The Aborted Reboot

[Republibot 3.0]

Forgive me if we've already discussed this, but I'm fuzzy-headed today.

A few years ago, JMS was talking about some 'big news' for B5 which predictably didn't happen. He's been close-lipped about exactly what he was talking about (Again predictably), but the phrase "Reboot" came up several times.

This would seem at odds with his insistence that no one every play G'Kar again out of respect to Andreas Katsulas. Also, quite frankly, despite a slow start and 66% crap final season, B5 really did do all the stuff it set out to do. There's not any real reason for rebooting it. That's more for shows like Galactica and Firefly, which never got where they were going, or Knight Rider and The Bionic Woman, which got their fair due, but were never really going anywhere in particular to begin with.

So what was he talking about?

My hunch is that he was talking about rebooting everything between "Objects at Rest" and "Sleeping in Light." B5 would stand as it ever has, carved in stone, no monkeying around. Crusade, Rangers, Lost Tales, however, would all be wiped from continuity, and he'd tell a completely new story in the years between 2263 and 2280.

Anyone got any opinions? Or more recent information?

Again: I apologize if I've brought this up before.

 

[Ragzus]

The galaxy could do without the rangers movie.
The ship looked fine the cast were dealable for a tv movie, then some chick starts doing kung fu to fire the ships weapons.

That's it kids, we are turning this car right around and we are going to watch babylon 5 from the start again!


I love the idea of breathing new life into a series i loved and not changing its timelines (fuck you trek.)
But so many of the great actors have passed beyond the rim it would be hard to fill their shoes even with new characters, Lets face it in their days they were so brilliant even today they can stand with some of the best actors, or above them (shake fist at movie industry)
Pat and Claudia are looking very good for their ages (no offense!) and if they *wanted to* play their roles again but wanting to is the problem and everyone else has aged (its part of life) and might have to wear a face mask to play their characters


I'd personally like to see how they could touch up some of the cgi they could pad out in the begining with more cgi and other characters from their points of view with audio from the first film, and see how received it is.

 

[KoshN]

If they wanted to reboot anything, they should reboot Crusade. HOWEVER, I wish they'd follow the existing Crusade storyline, just with new actors where the previous ones were now too old to play the parts or were unwilling to reprise their roles (e.g. Gary Cole, or Daniel Dae Kim because he's in H50v2 and big time now.). HOPEFULLY, they'd be able to get Walter Koenig for "Value Judgements." In other words, a do-over with at least some new people, from the beginning, and then new stuff building upon the storyline of the existing Crusade episodes and unfilmed scripts.


I'd LOVE to see "To the Ends of the Earth" and "End of the Line" filmed, and to see Gary Cole back as Capt. Gideon. Hey, I thought he did a GREAT job, but I understand he wasn't liked on tbe set, and that he didn't want to be there.

 

[Republibot 3.0]

(fuck you trek.)

Amen.

But so many of the great actors have passed beyond the rim it would be hard to fill their shoes even with new characters, Lets face it in their days they were so brilliant even today they can stand with some of the best actors, or above them (shake fist at movie industry)
Pat and Claudia are looking very good for their ages (no offense!) and if they *wanted to* play their roles again but wanting to is the problem and everyone else has aged (its part of life) and might have to wear a face mask to play their characters

I think you could just tell a story that didn't involve them. I mean, not counting the Bones cameo, we were how many seasons into TNG before they showed us a TOS cast member? Or limit yourselves to the ones you could pull off with heavy prosthetics, like Lannier and Londo and Vir. Na'Toth, perhaps. <G>

 

[Republibot 3.0]

If they wanted to reboot anything, they should reboot Crusade. HOWEVER, I wish they'd follow the existing Crusade storyline, just with new actors where the previous ones were now too old to play the parts or were unwilling to reprise their roles

That'd be optimal. And for all I know, that's what they were talking about.

HOPEFULLY, they'd be able to get Walter Koenig for "Value Judgements." In other words, a do-over with at least some new people, from the beginning, and then new stuff building upon the storyline of the existing Crusade episodes and unfilmed scripts.
I'd LOVE to see "To the Ends of the Earth" and "End of the Line" filmed, and to see Gary Cole back as Capt. Gideon. Hey, I thought he did a GREAT job, but I understand he wasn't liked on tbe set, and that he didn't want to be there.

