the fall of the night

[Shaal Mayan]

I was watching this episode on dvd and I have a question .At the end the centauri who set the bomb on the transport that Sheridan was taking to make the apology to the centauri people.Did Londo Mollari know in advance that his government or people were going to try and kill Sheridan ?

 

[KoshN]

I was watching this episode on dvd and I have a question .At the end the centauri who set the bomb on the transport that Sheridan was taking to make the apology to the centauri people.Did Londo Mollari know in advance that his government or people were going to try and kill Sheridan ?

I seriously doubt it.

 

[grumbler]

Ya know, I always assumed that it was Welles and the Nightwatch who set that up, and the Centauri were just their dupes. remember how pleased Welles sounded at the idea of getting someone "more... sympathetic" in command of B5?

I also mostly assumed that that is what everyone else assumed as well. Shows you the dangers in "assuming!"

It is an interesting question...

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I kind of doubt Londo was in on it. Even given the hostilities that had just taken place, killing Sheridan at that point would have seriously damaged the nonagression treaty Earth and the Centauri had just signed. Londo wanted the public apology - something he would see as far more valuable to the Centauri. A live, humbled human war hero eating crow for conducting cowboy diplomacy is bad for Earthforce morale. An assassinated Earthforce hero, OTOH, might wake the human public up, perhaps even make some remember their history and question the wisdom of repeating it.

V/R
John

 

[RW7427]

Ya know, I always assumed that it was Welles and the Nightwatch who set that up, and the Centauri were just their dupes. remember how pleased Welles sounded at the idea of getting someone "more... sympathetic" in command of B5?

I also mostly assumed that that is what everyone else assumed as well. Shows you the dangers in "assuming!"

It is an interesting question...

Hmmmm....Welles and Nigthwatch in on it? I never considered that. Interesting idea. I just figured it was a few radical Centauri who knew that Sheridan was showing pro-Narn tendencies.

 

[grumbler]

Hmmmm....Welles and Nigthwatch in on it? I never considered that. Interesting idea. I just figured it was a few radical Centauri who knew that Sheridan was showing pro-Narn tendencies.

If you follow the old principal of "qui bono?" = "who benefits?" then you can see that the Centauri have no reason at all to believe that any successor on B5 would favor their cause. Welles and company knew, though, that they had the power to make Sheridan's replacement "one of them" so to speak.

I have no evidence that Welles and the Nightwatch had anything to do with it... yet I remain persuaded that they did. I just wish Mr. Welles didn't sound so much like a certain Minbari warrier... (makeup doesn't disguise a very distinguishing voice).

 

[PillowRock]

I don't think that Welles & Co. would have benefitted from Sheridan's death at that time. It would have been far better for them to have the "Star Killer" submit to them publically, through the apology, than to have him die with his last act being the heroic and defiant defense of the underdog. They can always quietly remove him later, if he shows any signs of further defiance .... but at a time when the last *public* image of him is his going along with Nightwatch policy.

Unless you think that Welles knew about exactly what kind of "apology" Sheridan was planning on giving .....
I don't, because if his quarters were bugged to pick up that proctice speech then Nightwatch would also know about a lot of other stuff that they are clearly unaware of.

you can see that the Centauri have no reason at all to believe that any successor on B5 would favor their cause.

That argument is completely valid if we are talking about an assassination attempt sponsored by the Centauri government. I agree that they were not behind it.

However, it is just as completely irrelevant if we are talking about a really ticked off individual or small group.

 

[grumbler]

However, it is just as completely irrelevant if we are talking about a really ticked off individual or small group.

I think a few moments of reflection on the assassination will make convince you that it could not have been a "ticked off individual or small group." First of all, how would they have obtained such a sophisticated explosive device (or any explosives at all) on babylon 5, or how could they have gotten it onboard if they obtained it elsewhere?

How could someone who had just gotten irritated with Sheridan a few hours ago have been able to predict with such accuracy where he could be "gotten?"

How could a "ticked off individual or small group" have perfected their timing in such a short time (and the timing was very tight)?

How could a "ticked off individual or small group" ensure that Sheridan was alone on the shuttle when it blew up?

