Sheridan would be present in Londo's Final Hours. Remember he made a comment in an earlier episode about how he had always felt that Sheridan would be there at the time of his death.

As to WHY this was done, that isnt as clear as the Delenn example and could be debated several ways. One reason _I_ personally think it was done like this was not for Londo's benefit, but for us, the viewers. We got some GREAT forshadowing as to Sheridan's final journey. (Wasn't he a ball of light at the very last part of the scene --- which looked like the same ball of light that the Human entering the Encounter Suit in DoFS turned into?)

 

[A_Ranger]

I think Londo viewed Deleen as a "tarot card" reader becuase Delenn is a wise character. And in Londo's culture, a wise person might be a "tarot card" reader or tell of the future, you might call it. I think Londo, though he might not show it or even think it, knows that Delenn is a wise person; to perceive her as such he intereperets her as something from his culture so that he can relate to it. If it's a figure resembling his culture, he'll probably give it more credibility than if it was Minbari Delenn.

 

[RW7427]

Recoil,

/ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif Uh, yeah we are talking about the same Delenn, I just didn't think that tarot cards were the Minbari's choice to see the future. /ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif

 

[Recoil]

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by RW7427:
<font color=yellow>Recoil,

/ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif Uh, yeah we are talking about the same Delenn, I just didn't think that tarot cards were the Minbari's choice to see the future. /ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>
Never said they were. But a prophecy is a (believed) vision of the future. Tarot cards are supposed to tell the future as well. It is pretty much the same concept here, so it seems like a natural fit that Londo would choose that image I suppose. A crystal ball would have worked too. /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

 

[RW7427]

Yeah, the tarot cards seemed kinda Centauri-ish. /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif

 

[A_M_Swallow]

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by RW7427:
<font color=yellow>{snip} Finally just before he left Londo, he was wearing a white hooded robe that looked like the Lamuda, which Shon's parents' people used in season 1 when one of their race died.{snip}</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

The white robe is also similar to the one Delenn wore at the rebirth ceremony in Season 1 "The Parliament of Dreams" and the first time she met Sheridan when she came out of the Chrysalis. A religious traveling robe that signifies being reborn into a changed form, just before Sheridan becomes a first-one energy creature.

 

[RW7427]

Is that what really happens to Sheridan at Coriana 6?

 

[whitestar90]

Could be RW as Lorien told him he could not return as all the firstones left for the rim and Lorien told him it was time to rest and a new adventure starts.

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I have thought about this one.
There are several logical flaws with that approach.

1. Lorien did not ask what he wanted. Hence there was nothing to ask. Lorien had given part of itself to keep Sheridan alive, and returned to take this part back. Even if Lorien would have asked if he wanted to live outside the galaxy, Sheridan may have declined. If he could have lived, he would have preferred to live with Delenn.

2. Lorien told Delenn that one day, Sheridan would simply stop. To assume that Sheridan did not stop would mean that Lorien lied to Delenn. Knowing that the Minbari do not take lies lightly, doing that would have been an enormous risk. One careless thought, one attentive Shadow to catch it, and the alliance would have shattered.

One lie means more lies. More lies would have made Lorien a careless fool. Who could guarantee that the Shadows or Vorlons would not turn against Lorien, kill it and extract every last lie, presenting them to the younger races to make them choose?

3. Lorien's healing ability was not as wonderful as it seemed. After all, the Shadows could fully heal Morden, but Lorien considered prolonging Sheridans life a great strain. In fact, it could guarantee no more than 20 years. If the simple task of prolonging was hard, transforming into something eternal & complicated would have been billionfold hard.

<font color=yellow>Hence if something of Sheridan continued, it was not due to Lorien. It due to his own actions and choices. Due to stopping the Shadow war and helping to build a better future.</font color=yellow>

 

[Kribu]

I just figured Lorien wanted to get that lifeforce back from Sheridan. /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif
Sort of "well,you've got your 20 years, now give me back what's mine and die!" /ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif

 

[jnk5y]

I think of it as how kosh was living in sheridan, maybe sheridan will live inside of lorien. Or he just dies and lorien takes the body.

