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The No Speculation Thread - News Posts Only Please

Newsonly: JMS letter-writing for Trek. Recants.

JMS posted on usenet saying that he wanted Trek- and B5-fans to write Paramount pushing for a new Trek show run by JMS and Bryce Zabel. JMS later racanted this particular "Call to Arms" after hearing that Trek was decided to go on hiatus, and having accepted to run a TV show in the fall of 2006.
In the first posting, he also stated that
I have plenty of stuff on my plate through 2007 in TV, film and comics, so that's not an issue. 
(my emphasis)

JMS seems to think that fan letter writing could persuade management at a large entertainment company. I wonder why.

For the posts, and follow-up discussion, see JMS asks for help on a new Star Trek Show(Here on B5TV.com)

More coverage:
<ul type="square">
[*] Straczynski Offers To Re-Boot Star Trek (SlashDot)
[*] Straczynski Backs Down From Trek Campaign (SyFy Portal)
[*] Straczynski Wants To Reboot Trek(ScifiWire)
[*] JMS starts then aborts another ill-conceived fan campaign (IGN)
[*]Yahoo News search
[/list]
 
Re: Newsonly: JMS letter-writing for Trek. Recants.

Considering the talent involved, I have no doubt that Straczynski and Zabel's Trek pitch would be some entertaining television. Considering the combined disasters of Crusade and Legend of the Rangers, JMS would be better off getting Zabel's help fixing the Babylon 5 universe before trying to put their stamp on someone else's franchise.

What help would Zabel possibly bring to fixing say...Crusade?

Seems to me that all JMS needs in that area are:

<ul type="square">[*]Buckets of money to get the actors back.
[*]Buckets of money for top drawer CGI, sets, etc.
[*]Science advisors (including some that are a lot closer to him than JPL, i.e. on-set.), to catch the stuff that JPL doesn't.
[*]Continuity checkers/reference editors (Note: plural). Need a couple different sets of eyes, since no one person catches everything. Preferrably, they should have different backgrounds. e.g Fiona Avery in Archeology, and somebody else in physics/engineering.
[/list]
 
Re: Newsonly: JMS letter-writing for Trek. Recants.

All of the continuity problems that I remember in Crusade were things that were directly caused by TNT Atlanta. JMS always did a pretty good job of keeping the story continuity in the B5 universe straight himself. A couple science advisors couldn't hurt, though.

Really, all Crusade needed at the time was the boatloads of money to stay in continuous production and a distribution outlet that wasn't going out o its way to screw the show up. Given that (and more boatloads of money for better production values couldn't hurt), Crusade would have been fine.

I think that at this point putting back together is a bridge too far, though.
 
Re: Newsonly: JMS gives the word on TMoS

KoshN already posted this elsewhere but I think it belongs here as well:

----------------------begin JMS post-------------
Title: additional from jms
Author: jmsatb5@aol.com
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 00:10:37 +0000 (UTC)


I'm putting this here because the new message threader I sent eaerlier
is taking a while to move through the system. So this info will repeat
soonish on another subject.

jms

-----------------------------------------------

The rule of thumb in Hollywood is that for every thousand scripts that
get written, only a few dozen get into development, and out of those,
only one will ever get made...if that.

A little over a year ago, I was approached by a company that wanted to
make a Babylon 5 movie. They optioned the rights, and commissioned a
script. (It's worth mentioning that I, not WB, own the rights to a B5
movie. When we were negotiating the original B5 deal -- by whose terms
I will never see a dime in profit -- the one thing they did let me have
were the movie rights, figuring they'd never be worth anything in the
long run.)

Anyway...on December 27th of 2003, the script for "The Memory of
Shadows" was turned in, and the process began of trying to make the
deal work with all the various forces involved. It is, to say the
least, a very difficult process on any movie where the studio does not
directly take the financial reins. In terms of B5, Warner's position
was esssentially, "We only do big-budget movies with big names, so
you're on your own." If there were big-name movie actors in the film,
they'd get behind it; without that, things become very problematic,
especially as far as the financing was concerned. You much have to put
together a consortium of international interests and business plans
rivaled in complexity only by the Allied invasion of Normandy Beach.

Nonetheless, every attempt was made by the people involved to get this
deal in place. This was not being done by Doug or myself, but rather
by the company/individuals who approached us and optioned the rights.
At times, it seemed we were inches away from a deal...stages were
reserved at Elstree, actors were contacted, a director was in place,
the script went through many revisions, a few key staff were hired,
again not by me...it was really a year-long roller coaster ride.
During that time, the people involved, with every good intention, tried
very hard to pull the necessary pieces together on the deal. The
option expired in late December 2004, but I renewed it without cost, to
give those involved more time to try and make things work.

