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The going of the Shadows?

  • Thread starter **DONOTDELETE**
  • Start date
D

**DONOTDELETE**

Guest
After the great battle at Coriana 6, we only saw their ships phase out into hyperspace... and gone they were. Nobody has ever seen a Shadow since then.

They left their homeworld for their allies, but took most of the technology with them. What became of the Eye? What became of the thousands of battlecrabs and possibly numerous planetkillers? The Drakh were never seen using the worst of Shadow technology (one unfinished planetkiller, simple trinkets like remote control pods).

Have you ever wondered about how the Shadows left, what they did with their technology? Did they take it with them, dismantle or destroy it? Taking everything with them would mean taking thousands of members of the younger races with them. What became of these beings?

Now that I think of it, do we know at all how they travel? Oh yes, they have Shadow vessels. From the technomage books we know that these can carry passengers... but we have never seen a Shadow traveling.

I somehow doubt if they would use a Shadow vessel for personal transport. It seems weak, too simple for them.

Neither do we know if a battlecrab can function without someone wired into it. Would a Shadow going beyond the rim want a Narn, Human or Drazi piloting its ship? I would guess not.

The Shadows doubtlessly needed to travel long before the younger races appeared. A long time before the current version of Shadow vessels existed. How do they do it? Like Lorien, without any ships? Do they simply think themselves away, dive into hyperspace and move with telekinesis?

Or do they have ships? Has anyone heard of such ships? In fan fiction, books or the series itself? I am asking because I'm gathering ideas about the Shadow way of life. I have one of them as a character in a little story I've been writing.

[This message has been edited by Lennier (edited December 01, 2001).]
 
Why should we assume the Shadows are unable to load all the furniture into boxes and take them aboard a ship?

Or that their battle ships don't have room for lots of passengers??

The most likely thing is that each Shadow has a Personal transport, just as the Vorlon's do.
After all, it's doubtful that they spend ALL their time running around messing with the younger races.
In between wars, they undoubtedly have "hobbies" and the "Shadow Club Ned" to vacation at.
Any race that advanced would take personal freedom for granted.
Personal freedom means transportation that is available whenever the individual want to go somewhere.
Each Shadow "family" certainly has a ShadowVolvo parked in the driveway. The wealthy ones probably also have a ShadowBMW for the husband.
Or perhaps a ShadowPorsche.
You know how Mid Life Crisis makes them behave.
Out zooming around in the sportsship when they should be tending to business.
Probably took the Secretary along for the ride, too.

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------------------
The 3 most common elements in the Universe:
Hydrogen, Greed, Stupidity!
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lennier:
After the great battle at Coriana 6, we only saw their ships phase out into hyperspace... and gone they were. Nobody has ever seen a Shadow since then.

They left their homeworld for their allies, but took most of the technology with them. What became of the Eye?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Probably took it with them.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lennier:
What became of the thousands of battlecrabs
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

1. We don't know there were thousands.
2. Took them with them.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lennier:

and possibly numerous planetkillers?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Left them behind for the Drakh to play with.
Read the Centauri Prime Trilogy, and look for X'Ha'dam. The Shadows could always make more if they wanted to do so.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lennier:

The Drakh were never seen using the worst of Shadow technology (one unfinished planetkiller, simple trinkets like remote control pods).
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Read the Centauri Prime Trilogy, and look for X'Ha'dam.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lennier:

Have you ever wondered about how the Shadows left, what they did with their technology? Did they take it with them, dismantle or destroy it?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Took some of it with them and left the rest behind for the Drakh.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lennier:

Taking everything with them would mean taking thousands of members of the younger races with them. What became of these beings?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They're the central computers of the battlecrabs. Why remove them and have non-functioning battlecrabs?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lennier:

Now that I think of it, do we know at all how they travel? Oh yes, they have Shadow vessels. From the technomage books we know that these can carry passengers... but we have never seen a Shadow traveling.

I somehow doubt if they would use a Shadow vessel for personal transport. It seems weak, too simple for them.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why? (See last paragraph below.)


