The advantage of no more B5

[GKarsEye]

When I first heard about a Babylon 5 theatrical picture, I was skeptical. With the re-casting campaign (which I participiated in), I'm still skeptical. I really do believe there will be no more Babylon 5 projects ever again.

But, you know, that's really fine. Look on the bright side: except for Crusade, which is only half-a-season, and the Rangers movie, which was just one thing and now forgotten, B5 went out on top. 5 killer seasons. I'm grateful it even went 5 seasons.

Look at Star Trek, and X-Files, and Twilight Zone- successful TV sci-fi projects that just went on and on and sweet lord why didn't someone put them out of their misery ages ago? Voyager, Enterprise, Nemesis, agent T-1000 instead of Mulder, the New Twilight Zones (and subsequent movies)... ech. Batman Returns and Forever and For Always Sucks. Yeesh.

No no, I'll take B5's high percentage track record. Leave 'em wanting more. Thank god for the DVDs.

 

[KoshN]

"The advantage of no more B5" ? ....that studios and networks/stations can't f*ck with it anymore?

 

[Shaal Mayan]

The advantage of having no more B5 !!!!What the f**ck ?I for one want more Babylon 5 in any form.

 

[GKarsEye]

Yes, there definitely is that, too.

Imagine Rick Berman- Executive Producer for the Babylon 5 franchise!

 

[RMcD]

Assuming TMOS really is dead.. It really is still a dead cert that one of these days, given the burgeoning mania for remakes, spin-offs and sequels, the number of questions left open in the B5 arc, the sheer quality of the series, and the many hundreds of years worth of television hours that will need to be filled over future centuries, B5 will ride again in some form.. There is absolutely zero chance that the 5 seasons we have now will ulimately be it.

What I can't understand is why every attempt to revive the universe in the actually relatively short time since the series finished seems to have been doomed from the get go, from Crusade to the Jerry Doyle rumour to that ill-fated PC game. Is there some kind of B5 curse operating? Or are we being kept pristine for better things?

 

[Shaal Mayan]

Yes, there definitely is that, too.

Imagine Rick Berman- Executive Producer for the Babylon 5 franchise!

Now that's a mental image I don't need

 

[Shaal Mayan]

What I can't understand is why every attempt to revive the universe in the actually relatively short time since the series finished seems to have been doomed from the get go, from Crusade to the Jerry Doyle rumour to that ill-fated PC game. Is there some kind of B5 curse operating? Or are we being kept pristine for better things?

I am begining to think that the curse thing is right on the money .But then again it would seem the only thing that can have any chance of success is if it has STAR TREK in the title.

 

[GKarsEye]

I think that as fans we don't understand who little the rest of the world cares about it.

In terms of commercial success and attention, B5 is in the same realm as Andromeda.

 

[admiraldave]

I remember years ago, someone described B5 as "The undiscovered crown jewel of science fiction". Guess it still applies.

 

[Shaal Mayan]

OBVIOUSLY

 

[RMcD]

I think that as fans we don't understand who little the rest of the world cares about it.

In terms of commercial success and attention, B5 is in the same realm as Andromeda.

And yet Andromeda is still on the air (I think), Firefly seems to get its movie effortlessly despite being canned, Farscape gets its miniseries, Stargate gets endlessly renewed and gets a spin-off without ever becoming watchable, even Battlestar Galactica, which was just bad even for the 80s is still deemed worth remaking into two shiny new series..

Some of these shows are good, but not one is even half as good as Babylon 5, imho. None is cursed in the same way. JUST WHAT IS SO DIFFERENT ABOUT BABYLON 5????

The only crumb of comfort at the moment is that the trekkies are just now entering into this same soul-searing wilderness..

As for mainstream, I knew B5 had made it big when I heard it described as a 'banal sci-fi soap opera' on a BBC radio arts programme.. Of course that was back in the days when it was still on the air..

 

[GKarsEye]

Firefly was on a network, so it's considered "mainstream" enough for the idea to be turned into a movie.

