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The Dark Knight (Spoilers)



How can we have two threads on this site about a 15 minute Internet short "Dr Horrible" but not have a SINGLE thread yet about the new Batman movie?!?!? Sick and wrong people, sick and wrong.

I just got back from seeing this. The movie was BAD ASS. Best movie I have seen this year for sure. It also more than lived up to its predecessor, Batman Begins.

I realize that Heath Ledgers passing may have added a bit to the hype of this movie...but sorry folks, he really did deliver the goods in this one. His portrayal of the Joker is nothing short of fantastic. There was talk BEFORE his passing on how brilliant he played the Joker. My only hope is that people don't think he gets recognition for this role because of his death. That would be a shame. He really did do a fantastic job.

Also, Maggie Gyllenhall > Katie Holmes in the role of Rachel Dawes.

I also loved the story. The movie was as long as the first movie...but broken into almost 3 mini-parts that did feel different. I think everything came together well and each had its importance. This movie didn't hold back on anything...and through the movie you didn't feel like you were watching another superhero movie....just a good movie.

I think one of my favorite parts (Spoilers following) was near the end...where the Joker wired the two boats with explosives --- one containing some of Gotham's citizens trying to escape, and the other Gotham's criminals that Harvey Dent put away. He told both boats that the trigger they had was for the other one...and that they had till midnight or he would blow them both up...but if one boat blew the other boat up then they would live. This part of the movie did so many things. I thought it was great how the one criminal stepped forward saying that he would do what the police officer couldn't....then proceeded to toss their trigger out the window. I also thought it was interesting how the boat of civilians had an almost 3:1 margin in favor of blowing up the boat of criminals. One part of me was expecting the following end to this scene: I thought the boat of civilians, after voting in favor of pulling the trigger, were going to pull the trigger and it would turn out that each boats trigger was wired to their own boat. So they will have voted to kill the other guys, condemning themselves. The reason I think this is that the Joker did a similar "switcheroo" with Harvey Dent and Rachel Dawes. It would fit his character well. So that was what I was expecting....and honestly was a tad diaspoointed when it didnt play out that way. As it played out, the guy who was the most outspoken about pulling the trigger made a comment like "no one wants to get their hands dirty? OK, Ill do it" then he stepped up....but ultimately couldn't bring himself to do it either. After thinking about it, to me this says two things. One...that when it comes down to it there is still decency in people (Gotham citizens in this case) which was a key part of the rest of the movie. The other part I personally think is a good commentary on people in general. Everyone wants to sit back and say how things should be, and point out problems with the government, their neighbors, whatever...but when it comes down to it...while they may speak out about it, or vote against it, they don't DO ANYTHING about it. Just as the guy on the boat didn't when it came down to it.

Fantastic scene.

I loved the roller coaster of Harvey Dent as well. He really had a great character arc in the movie. Fans of Batman knew what was in store for him...but even watch the movie you didn't think it would be possible until it was done.

Michael Cain was brilliant as Alfred again, and has some great lines, as well as really being the foundation under Batman in this movie.

Again, I can't say enough about the Joker either. Everything they did with him in this movie was gold. From the inital bank heist scene (having his own people have orders to kill each other). To the scene where he first walks into the room with the mobsters (I'm going to do a magic trick...and make this pencil disappear!!) to many of his twisted speeches, and his scenes in the Hospital. Really well done villan.

Christian Bale was as solid as his prior movie as well...but to be honest there was so much other power in this movie, he didn't stand out as much as in Batman Begins...and I was OK with that. Heck that went along with his arc of thinking it was time for him to step aside in the movie. It all just worked.

So just a great movie (not a great superhero movie) that really did live up to its predecessor. What did everyone else think????
I agree with you 100%. I LOVED this movie. I saw it on Friday and was bursting wanting to tell everyone about it but no one had seen it yet. I told one co-worker who is going to see it later to just "watch for the magic trick". The Joker was incredible. HL did a great job portraying him; showing both the insanity and intelligence that the Joker has. One of my favorite lines was.... (SPOILER).........at the end he was hanging upside down and Batman wanted to know "Why are you trying to kill me?" and the Joker laughs and tells him he doesn't want him dead because he is soo much fun! And then proceeds to tell Batman that he feels like they were destined to do this forever. Once again great movie, I recommend it for people who don't even like "superhero" movies.
Thanks for getting this thread started, Recoil. I don't plan on seeing this for a while, because I want to see it in my local IMAX theater, which just happens to be at Lincoln Square in Manhattan, which is booked solid for 3 weeks! But I feel it'll be worth it- this is the only comic book movie I'm excitied for since... well, I guess since the last Batman.

I like Batman.

I don't care about spoilers anyway.

I admit when I first heard Ledger was getting the part I typecasted him as just another Hollywood pretty boy. Nice to the consensus is that he did well. I've even seen negative reviews of the movie that still praised his performance.