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lennier:

Neither do we know if a battlecrab can function without someone wired into it. Would a Shadow going beyond the rim want a Narn, Human or Drazi piloting its ship? I would guess not.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why not? They're nothing more than the computer that's wired into your car.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lennier:

The Shadows doubtlessly needed to travel long before the younger races appeared. A long time before the current version of Shadow vessels existed. How do they do it?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They created the shadow vessels for this purpose. These have probably been perfected over time, though some stagnation might have taken place, since necessity *is* the mother of invention. Without anything to really challenge them, they may have stagnated.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lennier:

Like Lorien, without any ships? Do they simply think themselves away, dive into hyperspace and move with telekinesis?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, they're not as evolved as Lorien.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lennier:

Or do they have ships? Has anyone heard of such ships?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They have the Shadow Vessels. The only reason they didn't destroy the younger races was that they were trying to guide the younger races, not exterminate them. However, if a Shadow Battlecrab had actual Shadows aboard, do you think they would have any compunction about destroying anybody who threatened them? I don't.


------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 19, 2002 at 9PM on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bakana:
Any race that advanced would take personal freedom for granted.
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<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think the Shadows subjugate the individual to the whole, including individual Shadows.

------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 19, 2002 at 9PM on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>The only reason they didn't destroy the younger races was that they were trying to guide the younger races, not exterminate them.

---

Why not? They're nothing more than the computer that's wired into your car.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The first I have understood for more than a while. The second I believe to be more complicated, for two reasons.

A living member of the younger races would be a very exotic "computer" - something you can't replace outside this galaxy. In a ship which goes insane on computer malfunction, this would be a bad idea. For beings who live for millions of years, a "computer" lasting a hundred years would not be enough. There are no younger races in the intergalactic void.

Secondly I have understood that the Shadows considered the younger races sentients like themselves, only incredibly more short-lived and incredibly less advanced. Wishing to guide someone contradicts considering them "simply a computer".

I suspect that the Shadows considered taking some individuals for their ships to be "the price of evolution" to be payed by each species they "helped". They did not consider the younger races machine parts, but neither did they respect their individual freedom or well-being.

But this is strangely contradictory with the Shadow idology that individual ambition promotes growth.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>However, if a Shadow Battlecrab had actual Shadows aboard, do you think they would have any compunction about destroying anybody who threatened them? I don't.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This was not what I doubted. Neither would I think differently.

What puzzles me is this: the design of a battlecrab has been perfected for being controlled via a member of the younger races, the interface for controlling the ship has been made for this purpose.

I do not doubt that Shadow could control a battlecrab (either via tech or by thought). What I doubt is if this is feasible. You can certainly replace "switches and wires" to get a ship which a Shadow can use for personal transport, but that would be a clumsy solution. I doubt if they would care to continuously re-fit battlecrabs for one or another purpose.

What I hope is to find is information about how individual Shadows travel -- with an ordinary battlecrab as passangers, by piloting a computerless battlecrab with thought, using a yet unseen "shadow personal transport" or an entirely different way of transportation.

Unfortunately I have found no definitive answer.

[This message has been edited by Lennier (edited December 01, 2001).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>I think the Shadows subjugate the individual to the whole, including individual Shadows.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Then there would be Shadow civil wars which would destroy half the galaxy every week. Remember that these are the beings who ask "what do you want".

They consider personal ambition and desires the driving force of development. They believe in the power of getting what you want. From those younger races who answer their question, they exact a collective price. But they are likely to go very far for their own personal choices.

Shadow society is quite likely based on "let them have what they want, as far as it doesn't interfere with what I want". Otherwise their internal disagreements would produce a endless and continuous conflict.

------------------
"We are the universe, trying to figure itself out.
Unfortunately we as software lack any coherent documentation."
-- Delenn
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lennier:
The first I have understood for more than a while. The second I believe to be more complicated, for two reasons.

First -- it would be an extremely exotic "computer" which you can not replace when out of this galaxy. In a ship which goes insane if the computer malfunctions. There are no younger races in the intergalactic void.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The CPUs would not go insane. The only ones who went insane were those that entered a battlecrab without being properly prepared (the ones that Earthforce tried to put into battlecrabs, or shadow hybrids. The ones in Shadow Vessels when they left Coriana 6, would have been properly prepared (all implants installed, and working fine).


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lennier:

Secondly I have understood that the Shadows considered the younger races sentients like themselves, only incredibly less advanced. Wishing to guide someone also contradicts considering them "simply a computer".
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Shadows wanted to guide "the whole" (the entire race), and don't care about individuals. To them, the CPUs are nothing but components for their ships. Also, who's to say they didn't take spare components with them when they left?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lennier:
I actually suspect that the Shadows considered taking some individuals for their ships to be the "price" of evolution, to be payed by each species they "helped". They did not consider the younger races machine parts, but neither did they respect their freedom or well-being.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They considered "individual members" of the younger races to be exactly that, machine parts. They value the younger races only as a whole, not as individuals.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lennier:
This was not what I doubted. Neither would I think differently.