The fact that Andromeda is still on the air leads me to propose this theory: Babylon 5 was too good to remain on the air.

Allow me to explain (as if you have a choice): nobody really gives two shits about Andromeda, right? Those who watch don't take it seriously and I can't imagine many people going out of their way to watch it. Consequently, the producers don't put much time and money into it and the paltry ratings are good enough.

This mentality is how Kevin Sorbo makes a living. On a much bigger scale, it is how reality TV is successful, despite everyone hating it.

TNT picked up Babylon 5 because, I would think at least in part, they recognised that it's actually pretty damn good. They wanted to make it their baby. Crusade failed because they tried to over-feed the baby until it died from too much bad "love."
(If TNT-Atlanta wouldn't respect Crusade, they might have left it alone, like Andromeda is probably left to its own devices)

This is why we get the occassional greatness of a Babylon 5 or an Amok Time or those really cool Twilight Zone eps or "there... are.. four... lights!" Geek-TV thrives on the fringe. When it becomes accepted by the mainstream, we get Jar Jar Binks.

I wonder if Babylon 5 lives in this weird zone where it's not popular enough to be mainstream (and thus benefit from mass-marketing and big budgets) but not ignored enough to let wander on a small network and be left alone, as it was when it first began.

 

[LondosHair]

The advantage of having no more B5 !!!!What the f**ck ?I for one want more Babylon 5 in any form.

And how much jerking-around will you take from Warner Bros. to get it? Frankly I'm sick of it.

Like I said a minute ago in the other thread, this doesn't include the B5 books, which have done well on their own, and they have to be approved by JMS first (or so I've heard).

 

[PillowRock]

(If TNT-Atlanta wouldn't respect Crusade, they might have left it alone, like Andromeda is probably left to its own devices)

The more recent revelations about what was going on behind the TNT-Atlanta curtain was not "too much love" so much as "purposeful infanticide". They were purposely being egregious so that JMS would eventually be provoked into refusing to cooperate and thereby give them an excuse to cancel the contract. Their study of B5 S5 numbers showed they were getting virtually no audiance retention in either direction between B5 and their other shows (although, given the rest of their schedule at the time, I can't imagine why they wouldn't have just expected that). So they decided to ditch it, but they still had that pre-existing contract for Crusade. TNT-LA liked the show and trusted the team, but Atlanta was working on a completely different agenda.

And the suits from Tribune or whoever it is that produces Andromeda have not just ignored it and let it be whatever it was going to be. When Andromeda first started it was OK (though only OK), and looked like it might have ptential to be kinda interesting in terms of long term arc. The suits, with the support of Sorbo, specifically fired that show-runner / head writer in order to push the show to a purer Herc-in-space, stand-alone episodes, no-thought-required direction. At the same time they pushed the show to re-design their female characters (costuming etc.) to goose the titillation factor up.

 

[KoshN]

Imagine Rick Berman- Executive Producer for the Babylon 5 franchise!

Gah!!! <shudder> Go wash your mouth out with soap!

 

[Vonbloodbath]

I wonder if Babylon 5 lives in this weird zone where it's not popular enough to be mainstream (and thus benefit from mass-marketing and big budgets) but not ignored enough to let wander on a small network and be left alone, as it was when it first began.

I think that's a damned fine point GKE. It's not big enough to get major kudos, and not small enough to get ignored. Plus it has storylines which require a little thought, and characters/situations which require you to suspend disbelief. (Centauri hair-pieces I'm looking at you! )

Whereas I can only presume that the people who watch Andromeda (and Charmed...) just switch on the goggle box and switch off all higher brain functions.

More power to 'em, just a shame they don't want totake the time and effort to get into something with a little oomph.

VB

 

[KoshN]

Firefly was on a network, so it's considered "mainstream" enough for the idea to be turned into a movie.

A crap network that cancelled it in short order.

The fact that Andromeda is still on the air leads me to propose this theory: Babylon 5 was too good to remain on the air.

Andromeda is cancelled. It's just finishing out its final episodes.