In the end, however, the deal could not be put together, and it did not
look as if that was going to change at any point in the foreseeable
future. So the option has reverted, and to all intents and purposes,
the project has dead ended. Nor do I think this particular incarnation
will arise again at any point in the future, though prognostication has
always been a tricky art, especially if you have to do it without the
benefit of hindsight.

This was not the first time someone's taken a run at a B5 feature film,
and it will not be the last. Eventually it will happen, because such
things are simply inevitable. If they can do a Brady Bunch movie, you
can be sure that sooner or later, somebody's going to do a B5 movie.
The only thing I can say without equivocation is that when that day
comes, as the rights-holder, I will make darned sure that it's done
right, because I'd rather have no B5 movie than one that doesn't live
up to what fans and I myself would want to see.

To that end...I can wait.

Anyway, just thought you should know the story.

jms


copyright (c) 2005 by
Synthetic Worlds, Ltd.
Reprint permission specifically
denied to SFX Magazine
-----------------------------------------------

Jan
 
Re: Newsonly: JMS letter-writing for Trek. Recants.

If they can do a Brady Bunch movie, you
can be sure that sooner or later, somebody's going to do a B5 movie.
The only thing I can say without equivocation is that when that day
comes, as the rights-holder, I will make darned sure that it's done
right, because I'd rather have no B5 movie than one that doesn't live
up to what fans and I myself would want to see.

To that end...I can wait.

Anyway, just thought you should know the story.

*Hyp weeps*

Thanks Jan.

And thanks JMS for keeping quality a more important consideration than profit.
 
Re: Newsonly: JMS letter-writing for Trek. Recants

And thanks JMS for keeping quality a more important consideration than profit.

Here, here.

Totaly worth the wait. Babylon 5 took five years of searching before it found a home at Warner Brothers. If it takes another five years (hoping it don't), so be it.
 
Re: Newsonly: JMS letter-writing for Trek. Recants

This IGN story appears to have been written after Mira's convention appearance, but before JMS's posting to the newsgroup:

http://filmforce.ign.com/articles/591/591154p1.html

A campaign by Babylon 5 fans to retain the original cast had been launched weeks ago, then news started floating around that actor Tom Sizemore had been picked to star in the film.

Tom Sizemore??? What the frak are they talking about?
 
Newsonly: JMS: Script is not available.

Newsonly: JMS: Script is not available for shooting. And he can't comment on the campaign yet.

It looks like TMoS is dead. Unless one could BUY the rights to the script from the geezers that tried to make the movie, any new Babylon 5 movie would have to be made with a new script.

And JMS can still not comment on the effect of the letter writing campaign.

> Can you expand on this a little?  Does 'this particular incarnation' mean
> that
> this story (or script), "The Memory of Shadows" isn't likely to ever be
> used?  I really hope that's not what you meant...

I sure hope the movie rights and the script are covered by the same option.
It would be so sad if the option for the movie rights has expired, while
the option for the script hasn't. (Meaning that the script has to be bought
or an all new story has to be written...)
<SNIP>
I know, but if they paid for the script to be done, and they retain
the rights to it, they could try to sell it to someone else if they wanted
to try to produce it.
The only way they could have "kept" it was if they started production
by, as JMS said, December, and then again by some un-specified extension period. They didn't, so it reverted back to Joe.
Not correct.  The script cannot be sold by the other party without the
option.  In contrast, while I have the option again, the script (as the
basis of a film) is owned by the other party and if I were to try and
produce it or if another studio wanted to produce it, they would have
to buy it back from the other party.  Any ancillary use of the script
(such as a novelization) would also require that kind of buy-out.

The only exception to this is that under the WGA's Separation of Rights
Provision, the writer owns the physical script...so the script of any
movie or TV show, produced or otherwise, can be published AS a script,
or copies can be sold, because they are the writer's property.

But all production related rights are off the table.

jms

So basically, all the letters and hype and hatred for Warner Bros. over the past six months was less than pointless, since they had no role in the B5 movie at all. Ironic, really, considering how much in a tizzy some pople were around here.

Your assumption is not valid.  Which is all I can say for the moment.

jms

(JMS message content (c) 2005
by Synthetic Worlds, Ltd.
Rights to reprint specifically
denied to SFX Magazine)
 
Re: Newsonly: JMS gives the word on TMoS

Regarding the letter campaign, he said that the original poster's assumption that it was pointless was invalid.

That's enough for me.

Jan
 
Newsonly: JMS giving B5 movie a rest

Forgive me if you're tired of talking about this right now, but are you currently looking to follow up on this (maybe negotiate deals to put the possibility of making the movie again sometime in the near future), or are you tabling it for now until all the loose ends are tied up?