Also, Maggie Gyllenhall > Katie Holmes in the role of Rachel Dawes.

And also in the role of The Mighty GKarsEye's Fantasy Girlfriend. She is a cutie.

How was Aaron Eckhart as Dent? I've liked him in a couple of movies I've seen w/ him (Thank You For Smoking, some pretentious sex/romance thing with Helena Bonham Carter) and wonder if he has the charm to be a break-out star. And I wonder how he'd be as Two-Face in the next Batman.
I'm also not a comic book guy, so I can't tell you how Aaron Eckhart portrayed Dent compared to the comic book version...but I thought he was VERY solid in this movie. To me, the Dark Knight was almost more about his character arc than anything else. I felt like he was at times the center of the movie, moreso than Bruce Wayne/Batman. I think he carried it well. So I think you will approve of his performance too.

I will see this movie again in IMAX. I've heard it was filmed in IMAX so it would be a great way to see it. I've got the same problem here though. IMAX theaters by me are booked for 3 weeks as well. We didn't want to wait, so we saw it this weekend, and will go back to IMAX when we can.

Ledger was a lot like DiCaprio. Hollywood pretty boy...until he got that role or two that made even his critics say "ya know, he was damn good in that!" For me, that role for DiCaprio was "The Departed"...although I started changing my opinion for him as far back as "Gangs of NY" and "The Avaitor"

This was Ledgers role that made me see him differently. Unfortuantely it is after his passing. I know he received a lot of critical praise for Brokeback Mountain...but I'm sorry, just not a movie I ever care to see, and not the type of role that would have swayed me into his camp. But everyone walking out of that movie --- even the hardcore Batman fans --- thought he was excellent.
Yea know something else about this movie that I like to see that made it great IMO? It is all of the other "B" or "That Guy" stars that appeared in it. This movie REALLY had a good number of stars in it, and I think its the sign of a solid movie when you see so many people wanting to be a part of it --- no matter how small.

* Eric Roberts as one of the new crime lords
* Anthony Michael Hall as the news reporter
* Nestor Carbonell as the mayor. (he is definitely a "that guy". I didn't know his name either, but he is "Eyelashes Man" from Lost)
* Ron Dean (who is a "that guy" who has played so many Chicago/NY Cops in MANY MANY shows -- the Fugitive, NYPD blue, etc)
* William Fichtner as the banker in the opening scene

I'm sure there are a few others I missed too...
Re: Tell you two good Web site

Wow, that's like those amusing junk emails I used to/still get. Anyhoo...

And I guess possible spoiler warnings here... better safe than sorry, methinks.

Other notable people I recall: Keith Szarabajka as a detective, and Tom "Tiny" Lister, Jr. as the convict who tosses the detonator out the window. I also liked having Cillian Murphy back in a brief cameo as Dr. Crane/Scarecrow, as I feel as if it creates the concept of a cinematic Gotham City where previous villains still run about committing crimes and such, unlike many comic movies where the villains end up dead by the end just to create closure.

On that note, I'm also saddened by the irony of this movie's villains, as the one that survives has lost the actor, while the one that presumably dies still has a living actor to pick the role back up. Then again, considering how well the new Batmans are doing, I'm capable of believing that they could recast the Joker and have it work. Also, this is all assuming Dent died at the end. Part of me feels like his story was told in full, despite my original belief that the majority of the usage of Two-Face would drive the third film's plot, and as such he can be left for dead. On the other hand, I can't say that we got definitive proof (or proof that couldn't be retconned for future convenience) that he was dead.
(spoilers) Yea nobody checked a pulse, did they. At least not on-screen. I had the same assumptions about his role in this/future movies before I saw the movie, but after seeing it, I do feel his arc/story is told, so I would like to think that he is gone. To have him pop back in sometime in the future would be pretty lame, and I don't see Chrisopher Nolan doing that. (end spoilers)

This is the sort of thing that worries me though. The Joker. Do you recast him, after such a great job by HL? I want to think the answer is: no. Furthermore, why would you want the joker back AGAIN in a third movie? It would seem a bit repetitive.

On the other hand, the one thing that worries me about the Batman franchise...is that many of its villains really are cartoon-ish bad guys. How do they translate to the what Christopher Nolan has been painting? The Penguin? The Riddler? I'm not sure I want to see these guys in future movies just because they are Batman villians.

That said, a large part of the story of both movies thus far has been the fairly "real world" element of organized crime, and they have always integrated Batman lore villians into that scenario.

Not wanting to divert this thread into discussions of possible sequels, but I felt it deserved mentioning.
Well given Ledger's performance, and yes, his death, I think most people would react poorly to a recast.