What puzzles me is this: the design of a battlecrab has been perfected for being controlled via a member of the younger races, the interface for controlling the ship has been made for this purpose.

I do not doubt that Shadow could control a battlecrab (either via tech or by thought). What I doubt is if this is feasible. You can certainly replace "switches and wires" to get a ship which a Shadow can use for personal transport, but that would be a clumsy solution. I doubt if they would care to continuously re-fit battlecrabs for one or another purpose.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Shadows controlled their ships via The Eye. This is tech that they probably took with them. The CPUs are necessary parts between The Eye and the ships. The CPUs are what keeps the ships systems functioning, mundane operations that no Shadow would do themselves.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lennier:

What I hope is to find is information about how individual Shadows travel -- with an ordinary battlecrab as passangers, by piloting a computerless battlecrab with thought, using a yet unseen "shadow personal transport" or an entirely different way of transportation.

Unfortunately I have found no definitive answer.

[This message has been edited by Lennier (edited December 01, 2001).]
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

JMS will probably never tell.

------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 19, 2002 at 9PM on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lennier:
Then there would be Shadow civil wars which would destroy half the galaxy every week. Remember that these are the beings who ask "what do you want".
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They promote chaos without, not within their own ranks. The Shadows remind me of ants. Do you think the rest of the ants care when one ant gets killed? No, they sub in another ant to do the job of the one that got killed.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lennier:

They consider personal ambition and desires the driving force of development. They believe in the power of getting what you want. From those younger races who answer their question, they exact a collective price. But they are likely to go very far for their own personal choices.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's without, not within. They already consider themselves as evolved.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lennier:

Shadow society is quite likely based on "let them have what they want, as far as it doesn't interfere with what I want". Otherwise their internal disagreements would produce a endless and continuous conflict.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I view it as a hive mind. Individuality is subjugated.

------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 19, 2002 at 9PM on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>JMS will probably never tell.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

:: a sleepy Shadow sigh ::

But that's the fun part of the thing, isn't it?
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So in the end we don't know. And I have this strange feeling that if we were to succeed in asking JMS, he would provide either the Vorlon or the Shadow answer.

Vorlon: Good. The truth points to itself.
wink.gif

Shadow: I like to cause a little speculation.
laugh.gif


[This message has been edited by Lennier (edited December 01, 2001).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lennier:
:: a sleepy Shadow sigh ::

But that's the fun part of the thing, isn't it?
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<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fun? I don't know about that. Maddening, maybe. I suspect it's part JMS wanting to maintain a bit of mystery (that everything has not been explained, as G'Kar says), and part because we're looking too closely, looking for answers JMS never intended (or possibly intends), to give.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lennier:

So in the end we don't know. And I have this strange feeling that if we were to succeed in asking JMS, he would provide either the Vorlon or the Shadow answer.

Vorlon: Good. The truth points to itself.
wink.gif

Shadow: I like to cause a little speculation.
laugh.gif


[This message has been edited by Lennier (edited December 01, 2001).]
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We'll probably find out the answers to some (not all) of these questions in B5:LotR-The Series.
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If we get an answer, I'm betting on a Vorlon one.
wink.gif


------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 19, 2002 at 9PM on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/
 
I reckon that they took their ships with them but could not take manufactoring sites but left them hidden....

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"When it is time, come to this place, call our name, we will be here" -Walkers of Sigma957
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>What I hope is to find is information about how individual Shadows travel -- with an ordinary battlecrab as passangers, by piloting a computerless battlecrab with thought, using a yet unseen "shadow personal transport" or an entirely different way of transportation.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Weelll...
In ancient times, Shadows piloted their ships themselves. Plugged themselves into the control matrix, and in effect "became" the ship. A Shadow in charge also made the ship as good as invulvnerable to telepathic interferece (only Lorien, the Triad and the master telepaths of the Mindriders could still try to jam them with any chance of success)
These ships looked much like normal "Battlecrabs", a bit larger and with extra tendrils; and were better build than the current ShadowShips, with more powerful weapons and stronger defenses (took longer to finish - which is why they didn't waste these better ships on CPU fleets)

Now to return to the topic at hand - the Shadows could have taken the YR CPU's out of their ships and piloted them beyond the rim themselves, and I think they would have. Even if these ships are not up to the standards of what they flew in ancient times, they probably would prefer to pilot a lesser ship then to fly as passenger in one that can be disabled by any passing telepath... and by the time they went to the rim they had a large fleet while as first ones they had a low population - so they should have little transport problems there (even if they probably would find it annoying to fly in the smaller of their ships, like Scout-type hulls)

The interesting question is - what did they do with all those who worked for them in one or the other way when they left for the rim???
We know about the Drakh, but what about the other Shadow allies (the Drakh can't have been the only ones)? What about people like Morden's (he also can't have been the only one - there was at least his colleague who warned Londo to leave B5 before the Shadows visited it in "Z'ha'dum", and Justin)? What about all the leftover "CPU's"?
Since the Drakh were left behind, I assume all the others are also still wandering around...