My own feeling is that, after all that's gone on, best to let it rest
for a year or two, then see what happens.  Gearing up for sometehing
like this takes a lot of time, energy and visceral material, and when
something like this happens, it's best to just take a breather for a
bit.  Besides, there are other fish in need of frying now, and I have
to turn my attention to them.

jms
 
Re: Newsonly: JMS gives the word on TMoS

This news just makes me cherish what we already have in the B5 world even more. :)
 
Re: Newsonly: JMS giving B5 movie a rest

Forgive me if you're tired of talking about this right now, but are you currently looking to follow up on this (maybe negotiate deals to put the possibility of making the movie again sometime in the near future), or are you tabling it for now until all the loose ends are tied up?

My own feeling is that, after all that's gone on, best to let it rest
for a year or two, then see what happens.  Gearing up for sometehing
like this takes a lot of time, energy and visceral material, and when
something like this happens, it's best to just take a breather for a
bit.  Besides, there are other fish in need of frying now, and I have
to turn my attention to them.

jms

The very last thing the B5 universe needs right now is a breather. Time is NOT our friend.

Paul Winfield.
Richard Biggs.
Tim Choate.

Get it?

Hope he's just talking about the movie, and not all things in the B5 universe, because if not, while he's frying other fish, everybody involved with the B5 universe is getting older, and that's if they're lucky. :rolleyes:

If that's his attitude, the B5 universe is as good as dead. In that case, you better look to what we already have, because that's all we're ever going to get. :mad:
 
Re: Newsonly: JMS giving B5 movie a rest

I don't think a B5 revival necessarily needs the original cast, despite the loyalty that JMS feels towards them. In some senses they're even a hindrance. Aside from Lochley, perhaps, those characters have already been broadly played out in terms of their 'journeys' as characters.

I felt slightly disappointed when Richard Biggs appeared in Crusade, and when Andreas Katsulas showed up in Rangers. Yes, it's nice for us the fans to see our beloved characters again, but any new project really needs to stand on its own, build a new audience, and be judged on its own merits, most especially now that so much time has passed..

For example, I am rapidly becoming a fan of Battlestar Galactica, despite not caring two hoots for the original or its cast.. I only hope that any B5 revival will be done with the same originality and panache..
 
Re: Newsonly: JMS giving B5 movie a rest

I don't think a B5 revival necessarily needs the original cast

TMoS or some similar movie plot dealing with untold stories during the vast gap between 2262 and 2281 would hardly constitute a "revival" of Babylon 5, so your point about the original cast is beside the point.

Nobody is planning a "revival" of B5. What JMS has always envisioned (at least for a theatrical film, the only post-seried project over which he would have full control) is a continuation of the original story for the precise purpose of using the original actors in one or two more big adventures.

Nobody is contemplating Babylon 5: The Next Generation. (At one time TNT was, and JMS explicitly turned them down, as he turned down suggestions for a 6th season - which would have been financially undoable anyway, given that everybody's contract was up and they all would have wanted raises - which is how JMS planned it. :)) Remember that shot of C&C and everybody saluting as Sheridan and Delenn depart in the White Star? That was the cast of B5:TNG. I've always thought that was JMS's way of saying, "See, I could do it. I've got the characters in place and a new situation to provide a background. And I ain't gonna. I said five years and out for this show, and I meant it.")

And you're totally missing the point on the new Galactica. That is a remake of a show that went off the air over 25 years ago. Of course the original cast isn't in it (outside of the odd guest shot) - other actors are playing their characters. B5 has been off the air for seven years, less time than elapsed between the end of ST:TOS and the first movie, much less time than the gap between "Objects at Rest" and the timeflashes of "WWE Pt. 2" or "SiL". It isn't like we haven't already established what these characters will be like in the future. New stories set in the B5 universe (as with Crusade and Rangers) may well have new main casts, but it would be odd if they didn't connect with the original show or the shared universe. The Rangers work for the IA, inevitably they are going to encounter members of that government. Crusade was trying to cure an alien plague that was poised to wipe out all life on Earth. You don't think the Chief of Xenobiology for EarthGov - who also happened to be a galaxy-class researcher studying interspecies disease transmission for the IA - would be involved in that quest and be a logical guest star?

Some "facts" have to be acknowledged in such a shared universe if you don't want to turn into Trek and simply throw out your history when it gets too messy. Just as Marvel comics - which sets most of its superhero stories in New York City, not some fiction Everytown - had to deal with September 11th, B5 stories have to deal with the fact of the Shadow War and other wars. They can't stand completely on their own, and they shouldn't.

