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Short and Sweet, the latest tidbit found...

lazlor

Beyond the rim
Found this, this morning on darkhorizons.com in the tidbits section...

"Babylon 5: The 'big thing' JMS was hinting at the other week may in fact be a movie - a UK source indicates that Winchester Films is rumoured to be in talks with the show's creator about doing a movie which would be shot late next year."

:D

the question is.... is this a feature, or a telemovie?

laz
 
The wording of that 'article' strongly indicates a feature film. I've said before that of all possible B5 projects, a feature film made the most sense to me. If it was a TV movie or mini series, the first rumors we´d hear would likely be about the channel that was going to air it.
 
Possible, but nothing in that snippet says that they're in talks about a B5 movie. It isn't like that's the only thing JMS can or does write. ;)

From what I can find out on the 'web, Winchester Films is a UK-based studio that does both television (including a lot of childrens' programming, though they seem to be cutting back in that area) and feature films. (One of the current projects that they are either doing themselves or partnering is is Red Dwarf: The Movie.) They have worked with U.S. studios, including MGM, mostly handling overseas distribution.

It is certainly possible that a B5-based feature film could be shot in the U.K., as were Star Wars, Alien and Cleopatra. (OK, that last one isn't such a good omen.) In that case a U.K. company would necessarily be involved. But I'm surprised that the words "Warner Bros." don't appear in this piece. JMS can't do a B5 film with another studio - he doesn't own the property. Only Warner Bros. can make the film and only they can involve an outside entity like Winchester Films in the project.

(BTW, if this does refer to a B5 project, then it has to be a feature film. It would make no sense for WB to go to the U.K. to shoot a TV movie. That would be more expensive than shooting in Burbank and much more expensive than shooting in Canada. U.S. productions go to the U.K. for easy access to certain studio facilities like the legendary Bond stages, for actors who haven't "burned out" with the American audience and for convenient access to U.K. and European shooting locations. None of these would be a factor in a TV movie, which wouldn't need specialized production facilities, a large case or exotic exterior locations.)

But it is at least equally possible that JMS has sold Winchester an original screenplay or that he's been brought in as a writer on one of their projects. Don't forget, B5 was very popular on TV when people could find it, did very well on VHS and has been selling a lot of DVDs. If DVD sales in the U.S. may have gotten Warner Bros. interested in doing something new with B5, why shouldn't they have gotten Winchester interested in having JMS do a non-B5 SF project for them?

Regards,

Joe
 
If it was a TV movie or mini series, the first rumors we´d hear would likely be about the channel that was going to air it.

Well, that is about the last piece of information coming out about the Farscape mini-series which reportedly started shooting today/yesterday (depending on how you think of 12/15 in Australia).
 
If it was a TV movie or mini series, the first rumors we´d hear would likely be about the channel that was going to air it.

Well, that is about the last piece of information coming out about the Farscape mini-series which reportedly started shooting today/yesterday (depending on how you think of 12/15 in Australia).

That's a little different. Farscape got a bad deal from Sci-Fi. I wouldn't be too surprised to learn that the Jim Henson company is shouldering a big chunk of the expense of making a Farscape mini series in order to be able to sell a 'finished' product into syndication once Sci-Fi´s contract runs out. It may very well be that no station in the US has bought it yet (or they have but they don't want to announce it since they are also buying the syndication and they aren't ready to announce that). I also wouldn't be surprised to find that they are following the mini series up with a theatrical movie. Farscape is certainly popular enough for that, but they can't do a feature film without resolving the last episode first.

A B5 TV project on the other hand could ONLY be sparked by a TV station, Warner would never invest money in it (after all, B5 is already in the green). A feature film however might very well appeal to Warner as a way to capitalize further on B5´s popularity.


Also Joseph DeMartino point that this might be a project unrelated to B5 is a good one. JMS certainly is prolific enough for it. He must have a bunch of spec scripts that have never gotten produced and he's just the man to go to if you have a valuble 'product' but are having trouble getting the thing to work.
 
Like many, I would like to see B5 return to the screen, either big or small, but rumours aside, I reserve judgement on wether is is/will/has returned until I see something official.

But when and if it does, I'll be first in the que

:) :cool: ;)
 
I'm just hoping Mira Furlan and Bruce Boxleitner will be in whatever it is.

As for the rumor, I'll believe it when JMS says it.
 