So you've got a show you like - let's say M*A*S*H* - and it ends and spawns a sequel ("After M*A*S*H*"). The sequel gets killed off way too early. You're annoyed at this. There were story arcs in play, and while it may not have been as all-that as the parent series, dammit, you've read some of the unproduced scripts, and the one about the return of Colonel Henry Blake honestly looked pretty good! So time passes, and you ruminate on the show, and what they might have done had they gotten the full season and a bit more money, and maybe a better slot, and at some point in there you just stop questioning whether "After M*A*S*H" (Or "Galactica: 1980," or "Team Knight Rider" or whatever) was really the best way to do a spinoff. You get so used to the idea that you start to think "That's the only way it CAN be done" as opposed to "Maybe they should've gone with plan 'B'" or whatever. ANd then somehow you get a shot at rebooting EVERYTHING that happens after "Goodbye, Farewell, Amen" (The final episode of M*A*S*H) and rather than doing something completely new that could go in amazing new directions and tell compelling new stories, you end up remaking a half-remembered footnote of a series that honestly wasn't making the best possible use of its cachet.

I would have liked to have seen Crusade succeed. I honestly would have. It never grabbed me the way B5 did because, honestly, ship-based shows? Been there, done that about 11 million times too many. Still: I have faith in JMS, and if anyone's going to do it right, it's him. And I would have liked to have seen a reboot if possible ten years ago, or maybe even five. But I think the time for that is past.

I think if B5 is to have any kind of future, you need a RTD Dr. Who-level rethink that just ditches all the interstitial crap between the penultimate and ultimate eps of B5 and tells us something new and exciting and different. And if that involves the Drakh and the plague and the mysterious ghosts on the Liandra, well, spiffy! If not, eh, I didn't CARE much about those things anyway. ANd if we see the Telepath War, again, that's ginchy, but honestly the story never struck me as all that interesting.

Which is my laborious way of saying "I want more B5, dammit, but I'm not locked into the increasingly awful attempts we've seen since 1998"

 

[KoshN]

I would have liked to have seen Crusade succeed. I honestly would have. It never grabbed me the way B5 did because, honestly, ship-based shows? Been there, done that about 11 million times too many. Still: I have faith in JMS, and if anyone's going to do it right, it's him. And I would have liked to have seen a reboot if possible ten years ago, or maybe even five. But I think the time for that is past.

The thing is, I LIKED Crusade, and haven't really liked anything in the B5 universe since Crusade. It's not too late for a Crusade reboot; it's probably too late for a Crusade restart or a reshoot with 100% of the original actors even if all of the actors were available and willing.

 

[Ragzus]

I don't think running another series right off is a great idea, i still think a movie would be the better way to go the start of the telepath war in movie form?
I don't think the telepath war would require actors that aren't with us anymore it could bring in new characters for a crusade or other kind of reboot.

Safer way to gauge interest in the series and with the bad remakes filling theaters if it was a big hit the series would get lots of interest even if it started slow.

I just watched the two part time travel episodes with stealing babylon 5 it was a missed chance to have ivanova to say "the commander is dead" instead of "the captain is dead"

Then the previous time line before valen.. would've been the first story of babylon 5- babylon -prime. ^_^
And Sinclars son from b-prime could've taken b4 into the past and become valen for the first time line, onward it'd be sinclar who'd jump into the loop.

(vague thoughts ho!)

 

[Springer]

I really didn't like the idea of the reboot. Like G'Kar once said about Delenn's rebirth ceremony, "I've been born once before and quite sufficiently I think." The original B5 is quite sufficient, I think I would rather see JMS put his talent towards doing new things.

If he had gone ahead with the reboot, he said the character of G'Kar would have become the equivalent of G'Quan, a fabled ancient religious icon or hero.

JMS once said that after the five years were up, the story would be ended and there'd be no more. Of course we got the movies and Crusade and not everything in the story was neatly wrapped up, but I've always preferred the notion of 'five years and that's it'. The story has ended, I love it to bits, but let's see some new things instead.

 

[KoshN]

If they wanted to reboot anything, they should reboot Crusade. HOWEVER, I wish they'd follow the existing Crusade storyline, just with new actors where the previous ones were now too old to play the parts or were unwilling to reprise their roles

That'd be optimal. And for all I know, that's what they were talking about.

I think that JMS was talking about a real reboot.....

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionar...eboot+(fiction)
Reboot (fiction)

In serial fiction, to reboot means to discard all continuity in an established series in order to recreate a character, timeline, and/or backstory from the beginning.

.....and of of Babylon 5, not Crusade. To me that would be a mistake. He wanted to fix the problems in Babylon 5 that he wasn't able to fix. Sure I wish I could have Babylon 5 Season 5 without the cheesy melodrama of Byron and his telepath cult and without the Claudia Christian debacle and therefore without the need for Tracy Scoggins, but that can't happen. Most of the actors are too old for a believable reshoot. Also, JMS would likely go ahead with his Ivanova, Byron and the telepath cult. Ick!