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>I reckon that they took their ships with them but could not take manufactoring sites but left them hidden....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
True to some extent. I am still not entirely convinced there Were shipyards for ShadowShips...
Remember the buried ships? Why do the Shadows bury their ships? They could easily find a better way to hide them, if that is what this is about; but I think differently!
What if this is their way of building ships? Think about it, a shadow vessel shoots a packet of nano-machines into a planet of moon, where they multiply and start to build a shadow ship - minus the central control matrix, which is provided later by inserting the "pilot". After the ship is finished, it lies dormant until the shadows call, or it is exposed to sunlight, at which time it sends out an automated call to it's masters, who come, complete it with it's "CPU", and take it with them. This way perfectly fits the shadows active/inactive periods; it allows them to field massive fleets in little time - after all, they were "seeded" during their last active period (and shooting a tiny nanotech-projectile into a planet or moon doesn't require much time) and "grew" into big, bad shadow vessels during their dormant period. This would also explain why they insert sentients as control matrix, instead of just building an artificial intelligence (which supposedly is the way vorlon ships are build, or grown, or whatever), since an AI might require some time to reach full decision capability, "adulthood" if you will (it takes humans a couple of years, too), while a adult sentient being chosen to fill this slot has had this time. So, upon awakening the shadows just have to send out a call to their buried ships, abduct some beings and field a impressive fleet in record time.

What they Did leave behind are fixed outposts, like their planet-sized starbase/PK construction facility "Xha'dam", and their installations on diverse planets on the rim. Some of those may be in hands or former Shadow allies, like the Drakh, while some will be inactive until someone stumbles over them...
"The giants have left the playground, but they left their toys behind..."

------------------
"ShadowScout"
Roman Alexander

"Go on, watch out for Shadows - we'll watch you right back!"

What do you want?
ShadowShips!
 
When it comes to the idea of the CPUs in the Shadow ships dying of old age, it's not a problem.
Just as the Vorlons can keep Jack the Ripper alive for as long as they need him, so the Shadows can keep a member of a younger race alive indefinitely, barring accident or injury.
One of the hallmarks of a "First One" race is that they Know the secrets of Immortality.
Lorien's race and their contemporaries were born immortal.
The races which followed (Vorlons and Shadows included) had to Learn and Evolve.

The way the Shadows restored Morden to health in just a few weeks after what had to be near fatal burns is an indication of just how good their medical treatments are.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> but we have never seen a Shadow traveling.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure we have. Morden was Never alone.
He always traveled with a Shadow escort.
We usually saw 2 or 4 of them with him.

While we never saw them aboard a transport vessel, we Did see Morden coming and going from Babylon 5 via commercial transport.
QED, the Shadows were aboard those transports with him.



------------------
The 3 most common elements in the Universe:
Hydrogen, Greed, Stupidity!
 
Some very interesting ideas, ShadowScout and Bakana!

As for keeping a Shadow vessel's "pilot" alive... I somehow doubt if a battlecrab contains much medical stuff. If it can't protect its "pilot" from simple problems like pain, would it really do anything against a serious problem like aging?

As mentioned before, it is an inexpensive solution. You let it grow, use it, and then throw it away. Battlecrabs were rarely meant to serve long. Shadow wars never seemed to last longer than a century at a time. Which would mean that a "pilot" whose life can be extended slightly would be more than sufficient.