They also have a division in Santa Monica, CA.

I know. That's why I called Winchester a U.K.-based studio. :)

They have an office in Santa Monica. I'm not sure it counts as a division, and it almost certainly isn't a studio. :) Like I said, they've partnered with U.S. studios in the past, and I believe they also do "indy" projects (primarily providing financing and distribution deals, rather than studio space) probably on both sides of the Atlantic. At least one of the links I came across had a story about Jennier Love Hewitt "re-teaming" with Winchester for a film that she's producing. (Winchester was involved in her MGM film, Heartbreakers which co-starred Sigourney Weaver.) So it makes sense that they'd have an office in the Los Angeles area, just as it makes sense that major British banks have offices in New York and Chicago, even if they don't have any branches or otherwise do customer-level business in the U.S.

For that matter Warner Bros. has offices in New York and in London, and its main facilities in Burbank, but it remains a "Hollywood" studio. :D

Regards,

Joe
 
What about Direct to DVD?

I've been mulling this idea ever since jms said it wasn't a tv show and that people who were thinking "feature film" were probably closer to the mark. It would make a lot of sense too; The direct-to-dvd option lets WB avoid the cost and aggrivation of finding an outlet to air it on (telemovie) and saves the considerable distribution expense involved in launching a feature film - a risky venture for a little-known commodity.

They know the DVDs sell well, so their goal may be an inexpensive way to create more product to keep the cash coming in after they've released all of B5 and Crusade. Continuing projects may develop depending on their profitability. It's a targeted marketing plan with the greatest chance of success.
 
Re: What about Direct to DVD?

I've been mulling this idea ever since jms said it wasn't a tv show and that people who were thinking "feature film" were probably closer to the mark.

Actually JMS said that neither of the two projects then under discussion was a TV series - back in September. Later he said that it wasn't a print project - and that those who were guessing that it was something "for television for films" were closer to the mark.

I consider a "DVD original" extremely unlikely. The reason the current DVDs are so profitable for Warner Bros. at current sales levels is that the episodes themselves are already paid for. All they have to do is created the supplemental materials, program the menus, replicate, package and ship the disc. They are not paying almost $22 million per season to make the major contents. It is doubtful that the DVDs would be this much of a success if they were.

While it is true that Fox is going to experiment with a direct-to-DVD 24 spin-off, it is important to note that it will be a "no stars" version. Given that it is a contemporary series set on the planet Earth, production costs are going to be much less for this "series" than for the original - and certainly much less than B5 if it were being produced today. The 24 model is also uniquely arc-intensive for American television, truly a show where you can't miss an episode without losing track of the story (or hitting major spoilers) and therefore uniquely suited to the DVD medium. I've never watched 24 "live". By the time I'd heard enough about it to be interested it was several episodes into S1 and I hate coming in in the middle. With S2 my work schedule made it impossible to watch the show, and I was already taping enough other stuff that I really couldn't see trying to follow another series. So I rented the show on DVD and was able to get through a season in a week with no commercials, and probably more enjoyment. 24 is probably doable as a direct-to-DVD project (despite the stigma that attaches to most direct-to-home-video productions - excepting Disney rip-off sequels - in Hollywood.) I don't think B5 is.

The direct-to-dvd option lets WB avoid the cost and aggrivation of finding an outlet to air it on (telemovie)

But they'd still have to heavily advertise the new "movie-on-DVD" to make sure that people realize it is new, rather than just a DVD issue of an existing telefilm. And the popularity of the DVDs will make finding a distribution partner easier than it has been in the past. (In fact, the success of the DVDs may have led a broadcast or cable outlet to approach Warner Bros. about doing a new, high profile B5 project.)

and saves the considerable distribution expense involved in launching a feature film - a risky venture for a little-known commodity.

If every season is selling a few hundred thousand copies than clearly B5 is no longer a "little known" commodity. In the nature of things a lot more people are going to be interested in a show than will plunk down $70 or $80 to buy it, so the sales of the DVDs are probably showing Warner Bros. that there is a much larger audience for this property than the anemic ratings for the reruns on the Sci-Fi Channel would indicate. If anything this should encourage WB to consider a theatrical film - because they know that in addition to airline, television and international revenues they can count on eventual world-wide DVD revenues after the theatrical run. That considerably reduces the risk of doing a theatrical film. Given what JMS and company have managed to do with $3 to $4 million for TV a B5 feature could easily be done for $30 to $50 million - about the cost of a modest romantic comedy with a star or two in it. They could cover that kind of money just with the ancillary revenues mentioned above, and without selling a single ticket in the U.S.

