Talia Winters

[Dagon]

Hi everyone, newbie here. Not long gotten into the universe of B5, but am enjoying it very much. I've become particularly interested in the character of Talia Winters. I know that she's exposed as "Control" in Divided Loyalties and is shipped back to Earth, and that Bester later says that she's dead. However, this statement has been called into question. Some questions though: Control also figures in Spider in the Web, where "he" indicates Talia as a danger to the operation; Thirteen then recommends that she be killed. If Talia was Control, wouldn't it have been simpler to just force Talia to kill herself?

Then there's the crystal recording that Kosh made of Talia's true personality. What became of that?

And lastly, there's the matter of Jason Ironheart's gift to Talia. Couldn't she have used it to eliminate Control? Or failing that, couldn't the transformed Jason himself have rescued Talia? Being practically omnipotent, couldn't he have known about what happened to her?

 

[Sindatur]

Hi everyone, newbie here. Not long gotten into the universe of B5, but am enjoying it very much. I've become particularly interested in the character of Talia Winters. I know that she's exposed as "Control" in Divided Loyalties and is shipped back to Earth, and that Bester later says that she's dead. However, this statement has been called into question. Some questions though: Control also figures in Spider in the Web, where "he" indicates Talia as a danger to the operation; Thirteen then recommends that she be killed. If Talia was Control, wouldn't it have been simpler to just force Talia to kill herself?

Then there's the crystal recording that Kosh made of Talia's true personality. What became of that?

And lastly, there's the matter of Jason Ironheart's gift to Talia. Couldn't she have used it to eliminate Control? Or failing that, couldn't the transformed Jason himself have rescued Talia? Being practically omnipotent, couldn't he have known about what happened to her?

The recording of Talia's true personality, was meant to restore her after Divided Loyalties (Or however the reveal of COntrol was going to play out if she had stayed), had she not left the show

Regarding using Ironheart's gift to save/cure herself, Talia hadn't grown enough, the growth required for that, wouldn't come alter, had she stayed on the show.

Welcome to the site, and to the show

 

[KoshN]

Hi everyone, newbie here. Not long gotten into the universe of B5, but am enjoying it very much. I've become particularly interested in the character of Talia Winters. I know that she's exposed as "Control" in Divided Loyalties and is shipped back to Earth, and that Bester later says that she's dead. However, this statement has been called into question. Some questions though: Control also figures in Spider in the Web, where "he" indicates Talia as a danger to the operation; Thirteen then recommends that she be killed. If Talia was Control, wouldn't it have been simpler to just force Talia to kill herself?

Then there's the crystal recording that Kosh made of Talia's true personality. What became of that?

And lastly, there's the matter of Jason Ironheart's gift to Talia. Couldn't she have used it to eliminate Control? Or failing that, couldn't the transformed Jason himself have rescued Talia? Being practically omnipotent, couldn't he have known about what happened to her?

The recording of Talia's true personality, was meant to restore her after Divided Loyalties (Or however the reveal of COntrol was going to play out if she had stayed), had she not left the show

Regarding using Ironheart's gift to save/cure herself, Talia hadn't grown enough, the growth required for that, wouldn't come alter, had she stayed on the show.

Welcome to the site, and to the show

IIRC, Bester let it slip that she'd been dissected and that her brain was in a jar somewhere.

 

[Dagon]

He says this to Garibaldi. It's been suggested that Bester said this merely to taunt Garibaldi, seeing as he had feelings for Talia.

I'd like to think Talia managed to survive somehow, instead of just being sliced up by Psi-Corp. The thought of her life ending like that is simply too awful and depressing, IMO.

 

[Dagon]

^Besides which, I reckon Ironheart (or rather, the cosmic being that had once been him) would have been pretty damn upset had the Psi-Corps dissected Talia. I doubt he'd have let it slide.

 

[Sindatur]

^Besides which, I reckon Ironheart (or rather, the cosmic being that had once been him) would have been pretty damn upset had the Psi-Corps dissected Talia. I doubt he'd have let it slide.

You never know, that whole "Ascending to the next level" thing changes people, he may no longer find something like that worth worrying about (IE: Maybe death gets you to that Ascended place right away)

 

[Dagon]

I don't know. His feelings for Talia were still strong even after he ascended.

Actually, if the Psi-Corps really do have Talia's brain, does this mean they also now have the advanced powers given her by Ironheart? That's not a comforting thought....

 

[KoshN]

I don't know. His feelings for Talia were still strong even after he ascended.

Actually, if the Psi-Corps really do have Talia's brain, does this mean they also now have the advanced powers given her by Ironheart? That's not a comforting thought....

....but them he LEFT, saying he'd see them in a million years. I get the feeling he's no longer in the neighborhood.

 

[vacantlook]

My personal fantasy is that Ironheart perceived the Control personality and along with giving her telekinetic power made it such that Talia's personality wouldn't be destroyed by triggering Control, instead allowing Talia to absorb all the knowledge of Control but keeping her own identity and will, and Talia then went on faking being subsumed by Control in order to get into the secret side of the PsiCorps, gather information to use against them, and eventually work to bring the Corps down.

 

[Dagon]

Doesn't Bester have her brain in a jar in a later story though?

 

[Sindatur]

Doesn't Bester have her brain in a jar in a later story though?

Yea, I believe in a Comic or a short story, there is a brain in a jar, that we assume backs up the "Disected" claim of Bester's. I don't think we are actually told for certain the brain is indeed hers, though.

 

[vacantlook]

I've never read any of the comics, what with their being as difficult to acquire as they are, so I have trouble seeing them as canon.

 

[Sindatur]

I've never read any of the comics, what with their being as difficult to acquire as they are, so I have trouble seeing them as canon.

I've never read them either, but, there are pretty thorough synopses on The Lurker's Guide (At least they appear to be pretty thorough, considering how much is on Lurker's Guide and how much can fit into a Comic Book)

 

[JoeD80]

I've never read any of the comics, what with their being as difficult to acquire as they are, so I have trouble seeing them as canon.

Well certainly Joe said #1 and #5 - #8 were canon at the time, since he wrote the first issue himself and did the story outline for the arc starting with issue #5; particularly where it relates to how Sinclair and Garibaldi first met. Check the dialogue from "Infection" when Garibaldi is talking to the reporter, and then watch "Messages from Earth" in the meeting where Garibaldi pulls out the Psi Corps pin and you get the basic idea - Sinclair and Garibaldi witnessed the same thing Kirkish did when they crashed in the Martian desert. Definitley worth it to read if you can track it down.

Doesn't Bester have her brain in a jar in a later story though?

Yea, I believe in a Comic or a short story, there is a brain in a jar, that we assume backs up the "Disected" claim of Bester's. I don't think we are actually told for certain the brain is indeed hers, though.

The only Talia reference from the comic that I can recall is in issue #8 when we see her there at the secret Psi Corps base, but that was in the flashback portion - this is when her alternate personality is being programmed in the first place.

 

[Dagon]

And just because the Psi-Corps has Talia's brain, doesn't mean they have her, if you get what I mean. Ironheart's gift to her could have enabled her true personality to survive, and exist independant of her physical body, leaving said body to be inhabited only by Control.

 

[Mike G]

We know from the episode "The Corp is Mother, the Corp is Father" that different personalities can have different levels of telepathic strength. The "Control" version of Talia may have had no gifts from Ironheart.

 

[Dagon]

I liked Talia, so the thought of her dying like that distresses me a great deal.