Yes, the Shadows would know how to keep a member of the younger races alive for a very long time. But I doubt if they ever bothered. Preserving something would contradict their obsession with evolution. Their entire system was based on two principles:

1. There would always be enough "processors" available.
2. Their allies would provide these in exchange for favours.

[This message has been edited by Lennier (edited December 02, 2001).]
 
wink.gif
..If you went beyond the rim - what would you leave?...pizza crust and a beer can?..
smile.gif


Gary

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ShadowScout:
Weelll...
In ancient times, Shadows piloted their ships themselves. Plugged themselves into the control matrix, and in effect "became" the ship. A Shadow in charge also made the ship as good as invulvnerable to telepathic interferece (only Lorien, the Triad and the master telepaths of the Mindriders could still try to jam them with any chance of success)
These ships looked much like normal "Battlecrabs", a bit larger and with extra tendrils; and were better build than the current ShadowShips, with more powerful weapons and stronger defenses (took longer to finish - which is why they didn't waste these better ships on CPU fleets)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe we better take this to Fanfic.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ShadowScout:

What if this is their way of building ships? Think about it, a shadow vessel shoots a packet of nano-machines into a planet of moon, where they multiply and start to build a shadow ship - minus the central control matrix, which is provided later by inserting the "pilot". After the ship is finished, it lies dormant until the shadows call, or it is exposed to sunlight, at which time it sends out an automated call to it's masters, who come, complete it with it's "CPU", and take it with them. This way perfectly fits the shadows active/inactive periods;
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Interesting idea.

------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 19, 2002 at 9PM on The Sci-Fi Channel. http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited December 02, 2001).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lennier:
Some very interesting ideas, ShadowScout and Bakana!

As for keeping a Shadow vessel's "pilot" alive... I somehow doubt if a battlecrab contains much medical stuff. If it can't protect its "pilot" from simple problems like pain, would it really do anything against a serious problem like aging?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pain affects both the ship and the CPU being. It's something that affects the ship from the outside. Aging of the CPU is something that happens internal to the CPU being, and could be prevented or at least dramatically slowed.

The ships probably use something like

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>Technomage organelles</font></td></tr></table>

to keep the CPU healthy. After all the

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>organelles</font></td></tr></table>

are ShadowTech.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lennier:

As mentioned before, it is an inexpensive solution. You let it grow, use it, and then throw it away. Battlecrabs were rarely meant to serve long. Shadow wars never seemed to last longer than a century at a time. Which would mean that a "pilot" whose life can be extended slightly would be more than sufficient.

Yes, the Shadows would know how to keep a member of the younger races alive for a very long time. But I doubt if they ever bothered. Preserving something would contradict their obsession with evolution. Their entire system was based on two principles:

1. There would always be enough "processors" available.
2. Their allies would provide these in exchange for favours.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The ally races never provided processors willingly (except maybe for Psi Corps), and even those CPUs didn't go willingly.

Each CPU has to be prepared. This takes time, effort, and resources, and maybe the Shadow ally race of doctors is needed for this.

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>They re-used Anna after her ship had been attacked by Galen. They pulled her out of her crippled ship, and this was before they knew of her connection to Sheridan. Why didn't they just destroy her crippled ship with her in it after she'd crashed, or leave her there to die, or maybe her ship to rejuvenate around her? To not re-use Anna would have been a waste of resources.</font></td></tr></table>

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KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 19, 2002 at 9PM on The Sci-Fi Channel. http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited December 02, 2001).]
 
<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black> Lyta destroyed Z'Ha'Dum in "Epiphanies" a week after the Shadow War ended. This prevents most of their big technology being used. </font></td></tr></table>



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Andrew Swallow
 
<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black> Nothing important in here. I just wanted to add another spoiler box to this spoiler-infested thread.

And it makes me look smart too. I mean, think about it, those who don't want to be spoiled don't read it, but it still looks like I know something because I put a spoiler box around it.

Well, I gotta read the corps and Centauri trilogies before I start the TM ones. Won't get the third until Christmas.

Oh, and if you go to UCCS, don't, I repeat DON'T take a class with Kalita or Badal. Nice guys, but they don't quite have good teaching methods.

I just uploaded 2 new pics of my dog on my web page. The last one looks very funny.

This also looks long, so it looks like I know A LOT. I'm so smart. And I have a good avatar too. Ahhh, life is good...</font></td></tr></table>



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Sheridan: Are you trying to cheer me up?
Ivanova: No sir, wouldn't dream of it.
Sheridan: Good, I hate being cheered up. It's depressing.
Ivanova: So in that case we're all going to die horrible, painful, lingering deaths.
Sheridan: Thank you, I feel so much better now.
 
I will not spoil the details for anyone who has not read the Centauri trilogy, but I will say that in one of those books, the Drakh plan to use a planet killer that the Shadows left behind.

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Lorien: Who are you?
RW: The salad man.
Lorien: Why are you here?
RW: To be the salad ambassador.
Lorien: What do you want?
RW: Everyone to know the joys of salad.
Lorien: Do you have anything worth living for?
RW: Yes, my salad bars.
 

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