I don't think Warner Bros. needs to consider direct-to-DVD at this point - no matter what Jerry Doyle thinks. :)

Regards,

Joe
 
Re: What about Direct to DVD?

If every season is selling a few hundred thousand copies than clearly B5 is no longer a "little known" commodity. In the nature of things a lot more people are going to be interested in a show than will plunk down $70 or $80 to buy it, so the sales of the DVDs are probably showing Warner Bros. that there is a much larger audience for this property than the anemic ratings for the reruns on the Sci-Fi Channel would indicate. If anything this should encourage WB to consider a theatrical film - because they know that in addition to airline, television and international revenues they can count on eventual world-wide DVD revenues after the theatrical run. That considerably reduces the risk of doing a theatrical film. Given what JMS and company have managed to do with $3 to $4 million for TV a B5 feature could easily be done for $30 to $50 million - about the cost of a modest romantic comedy with a star or two in it. They could cover that kind of money just with the ancillary revenues mentioned above, and without selling a single ticket in the U.S.

You are absolutely on the money (so to speak) there Joe. A B5 movie could undoubtedly be produced for $50 million, after all, no big name stars are needed.

And if we look at the numbers a bit further we can see that IF a B5 movie were to be successful (doing more then just appealing to existing fans) that would then relate to even better sales for the existing DVDs as a new audience discovers the show and will probably mean a better price for future syndication (whenever Sci-Fi's current contract runs out). In other words, a movie can reenergize the entire franchise. That could possibly lead to more feature films and/or new TV shows if things go really well. Now why wouldn't they spend 50 million when the outcome might well be a new cash cow?

It simply makes good business sense to make a feature film now.
 
Re: What about Direct to DVD?

In reading this thread, and the recent posts about a possible feature film... can any one else think of another sci fi franchise in history that was running in odd syndication deals when they decided to make a major motion picture... that then revamped the franchise? Even if it was a pretty bad film. ;-)

Can anyone say Star Trek: The Motion(less) Picture? Hopefully this (insert speculation disclaimer here) could be the start of something great. ;-)

Regards,

-Tim
 
Re: What about Direct to DVD?

I believe JMS said he could do a high quality theatrical picture for $35 million, but that was back when he still had the infrastructure in place.

I disagree with your disagreement Joe. B5 is, sadly, a little known commodity when you venture away from conventions and fan sites. There isn't a "real" person in my life that I can chat up B5 with.

I don't see why a new B5 DVD would require any more advertising than the current ones, and truth be told, if you want to know about the DVDs, don't go to friggin WBHV.com, because they are the LAST to post anything. The fans themselvews serve as both the target customer and the advertising. If they sell it, we will buy.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a B5 picture but when a sci-fi/adventure film needs a $50 million opening weekend to be considered a hit these days, I don't know how much the spineless toadies at WB will support such a project.
 
Re: What about Direct to DVD?

I disagree with your disagreement Joe. B5 is, sadly, a little known commodity when you venture away from conventions and fan sites.

When I venture into Best Buy it is an obviously known commodity because a number of copies of the set are on sale there. When I look at the TV schedules for the past five or six years it is a known commodity because it has been on the air almost every day for every one of those years - which is something that "cult" genre shows simply do not acheive.

It does look like Sci-Fi doesn't have B5 scheduled after the end of this month. I don't know if they are "resting" the show, suspending it during January because they're doing other programming during a period when regular viewing patterns are distrupted or if they're exclusive contract has run out and not been renewed. If they're "resting" the show because it has "burned out" or even if they've dropped it for that reason, I won't be too upset. If anything I'm surprised that it has taken this long, given that the first four seasons entered heavy rotation in 1998. It was inevitable the existing fans would tire of watching the reruns on TV (especially with the DVDs) and equally inevitable that few new fans will discover the show at 9 AM ET/PT.

But it has been building an audience steadily since it started in daily reruns, and the DVDs are increasing that audience. It isn't a part of the popular culture that way Star Trek and Star Wars are, but it isn't as obscure as Stargate, Firefly and Farscape are. I've seen far more references to B5 in other TV shows, cartoons and from stand-up comedians than I have references to those other shows.