Although the idea of repeating villains seems lame, if there is one villain you could do that with it would be the Joker. In some of the later comic series, they created this dynamic between the Joker and Batman as two sides of the same coin, where they sort of define each other's existence, and thus struggle for the rest of their lives. Since this franchise uses the later comics as a major inspiration, it was certainly plausible they could've done something like that, thus bringing back the Joker.

I read somewhere that Nolan doesn't want to do Penguin and Catwoman. I could picture a not-too-cartoonish Riddler or Dr Freeze, though.

As for supporting cast, I remember laughing when I heard who was going to be in Begins: Gary Oldman, Morgan Freeman, Michael Caine, Liam Neeson... like they were yelling "We're a real, serious movie!"
In some of the later comic series, they created this dynamic between the Joker and Batman as two sides of the same coin, where they sort of define each other's existence, and thus struggle for the rest of their lives.

Its funny you say that. The last scene the Joker is in, in the movie, he says pretty much exactly that. Almost verbatim. Are you sure you haven't seen this already? ;)
I was discussing this with friends today, trying to figure out what kind of villains they could use in the next or future Batman films. Like you mentioned, the Penguin and Riddler are so cartoonish and over the top they would not work with the new darker more "serious" Batman.

The only one I could think of was Bane; a character from South Africa who has super strength and is very intelligent. In one story arc in the Batman comic he released many prisoners from Arkham to fight Batman and weaken him so he could continue his plans. He also discovered who Batman really was and attacked him at Wayne manor; ending the fight by breaking Batman's back over his knee forcing Batman to give up being Batman.

One thing I am torn about though, if they continue these movies, should they even try and bring Robin into the picture at all?
I would have thought that The Scarecrow is too ridiculous a creature to put in these movies, but it was ok in Begins because they came up with the idea of that mask/hood thing.

A friend told me that Christian Bale has said he would refuse to do a Batman if there was a Robin character.
I've read that Robin is a non-entity in this universe. My prediction is that there will be at least one more: Trilogy's are "IN".:LOL: that said, Catwoman HAS to be a part of the trilogy!:devil: Which means that the Penguin is out: too much like Tim Burton's 2nd Batman film ( which I really like:p). The Riddler is doable, though barely.

Considering this is DC comics, crossover villians/heros should be considered.

I havent seen DK yet.:eek: I have choice of Imax or reg theatrical. Question is : which do I see first?:devil:
If they gave the Riddler a dark background, he could fit into this rendition of Batman. Ledger's Joker was much more sadistic than other portrayals (though I admit I have not read the comics so I am not sure how he gets portrayed there). The Jim Carrey incarnation of the character just would not fly...or at least not how Carrey played him in the 90s. Some of Carrey's other films show that he could put a darker spin on the character but I very much doubt he would get cast as the Riddler a second time.

As for Robin, I do not see how they could work him into this current series of films...well at least not the third film. The third film seems like it will do more with Batman as the villain in the public's mind. Given that Batman knows he has such a dark time ahead of him, I do not see him dragging another into that life. Robin would also provide too much of a temptation to lighten the mood of the series and that would be bad.

I am a bit surprised that Two Face died though since it seemed like he was being set up as the villain for the next picture. I know there is some speculation that he did not really die, but it seems odd that Gordon or somebody would not check the body. If it suddenly vanished from the morgue or something, you would think that would get mentioned in the film. That or the body would have fallen in a body of water or something where it would not get recovered. Then they would be free to bring him back or not depending on what other plans they had for the third film. Ultimately though, brining back Two Face would destroy the image of Harvey Dent that Batman was willing to protect by allowing people to view him as a villain. If Dent is still running around, then Batman's sacrifice is for nothing.

I know that including the Joker was a must for any Batman franchise but it seems like there is a greater willingness to include some of the less prominant villains (Scarecrow and Ra's Al Goul), so I am thinking that the next film does not necessarily have to include one of the better known villains. At any rate, I do not see how the Penguin could work in this current set of films.

I would not be surprised if Talia Al Goul made an appearance at some point though.

Freeze could work if you selected someone like Hugo Weaving to play him...none of this Schwarzeneggar nonsense.
I remember the animated series in the 90s, which was pretty good overall, had a killer multi-episode story with the Al Gouls. I agree that including Talia in this movie franchise could work really well.
I remember the animated series in the 90s, which was pretty good overall, had a killer multi-episode story with the Al Gouls. I agree that including Talia in this movie franchise could work really well.
Yea I remember watching that and really liked it.
Sticking to that side of the comics would help a lot. Harley Quinn, a mad female Joker groupie could work as well. Keeping Robin out of it at all costs is the way forward.

I still hope that one day a film based upon the Dark Knight Returns is made, showing a grizzled old Batman up against his old foes.
it's a pity it is a superhero movie, as they do tend to get ignored by the academy, i feel this film deserves at least a best picture nomination. in my mind it really was that powerful.

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