"Some must be sacrificed if all are to be saved"

[GKarsEye]

\"Some must be sacrificed if all are to be saved\"

The other day, I watched the episode in which G'Kar joins the "army of light." Delenn tells him that she knew about the coming of the Shadows yet kept the secret hidden, despite their assistance in destroying his homeworld.

That scene just drained the shit out of me... again. Hits me every time. So powerful. Telling her he would have killed her, and that she understands. Her realisation that he has grown spiritually. His application of his "revelation" to the situation. His inability to forgive, and her understanding of that fact.

This thread has not point, other than to share how powerful that is.

 

[Markas]

Re: \"Some must be sacrificed if all are to be save

It is almost like the absolute pivot point of his life. His change of being is remarkable.

 

[vacantlook]

Re: \"Some must be sacrificed if all are to be save

"There is the notion that for one to achieve the transformational moment, it has to come through great pain." -- jms on G'Kar in "Dust To Dust" quoted in Point Of No Return episode guide by Jane Killick.

 

[RW7427]

Re: \"Some must be sacrificed if all are to be save

On a related note, something interesting if you think about it....

Back in season 1, Kosh told Sinclair "They're a dying people. We should let them pass". Now how he didn't make clear if he meant the Narns or the Centauri, but if you deduce he meant it was the Narns, then it could be a personal thing for G'Kar. He was a dying person, in the sense that his old self that hated the Centauri and wanted to see them all wiped from the face of the galaxy had died and a new self was born. Funny how Kosh was involved in that by appearing in his dust-induced dream in Dust to Dust, now isn't it?

 

[B5_Obsessed]

Re: \"Some must be sacrificed if all are to be save

Also a great exit line when Delenn hopes he will be able to forgive her:

"Perhaps. But not today."

 

[GKarsEye]

Re: \"Some must be sacrificed if all are to be save

"Who [are a dying race], the Narns or the Centaui?"
"Yes"

I always took that to mean both, and that "dying race," in a bigger context, means that they will not achieve enlightenment or evolution or whatever it is that gets them to the stage the Vorlon are at, and the human and Minbari are destined to achieve.

And yes, the last line in that scene was the perfect (and believable!) ending.

What hits about the scene is just the presence of those two characters. Delenn after season 2 and G'Kar after Dust to Dust are just the two "heaviest" characters on TV ever- there is so much in them, so much import to what they say and do, like one would imagine a living legend to behave. And then putting them alone into a room together is just a lot. It makes it more special that this is, I think, the only time it happens.

(The only other time they have a scene alone together I could think of is in the Gathering, where she goes all Galadriel on his ass with the ring. Obviously not the same thing...)

 

[KoshFan]

Re: \"Some must be sacrificed if all are to be save

G'Kar's conversion in Dust to Dust is one of my favorite moments of the whole series. I really, really love G'Kar, and of course a glance at my handle tells you a bit more about me, so having two of my top four favorite characters interacting is great. (The other two favorites are probably Sheridan and Londo.)

 

[rangerPHIL]

Re: \"Some must be sacrificed if all are to be save

'all this time where have you been?'

'I have always been here!'

The image of the angel was a very powerful moment,And the instant of G'kars conversion from Anger to Understanding for me was the highlight of season 3.

Kosh moves in mysterious ways.....

 

[QMCO5]

Re: \"Some must be sacrificed if all are to be saved\"

I can only wonder though if G'Kar would have been so magnanimous if he had known he was manipulated by Kosh.

QMCO5

 

[Jan]

Re: \"Some must be sacrificed if all are to be saved\"

I can only wonder though if G'Kar would have been so magnanimous if he had known he was manipulated by Kosh.

I've always wondered exactly the same thing.

Jan

 

[KoshFan]

Re: \"Some must be sacrificed if all are to be saved\"

Not at that moment, no, but if he found out later on, once he'd matured even more, I don't think he would mind. He'd say something along the lines of, "I needed to hear the message; the messanger was largely irrelevant."

But at that point, having it be G'Lan speaking to him very much underscored the point and made it stick with him.

 

[A_M_Swallow]

Re: \"Some must be sacrificed if all are to be saved\"

I can only wonder though if G'Kar would have been so magnanimous if he had known he was manipulated by Kosh.

QMCO5

Sometimes you have to obey orders.

 

[Galahad]

Re: \"Some must be sacrificed if all are to be saved\"

There's a bit in Crusade, which I used to use as my signature (I've had to crop the length). Where Matheson is put ina similar situation. He uses a Sunday School lesson about the crucifixion to justify not intervening in the death of an alien. Sometimes the act of sacrifice in itself has ramifications.

 

[hypatia]

Re: \"Some must be sacrificed if all are to be saved\"

I can only wonder though if G'Kar would have been so magnanimous if he had known he was manipulated by Kosh.

QMCO5

Sometimes you have to obey orders.

What an interesting comment, considering how the damned Vorlon/Shadow mess was rectified in the end.

Sometimes you just have to say "up yours" to orders, too.

 

[rangerPHIL]

Re: \"Some must be sacrificed if all are to be saved\"

Not at that moment, no, but if he found out later on, once he'd matured even more, I don't think he would mind. He'd say something along the lines of, "I needed to hear the message; the messanger was largely irrelevant."

But at that point, having it be G'Lan speaking to him very much underscored the point and made it stick with him.

whos to say Kosh didn't influence G'lan as well.

 

[KoshFan]

Re: \"Some must be sacrificed if all are to be saved\"

It's almost certain Kosh did influence G'Quan -- or at least a Vorlon did as G'Lan, G'Quan's "being of light" sidekick. (Valen had Valeria, G'Quan had G'Lan.)

But the truth of the inspiration probably carried over regardless of the medium. And remember, this is Kosh speaking -- always a little deviant from the Vorlon norm. When he tells G'Kar "some must be sacrificed" he might almost be speaking of himself as well -- and he may well know it.

 

[rangerPHIL]

Re: \"Some must be sacrificed if all are to be saved\"

true - maybe koshs manipulations were all leading up to the fact that he knew he was at some point in the near future going to die, and he was preparing those he thought would be in a position to make a difference for the time when he was indeed dead .

They would be able to make the correct decisions without his guidance.