There isn't a "real" person in my life that I can chat up B5 with.

And that's just one reason why anecdotal evidence from your life in particular is rarely used to make major marketing decisions. :)

Seriously, that's no way to judge how widespread the interest in something is. The people you know simply aren't a large enough sample to be statistically meaningful. This is the fallacy of generalizing from an unrepresentative group, sometimes known as the "Kael Fallacy." (Named for film critic Pauline Kael who on the day after the presidential election of 1972 complained, in all seriousness, that she couldn't understand how Nixon had won because not a single person she knew had voted for him. Nixon's victory was one of the biggest electoral landslides in U.S. history.)

I don't know a single person who uses heroin, but my police friends assure me that it is still popular and still a multi-billion dollar industry. So somebody out there must like it, even if I don't run into them on a daily basis. Ditto the Society for Creative Anarchronims, and people who collect beanie babies. The world is a big enough place that something can have millions of followers and still not have more than two in any given town.

The only films that "have" to make $50 million on their opening weekends are films that cost $100 million or more to make. (Since the rule of thumb is that a film must gross three times its production cost to break even.) That's why films like Titantic are such momunental gambles. That picture had to be one of the 5 top grossing films of all times just to break even. There is no reason to spend that kind of money on a B5 picture, and therefore no reason to put that kind of pressure on it. Like I said, if WB controls the budget there is no reason they can't be in the black (by selling overseas, television and other rights) before the picture even opens. (The producer of the star-studded adapation of Cornelius Ryan's WWII book, A Bridge Too Far did exactly that. Desptie diappointing box office and tepid reviews, the film still ended up making money.)

All the movie has to do is open. If it is good, word of mouth will bring in more audiences. Probably not one person out of ten who saw either of the X-Men movies had read one of the comics or even heard of them. The commercials looked cool, the story was accessible, the word of mouth was good. The die hard comics fans opened the first flick, the film itself kept audiences coming back.

And why is everybody constantly beating up on Warner Bros? By and large they've done very well by this show, from taking a chance on doing a non-Trek SF show in the first place, to getting out of JMS's way and letting him do his story on his terms, to backing him up when things went bad with TNT.

Nobody ever talks about any of this, but everybody makes smart ass comments about every persnickety little problem from the hubs to using the word "season" on the DVD sets to losing the CGI files (admittedly a monumental screw-up, but people talk about it like it was an act of malice directed at them personally.) I've said it before and I'll say it again, SF fans are the whiniest, most annoying bunch of people in the world if the least little thing goes wrong or they don't get exactly what they want. Warner Bros. sunk something like $125 million bucks into B5, all told. They kept the show on the air, year after year. They tried two home video releases in the U.S. because the fans begged for them (and then had to cancel them when those same fans stopped buying them) Despite the failure of their first two attempts, they released the show again on DVD and did it just the way most of the fans they'd heard from had asked for it - widescreen, with extras, Dolby Digital sound remixes...

And for all this they get called "spineless toadies" and treated like they are somehow the enemy. This when they're actually paying JMS to write another new B5 universe project! What is our collective problem?

Regards,

Joe
 
Re: What about Direct to DVD?

Joe I just want to say I so thoroughly enjoy reading your responses. You should be a writer. Are you??? :)
 
Re: What about Direct to DVD?

I disagree with your disagreement Joe. B5 is, sadly, a little known commodity when you venture away from conventions and fan sites.

...
But it (B5) has been building an audience steadily since it started in daily reruns, and the DVDs are increasing that audience. It isn't a part of the popular culture that way Star Trek and Star Wars are, but it isn't as obscure as Stargate, Firefly and Farscape are. I've seen far more references to B5 in other TV shows, cartoons and from stand-up comedians than I have references to those other shows.

Hmm, I would have considered B5 to be more obscure than Stargate SG-1 is, due to SG-1's Showtime exposure, Sci-Fi exposure, syndication exposure, and the nature of the show (set in the present time, having the trappings of a current military look, and being less arc-intensive and easier for the casual fan to step into).


Like I said, if WB controls the budget there is no reason they can't be in the black (by selling overseas, television and other rights) before the picture even opens. (The producer of the star-studded adapation of Cornelius Ryan's WWII book, A Bridge Too Far did exactly that. Desptie diappointing box office and tepid reviews, the film still ended up making money.)