If JMS was going to do a reboot of Crusade, he'd likely do one as he'd originally planned, without The Drakh Plague, and instead just a continuation with the Rangers, with Marcus alive, and sort of a morph with Legend of the Rangers. The thing is, I LIKED what they did with the Drakh Plague in Crusade, "Legions of Fire" and "The Passing of the Technomages" trilogies. JMS took the plague that he was saddled with and made some good storytelling out of it. I's hate to abandon that good story just because some SOB pinheads at TNT-Atlanta had their way and screwed us all.

ps. I have no qualms with Marcus Cole being alive, Jason Carter coming back to reprise his role (if possible) and Ivanova (Claudia) coming back to reprise her role (if possible), but the idea of Byron Atkin Downes, oops Robin Atkin Downes and Byron and the telepath cult coming back makes me physically ill.

Lastly, I REALLY wish we could get the imagery of the unfilmed Crusade scripts and the three novel trilogies on film in BIG BUDGET MOVIE TRILOGIES like Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit films. The problem is, that would REQUIRE a recasting of G'Kar and any other actors who have passed beyond the rim.

 

[Republibot 3.0]

I really didn't like the idea of the reboot.

Having just listened to the podcast Jan pointed me at regarding the reboot, I'm intrigued, I'd have watched it, but I agree: I don't like the idea. Honestly I like my idea better, which is not something I say very often W/R/T JMS. Of course I only know the barebones, not enough to really make a judgement from.

If he had gone ahead with the reboot, he said the character of G'Kar would have become the equivalent of G'Quan, a fabled ancient religious icon or hero.

Ok, that's nice.

JMS once said that after the five years were up, the story would be ended and there'd be no more. Of course we got the movies and Crusade and not everything in the story was neatly wrapped up, but I've always preferred the notion of 'five years and that's it'. The story has ended, I love it to bits, but let's see some new things instead.

...except that was always a fudge, wasn't it? He deliberately left a major aspect of the story unresolved, as per the synopsis of the series he sent the WB suits in season 1. There was always a very strong thread to do a spinoff or continuation ("Babylon Prime") and he even talked about it in SFU while the show was still in its first season.

 

[Republibot 3.0]

I think that JMS was talking about a real reboot.....

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionar...eboot+(fiction)
Reboot (fiction)

In serial fiction, to reboot means to discard all continuity in an established series in order to recreate a character, timeline, and/or backstory from the beginning.

Yes, thanks, I know what the definition of a 'reboot' is. I also know the difference between a 'Pilot" and a "First Episode" and a "Backdoor Pilot." People get confused about that, though, and frequently use the wrong terms, and since I'm hearing about all this third-hand, presumably with some interpolation involved, I have no way of knowing if it's a Reboot, a Remake, a Soft-Reboot, a Spinoff, a Re-Imagining, or what. All of those get frequently confused.

But thanks to Jan's link to the podcast here http://www.geekplanetonline.com/hos...The+Babble+On+Project)&utm_content=FeedBurner I now know it was an actual real reboot.

 

[Republibot 3.0]

If anyone's interested, I summed up the whole 'reboot' idea (insofar as I know anything about it) and posted it on my site here
http://kevin-long.com/what.asp?who=kevin&id=204
I also gave credit to B5tv.com

 

[Lyta's Shadow]

While I see no need for a reboot, I would be quite happy for a new story to be told in the B5 universe. There are after all 20 odd years of B5 until it's decommissioning in SIL. Even after that, who's to say what the major races got up to.

I was thinking the other day about this and was somewhat startled by a realisation. I grew up on ST:TNG (I was 6 when it started). Back then the original series seemed ancient and the 60s were to me long distant. Well TNG started 21 years after TOS, which is now the same amount of time since The Gathering aired. It feels like yesterday to me since B5 debuted, where has the time gone... No wonder TOS fans were sceptical about TNG starting; that's how I feel now about B5 being tampered with.

 

[Psi Cop]

How about 3-4 short 10 episode series to fill in the gaps in the story line that the movies so horribly failed to do? New characters could be introduced with cameos from the original cast (those that are still alive) without re-booting/decannonizing(!). One series could be on the Telepath War; another on Centauri Prime-Narn situation after Narn liberation/Drahk occuptation; maybe a prequel during the old Shadow War (Valen's war); and a sequel set some time in the future (expanding on one of the segments of Deconstruction of Falling Stars?). JMHO.

 

[Springer]

While I see no need for a reboot, I would be quite happy for a new story to be told in the B5 universe. There are after all 20 odd years of B5 until it's decommissioning in SIL. Even after that, who's to say what the major races got up to.

I was thinking the other day about this and was somewhat startled by a realisation. I grew up on ST:TNG (I was 6 when it started). Back then the original series seemed ancient and the 60s were to me long distant. Well TNG started 21 years after TOS, which is now the same amount of time since The Gathering aired. It feels like yesterday to me since B5 debuted, where has the time gone... No wonder TOS fans were sceptical about TNG starting; that's how I feel now about B5 being tampered with.