Allow me to explain (as if you have a choice): nobody really gives two shits about Andromeda, right?

Right.

Those who watch don't take it seriously and I can't imagine many people going out of their way to watch it. Consequently, the producers don't put much time and money into it and the paltry ratings are good enough.

This mentality is how Kevin Sorbo makes a living. On a much bigger scale, it is how reality TV is successful, despite everyone hating it.

It's the Flash Gordon/Buck Rogers "comic sci-fi" series of today.

TNT picked up Babylon 5 because, I would think at least in part, they recognised that it's actually pretty damn good.

TNT-LA realized this. I'm not sure TNT-Atlanta would recognize quality if it came up and bit them on the a**.

They wanted to make it their baby.

They wanted to make it more into their style of trashy series, knew JMS would not go for that, and used his resistance as an excuse to cancel it.

Crusade failed because they tried to over-feed the baby until it died from too much bad "love."

Crusade failed because TNT-Atlanta wanted to kill it. They wanted to kill it because they found out that their pre-B5 era audience couldn't handle sci-fi unless it was comic book style sci-fi and/or was trashy enough (i.e. had enough sex and violence) and required zero thought.

I listen to some of Crusade's dialogue (especially some of Gideon's lines) now and can see how it would have given TNT-Atlanta suits Excedrin headaches if they tried to follow it.

(If TNT-Atlanta wouldn't respect Crusade, they might have left it alone, like Andromeda is probably left to its own devices)

They would leave something alone if it looks like it fits with what their traditional (pre-B5 era) audience likes to watch. It has nothing to do with "respect."

This is why we get the occassional greatness of a Babylon 5 or an Amok Time or those really cool Twilight Zone eps or "there... are.. four... lights!" Geek-TV thrives on the fringe. When it becomes accepted by the mainstream, we get Jar Jar Binks.

Your conclusion is right, but how you got there is really, really iffy.

I wonder if Babylon 5 lives in this weird zone where it's not popular enough to be mainstream (and thus benefit from mass-marketing and big budgets) but not ignored enough to let wander on a small network and be left alone, as it was when it first began.

If only Crusade could have gone to Sci-Fi and been produced for B5's traditional $1 million/ep. without interference.

 

[The_One]

Guys! You're depressing me!

FAITH MANAGES

 

[grumbler]

The problem with B5 can be summed up in the same three letters that identify the strength of B5: JMS.

Look, this is the pasion of a single man, who made it work for all of us for 5 seasons, by doing the unthinlkable: aggreeing ahead of time when his series would end, no matter how popular it was. That has not been done before. Even limited series, like 24, have the posibnility of kore seasons just like the last ones.

This gave JMS the ability to bring us Sleeping in Light which is arguably the most moving hour of TV ever "broadcast" (and the quote marks are imprtant). It also marked him as someone who could take or leave an offer, and that is probably the case here.

I have been convinced this was the truth for a couple of weeks now, and posted as much on JMSnews. that is okay, though, both for the franchise and the fans. It leaves the ball, as I see it without any Hollywood knowledge, back in the hands of WB television as opposed to the braindead features division. WB television, not WB features, saw the sales of the DVDs. WB television, as opposed to WB features, can bring us B5 in plenty with little lead time.

bet of all, WB television has worked with JMSW and knows where he can and cannot be pushed 9and maybe even got a li8ttle lesson with the Crusade commentaries).

I do not think B5 is dead, even in the performance media. And the franchise will be freer without the movies (and the waiting for the movies to come out before revealing the "zinger" plot elements).

 

[KoshN]

It leaves the ball, as I see it without any Hollywood knowledge, back in the hands of WB television as opposed to the braindead features division. WB television, not WB features, saw the sales of the DVDs. WB television, as opposed to WB features, can bring us B5 in plenty with little lead time.

WB Television still needs a customer, a place to air it. The Sci-Fi Channel is pretty full-up at the moment with Stargate SG-1, Stargate Atlantis, and Battlestar Galactica.