Agreed, except that JMS is also a major factor in budget control. I doubt that WB will have to do much controlling.


All the movie has to do is open. If it is good, word of mouth will bring in more audiences. Probably not one person out of ten who saw either of the X-Men movies had read one of the comics or even heard of them. The commercials looked cool, the story was accessible, the word of mouth was good. The die hard comics fans opened the first flick, the film itself kept audiences coming back.

True, plus die-hard fans will probably see it multiple times, if it's good.

And why is everybody constantly beating up on Warner Bros? By and large they've done very well by this show, from taking a chance on doing a non-Trek SF show in the first place, to getting out of JMS's way and letting him do his story on his terms, to backing him up when things went bad with TNT.

Nobody ever talks about any of this, but everybody makes smart ass comments about every persnickety little problem from the hubs...

What's annoying is their apparent unwillingness to correct the problem by going to a better design in subsequent sets.


to using the word "season" on the DVD sets

What? Who cares?


to losing the CGI files (admittedly a monumental screw-up,

Sooooo monumental that it's hard to believe that it was an accident. Nobody could be THAT stupid, and if it was an accident, they had the wrong people in charge of the files. Indeed, if I worked at WB and either was the one who lost the files, or ordered the destruction of the files, I'd expect to get fired over it. That's what would have happened at my place of employment. I know that wouldn't result in the recovery of the files, but it would set an example.


but people talk about it like it was an act of malice directed at them personally.)

Not directed at them personally, but at the genre (not being taken as seriously as other genres, the favorite butt of jokes, etc.).


I've said it before and I'll say it again, SF fans are the whiniest, most annoying bunch of people in the world if the least little thing goes wrong or they don't get exactly what they want.

Well, very often we are lovers of the Rodney Dangerfield of genres (the genre that doesn't get respect). Witness how JMS is of the opinion that "Return of the King" has little chance getting a Best Picture Oscar because the way the Academy votes. IMO, the first two deserved Best Picture Oscars, but they got only technical ones. If the Academy doesn't give it one this time.... :mad:

>Anyone want to take bets on the best picture oscar?
>

It's not likely; the Academy doesn't tend to recognize genre films in this
category. I'm hoping that Jackson will get the award for Best Director, but
even that's a leap for the traditionally conservative Academy.

jms

(jmsatb5@aol.com)
(all message content (c) 2003 by synthetic worlds, ltd.,
permission to reprint specifically denied to SFX Magazine
and don't send me story ideas)
 
Oscars for \"Return of the King\"

IMO, the first two deserved Best Picture Oscars, but they got only technical ones. If the Academy doesn't give it one this time....
<RANT TYPE="Tangential, nearing off-topic">
It´s the studio´s fault for not entering it as a documentary. :D Maybe not a contemprorary documentary, but certainly a historical documentary. Treating RotK with the same level of seriousness as a Bible documentary would fit right into this "anything goes mentality", and won´t compromise the genre any further . :rolleyes: </RANT>
 
Re: What about Direct to DVD?

Nobody ever talks about any of this, but everybody makes smart ass comments about every persnickety little problem from the hubs to using the word "season" on the DVD sets to losing the CGI files (admittedly a monumental screw-up, but people talk about it like it was an act of malice directed at them personally.) I've said it before and I'll say it again, SF fans are the whiniest, most annoying bunch of people in the world if the least little thing goes wrong or they don't get exactly what they want. Warner Bros. sunk something like $125 million bucks into B5, all told. They kept the show on the air, year after year. They tried two home video releases in the U.S. because the fans begged for them (and then had to cancel them when those same fans stopped buying them) Despite the failure of their first two attempts, they released the show again on DVD and did it just the way most of the fans they'd heard from had asked for it - widescreen, with extras, Dolby Digital sound remixes...

And for all this they get called "spineless toadies" and treated like they are somehow the enemy. This when they're actually paying JMS to write another new B5 universe project! What is our collective problem?

You know Joe, I FULLY agree with you. It seems like spoiled child.

If I were WB I would be really pissed of with all this complaining. It is so easy to complain and so hard to acknowledge..... As I said in another message, with all this "crying babies" situation, we will never be a serious source of opinion for the WB studios.

Take Care,

Cadu
Za_ha_dum
 

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