The last thing I want to see is a Babylon 5 revival or remake. I'd like to see Crusade finished - and given that it barely got started I would not open my wrists if they started over from scratch on that one and left the existing 13 episodes as a TV footnote, like the three or four unsold Love Boat pilots. :) But with B5 I'd just like a few more stories like the Teep War, and a chance for JMS (and the fans) to prove once again that the suits at WB are wrong, and a chance for the actors to get the kind of financial reward they deserve for creating a terrific piece of television history.

Regards,

Joe
 
Re: Newsonly: JMS giving B5 movie a rest

What JMS has always envisioned (at least for a theatrical film, the only post-series project over which he would have full control) is a continuation of the original story for the precise purpose of using the original actors in one or two more big adventures.

And that make a lot of sense.


And you're totally missing the point on the new Galactica. That is a remake of a show that went off the air over 25 years ago. Of course the original cast isn't in it (outside of the odd guest shot) - other actors are playing their characters. B5 has been off the air for seven years, less time than elapsed between the end of ST:TOS and the first movie, much less time than the gap between "Objects at Rest" and the timeflashes of "WWE Pt. 2" or "SiL".

Exactly. The B5/Crusade cast can, in most cases, reprise their roles, but as time goes on, that becomes less and less possible. That's why this "best to let it rest for a year or two, then see what happens. " and "it's best to just take a breather for a bit. Besides, there are other fish in need of frying now, and I have to turn my attention to them." stuff, like there's all the time in the world, gets me so pissed off. :mad: His other fish are minnows, and the 300 lb. tuna (the B5/Crusade universe, not just the movie) is the one that needs the attention.



It isn't like we haven't already established what these characters will be like in the future. New stories set in the B5 universe (as with Crusade and Rangers) may well have new main casts, but it would be odd if they didn't connect with the original show or the shared universe. The Rangers work for the IA, inevitably they are going to encounter members of that government. Crusade was trying to cure an alien plague that was poised to wipe out all life on Earth. You don't think the Chief of Xenobiology for EarthGov - who also happened to be a galaxy-class researcher studying interspecies disease transmission for the IA - would be involved in that quest and be a logical guest star?

Some "facts" have to be acknowledged in such a shared universe if you don't want to turn into Trek and simply throw out your history when it gets too messy. Just as Marvel comics - which sets most of its superhero stories in New York City, not some fiction Everytown - had to deal with September 11th, B5 stories have to deal with the fact of the Shadow War and other wars. They can't stand completely on their own, and they shouldn't.

Such continuity, if done correctly, would be one of the strengths of any B5 theatrical release.




The last thing I want to see is a Babylon 5 revival or remake.

Same here! Although, a Crusade remake, with the same stars, a big budget, and complete creative freedom (no frickin' notes) would be awfully nice.


I'd like to see Crusade finished - and given that it barely got started I would not open my wrists if they started over from scratch on that one and left the existing 13 episodes as a TV footnote,

Then, JMS could do it without all the needless problems caused by the uniform changes, and TNT notes. He could start off with the black uniforms and make the show he wanted to make. My one stipulation would be that he got the same actors to reprise their Crusade roles.

OR he could use the existing Crusade episodes, film new episodes to fill in the blanks, remove TNT looping, and make it all fit together like a Swiss watch, as a new Season 1 of Crusade. That's actually what I'd prefer. That way, we don't lose any of the good stuff we already have, like John Vickery in Appearances and Other Deceits. Maybe he'd be able to get Pat Tallman (and Bill Mumy if the budget was big enough) for The Path of Sorrows, this time. I know that JMS was not going to have Bill in The Path of Sorrows but I'm always happy to see Lennier. If the budget could handle it, why not?


But with B5 I'd just like a few more stories like the Teep War, and a chance for JMS (and the fans) to prove once again that the suits at WB are wrong, and a chance for the actors to get the kind of financial reward they deserve for creating a terrific piece of television history.

Exactly.
 
Re: Newsonly: JMS giving B5 movie a rest

Exactly. The B5/Crusade cast can, in most cases, reprise their roles, but as time goes on, that becomes less and less possible. That's why this "best to let it rest for a year or two, then see what happens. " and "it's best to just take a breather for a bit. Besides, there are other fish in need of frying now, and I have to turn my attention to them." stuff, like there's all the time in the world, gets me so pissed off. :mad: His other fish are minnows, and the 300 lb. tuna (the B5/Crusade universe, not just the movie) is the one that needs the attention.

There are too many burnt fingers at the moment. Let them heal. Then allow "If I was doing it I would have ...." to come into play. Following that is a good time to resurrect the project.
 
Re: Newsonly: JMS giving B5 movie a rest

And personally I don't view JMS's other projects as minnows, not when he can turn out stuff like Midnight Nation.
 

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