This is how I feel too and I was thinking the exact same thing about the period of time between Star Trek and TNG just the other day. I'd definitely get behind a B5: The Next Generation type approach, set 100 years later as the beginning of a new and unique story line rather than rehashing the things B5 did. Or set it even further into the future, with the Rangers rebuilding Earth after the Great Burn, while dealing with goings-on in space at the same time.

 

[Republibot 3.0]

While I see no need for a reboot, I would be quite happy for a new story to be told in the B5 universe. There are after all 20 odd years of B5 until it's decommissioning in SIL. Even after that, who's to say what the major races got up to.

I was thinking the other day about this and was somewhat startled by a realisation. I grew up on ST:TNG (I was 6 when it started). Back then the original series seemed ancient and the 60s were to me long distant. Well TNG started 21 years after TOS, which is now the same amount of time since The Gathering aired. It feels like yesterday to me since B5 debuted, where has the time gone... No wonder TOS fans were sceptical about TNG starting; that's how I feel now about B5 being tampered with.

This is how I feel too and I was thinking the exact same thing about the period of time between Star Trek and TNG just the other day. I'd definitely get behind a B5: The Next Generation type approach, set 100 years later as the beginning of a new and unique story line rather than rehashing the things B5 did. Or set it even further into the future, with the Rangers rebuilding Earth after the Great Burn, while dealing with goings-on in space at the same time.

Having thought about it for a couple months now, I'm torn. On the one hand, there's no real NEED for a reboot, and there's many neat moments that would be lost if it was rebooted. On the other hand, as JMS has said, there's a lot of stuff that could have been done better, or ideas he wasn't able to work in, or whatever. On the gripping hand, however, I can't shake the idea that I would gladly forego any new B5 stuff if JMS would come up with something new of equal quality, y'no?

I mean, come on, Joe! You're not Roddenberry! You've got more than one trick in you! We believe in you!

 

[Springer]

On the gripping hand, however, I can't shake the idea that I would gladly forego any new B5 stuff if JMS would come up with something new of equal quality, y'no?

I mean, come on, Joe! You're not Roddenberry! You've got more than one trick in you! We believe in you!

Well, we have got Sense8 coming this year, but it would be nice to get a new space-based series from JMS one day too.

 

[Jan]

Having thought about it for a couple months now, I'm torn. On the one hand, there's no real NEED for a reboot, ...

Can you explain this? The whole 'need' thing keeps coming up these days (not just here) and I don't really get it. When is there ever a 'need' for anything to be remade/rebooted/re-imagined? Romeo and Juliet was just fine without having been re-imagined as West Side Story. Many radio shows didn't 'need' to make the change to television.

... and there's many neat moments that would be lost if it was rebooted.

Lost how? Everything will still be right there on the DVDs of the show already made. And there might be new and equally wonderful moments in a reboot.

I mean, come on, Joe! You're not Roddenberry! You've got more than one trick in you! We believe in you!

I know you're only referring to (space based?) TV but really, JMS has already long ago proven he's not a one-trick-pony by virtue of his work in comics and movies as well as TV with Jeremiah. If you haven't checked those out, you're depriving yourself.

Jan

 

[Psi Cop]

Having thought about it for a couple months now, I'm torn. On the one hand, there's no real NEED for a reboot, ...

Can you explain this? The whole 'need' thing keeps coming up these days (not just here) and I don't really get it. When is there ever a 'need' for anything to be remade/rebooted/re-imagined? Romeo and Juliet was just fine without having been re-imagined as West Side Story. Many radio shows didn't 'need' to make the change to television.

... and there's many neat moments that would be lost if it was rebooted.

Lost how? Everything will still be right there on the DVDs of the show already made. And there might be new and equally wonderful moments in a reboot.

I mean, come on, Joe! You're not Roddenberry! You've got more than one trick in you! We believe in you!

I know you're only referring to (space based?) TV but really, JMS has already long ago proven he's not a one-trick-pony by virtue of his work in comics and movies as well as TV with Jeremiah. If you haven't checked those out, you're depriving yourself.

Jan

I would see a re-boot as a whole new series separate from the original that could be re-viewed as a stand alone. There were many "what-ifs" that I asked myself during the original show that would be good to see on-screen (not to mention with modern cgi). We also have to face the fact that the original actors are aging and passing away so any type of new series would have to involve different characters within the original B5 universe or different actors playing original characters in a re-boot. Star Trek did both - why not B5?

 

[Republibot 3.0]

On the gripping hand, however, I can't shake the idea that I would gladly forego any new B5 stuff if JMS would come up with something new of equal quality, y'no?

I mean, come on, Joe! You're not Roddenberry! You've got more than one trick in you! We believe in you!

Well, we have got Sense8 coming this year, but it would be nice to get a new space-based series from JMS one day too.

Yeah, Well, here's hopin'!