No, this was a very well-thought-out and large conspiracy. It could not have been improvised from scratch in the few hours between the battle with the Centauri and the destruction of the shuttle. It had to have been carried out by people who had been preparing for action and who only needed to be directed the target and already had training in the means used. And only MiniPax had considered Sheridan a menace until a few hours before the attack.

Given that it clearly was better for Welles and Co to have their own guy in charge of B5, and given that the timing was perfect to throw the blame on the Centauri, they had every reason to try to take out Sheridan and no reason NOT to take him out. The reason why they didn't "take him out later" as you suggest they could have if he was again defiant (and he did object to MiniPax policies later on) was because they never again had the dupes they had in TFoN. Killing him later would raise the question of who had motive to kill him. Killing him right after the battle with the Centauri would have provided the perfect "tethered goat" for MiniPax.

 

[Jade Jaguar]

Although I find what both you and Pillow Rock say to be plausible, and reasonable, I think that you're both reading way to much into it. Within the context of the EP, I think it is very clear that the bombing is done by Centauris as retaliation for Sheridan destroying their ship, and interfering with their pursuit of the Narns. I don't think that Londo knew anything about it, or would have approved it. I don't think that the fact that Sheridan was left on the car alone was necessarily planned, but a plot device to avoid complications, such as Kosh having to 'decide' to save only one, and look less angelic. It was probably public knowledge when and where Sheridan was going to make his 'apology,' and any knowledgeable Centauri could figure out his route. The need for the explosive is the only thing which would require much pre-planning. There could be many ways to explain it being available, given the current political climate. Refa could have a cell there. Or, the explosives could have been meant for any sort of a terrorist act, such as against the Narns on the station, and used for the previously unplanned retaliation instead. I don't think that the EP hints at any particular explanation for the explosives being available.

 

[grumbler]

JJ, what you say is probably true, but "not much fun." After all, the same argument can be made that "this is just a TV show" and so spending any time on internet boards discussing it is "reading too much into it."

Sometimes things look more complex than they are, but with JMS you cannot always count on that. Like the mystery of who really set up Sinclair in TG, this mystery doesn't need to be solved for the show to "work" but it is fun to speculate.

 

[phoenixrising]

Another thing to consider,how did they get the explosives on the station? No weapons, other than those issued to station personnel, are supposed to be allowed on B5.

Makes you wonder if Nightwatch had a hand in this.

 

[grumbler]

Another thing to consider,how did they get the explosives on the station? No weapons, other than those issued to station personnel, are supposed to be allowed on B5.

Makes you wonder if Nightwatch had a hand in this.

Yeah, I pointed that out earlier, and it is hard to argue that Londo didn't know about this plot if they sneaked the explosives on the station as part of a diplomatic shipment (and we know that even diplomatic shipments are subject to weapons searches). Whose shipments were the only plausably immune ones? Those of MiniPax, with their onboard sympathizers.

Also, how do we know that the perps were even Centauri? They looked like Centauri, but there is evidence to suggest that humans could be made up to look like convincing Centauri.

No, I say it was MiniPax. They had motive, means, and opportunity (because they had the most advance notice of where the speech would take place, having chosen it themselves). In fact, it is entirely possible that they came on the station prepared to assassinate Sheridan, and that the only change they ever made in their plan was to have their agents disguise themselves as Centauri.

 

[Shaal Mayan]

Quote:
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Ya know, I always assumed that it was Welles and the Nightwatch who set that up, and the Centauri were just their dupes. remember how pleased Welles sounded at the idea of getting someone "more... sympathetic" in command of B5?

I also mostly assumed that that is what everyone else assumed as well. Shows you the dangers in "assuming!"

It is an interesting question...


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Hmmmm....Welles and Nigthwatch in on it? I never considered that. Interesting idea. I just figured it was a few radical Centauri who knew that Sheridan was showing pro-Narn tendencies.

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Iam sorry now even bothered to ask a simple question I won't make the same mistake twice.

 

[RW7427]

Hmmmm....Welles and Nigthwatch in on it? I never considered that. Interesting idea. I just figured it was a few radical Centauri who knew that Sheridan was showing pro-Narn tendencies.

That's what I said.