 

[Kribu]

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by jnk5y:
<font color=yellow>Or he just dies and lorien takes the body.</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>
And now I got some very awful Pak'ma'ra visuals... /ubbthreads/images/icons/eek.gif ...as in what's Lorien going to do with the body!!! /ubbthreads/images/icons/eek.gif

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Kribu:
<font color=yellow>And now I got some very awful Pak'ma'ra visuals... /ubbthreads/images/icons/eek.gif ...as in what's Lorien going to do with the body!!! /ubbthreads/images/icons/eek.gif</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote> No. No need to get Pak'ma'ra visuals. I think that Sheridan just wanted to disappear, to create some mystery. It was his last strategic move. A move of great value, to ensure the Alliance better chances. Seeking out Lorien suited his plans well.

 

[Kribu]

But that's such a boring explanation!! Lorien having the remains of Sheridan for dinner would be so much better. /ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif

 

[GKarsEye]

Re: Londo's vision of Delenn.

The important thing to remember that about Londo's vision of Delenn is that it was Londo's vision, not a representation of truth. Of course she wouldn't be reading tarot cards, but neither would Londo physically encounter his own heart and yell at it. The whole thing is symbolic.

So what is the symbolic / character relevance of Delenn in this episode? Throughout the series, Delenn acts as Londo's conscience- quietly dissapproving of his decent into the abyss while garnering respect and admiration from Londo, even as a foe. To him, she represents the good forces of the world, and the humanistic embodiement of what Babylon 5 is trying to achieve. He sees his own faults reflected through her, like a prism.

This was marked earlier when he refused to attend her re-birth ceremony. He was subconsciously angry at himself for knowing he wouldn't be able to live up to the meaning behind it and took it out on her (like if you get pissed at your girlfriend when it was you who did something stupid).

Re: Sheridan's many outfits
This has been discussed to death, with all but the simplest explanations given: the white robe doesn't mean any one thing in particular. It is merely a representation of Sheridan's progress as an individual finding his place in the universe. Wereas the uniforms define Sheridan in the context of others, the white robe presents him as a true individual, reaching toward the next step of progress. 46 & 2. Its inclusion in Londo's dream is a visual representation of what the result of the dream will do to Londo: if he apologises and repents, he can accept his past and re-define it outside the confines of his culture or his peers, and understand it with enlightenment and individuality.

 

[Quagmire]

Sheridan as he was, the Sheridan we knew did stop. That doesn't mean that Sheridan in another form couldn't go on, or that helping Sheridan become whatever he became would place the strain on Lorien that maintaining the human Sheridan did.

While it is Londo's vision and not guarantee of truth it was uncanny in its accuracy. After all the same segment of vision also had Sheridan in Entil'Zha garb and we know that comes to pass. The Centauri have been known to have some ability when it comes to predicting the future and visions after all.

 

[jnk5y]

I love the fact that Vir is the one who makes Londo turn around. Anyway it's all just a near death experience. You may see a white light but Londo sees people he knows and an angry Narn.

Kribu, remember Pak'ma'ra prefer cats. Dead cats /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif Lorien probably took the body to a taxidermist who stuffed it and hung it on his living room wall. "oh that, i got that out by Coriana 6. I think it holds the room together."

Oh by the way Sheridan didn't leave b/c of what he told Delenn (well maybe) but went to Coriana 6 b/c Kosh told him to go there in Day of the Dead.

John

 

[Kribu]

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by jnk5y:
<font color=yellow>Kribu, remember Pak'ma'ra prefer cats. Dead cats /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>
And dead Minbari, if I remember correctly... at least that's what everyone thought when that Minbari body went missing. /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif I don't think they're too picky, as long as it's not fish.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr><font color=yellow>Lorien probably took the body to a taxidermist who stuffed it and hung it on his living room wall. "oh that, i got that out by Coriana 6. I think it holds the room together."</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>
Ah, I like that idea as well. /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

 

[RW7427]

Kribu, why are you so negative when it comes to Sheridan? /ubbthreads/images/icons/frown.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif