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Sheridan and the Exclaibur ?

S

Shaal Mayan

Regular
I seem of a questioning mind her today anyway.I know that this question has been asked but I can't seem to find a good enough one .Here goes In Season Sheridan is approached by Earthgov for a new class of warships and Delenn is sent to ask the Grey Council for approval ,they approve and the Exclabiur and the Victory are the result of the combined minbari,vorlon itechnology .Given the events during the Earth's civil war and the fact that Earth had been using Shadow tech why did he go along with the plan to give Earth even more advanced weapons when he already knew that they had been dabbling with the shadows.. I think Sheridan was a fool to go along with it when the question of shadow tech could have been resolvedand blown out of the water along time before Crusade would have begun.
 
I seem of a questioning mind her today anyway.I know that this question has been asked but I can't seem to find a good enough one .Here goes In Season Sheridan is approached by Earthgov for a new class of warships and Delenn is sent to ask the Grey Council for approval ,they approve and the Exclabiur and the Victory are the result of the combined minbari,vorlon itechnology .Given the events during the Earth's civil war and the fact that Earth had been using Shadow tech why did he go along with the plan to give Earth even more advanced weapons when he already knew that they had been dabbling with the shadows.. I think Sheridan was a fool to go along with it when the question of shadow tech could have been resolvedand blown out of the water along time before Crusade would have begun.
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He didn't. In fact, you've got it the wrong way around. It was Sheridan who approached President Luchenko to suggest a joint Earth/Minbari project. His idea was the the Minbari provide the design specs and material and Earth would handle the financing and construction.

This fit in with the Alliance granting new technologies to member races. Sure, he knew *Clarke* had had black projects trying to adapt Shadow technology, but he didn't have any reason to suspect or assume that Luchenko would have maintained them. In fact, chances were that she wouldn't have if she hadn't been mopping up after Clarke.

Jan
 
I suspect Sheridan thought of the new ship. He brought Earthgov in as a bribe to keep them honest and to get the money.

Also as shown in "Thirdspace" when there is a possibility of new weapon being discovered deep down Sheridan is on Earthforce’s side. He just has to hide it in public.
 
Yup, Jan is right. I was going to say that but with a lot more words and it would have been understood less clearly.
 
While the Excalibur project was highly successful, Sheridan did not foresee the continued development of Shadow tech by elements of EarthGov. This is not surprising

One of Sheridan's most interesting character traits is his inherent naivite. Even though he's a grizzled warrior, survived the near elimination of his species, became a martyr/messiah/warlord/politician, accomplished, saw and suffered so much, he does not have this vision of "evil" that matches what people can do. It's as if he expects people to just be normal and decent. My favorite instance of this is when he could not imagine how the propoganda "journalists" would chop up his words and actions so blatantly in Illusions of Truth. Oh sure he expected bias but could not imagine them going that far.

It's the same with the Shadow tech. This stuff proved to be uncontrollable, destructive, and it was weilded by a tyrant. Surely no one would touch it.. right?
 
I seem of a questioning mind her today anyway.I know that this question has been asked but I can't seem to find a good enough one .Here goes In Season Sheridan is approached by Earthgov for a new class of warships and Delenn is sent to ask the Grey Council for approval ,they approve and the Exclabiur and the Victory are the result of the combined minbari,vorlon itechnology .Given the events during the Earth's civil war and the fact that Earth had been using Shadow tech why did he go along with the plan to give Earth even more advanced weapons when he already knew that they had been dabbling with the shadows.. I think Sheridan was a fool to go along with it when the question of shadow tech could have been resolvedand blown out of the water along time before Crusade would have begun.
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I always understood it that it was the Warlock-class cruisers that were the result of the technology given to Earth by the Interstellar Alliance at the end of Season 4. The Excalibur and Victory were built by the Alliance to bulk up the Ranger's fleet, and replace some of the White Stars they had lost. All the Interstellar Alliance did was give Earth the artificial gravity technology so that they could be on a level playing field to everyone else. In Crusade the Excalibur is only on loan to Earth. It is not primarily an Earth vessel.
 
But with the design specs to build one (Earth was supposed to supply the financing and the labor) they would in turn have the technology available to build one of their own, yes?
 
I don't know if Earth would have got the full design specs. But even if they did, they would not have an advantage over any one else, as the Alliance was sharing technology freely amongst all member races. One of the main points of having the Aliance was so that everyone was on the same playing field. The problem with the Shadow tech is that it wasn't being shared by Earth, it was being kept for covert use and to give Earth an advantage. If the Alliance had that technology it would have been shared amongst everybody, if it was safe to use.
 
I tend to think that Luchenko didn't keep Clark's black projects around, so I don't see Earth having any chance of contributing Shadow tech to a new destroyer for the Alliance.
 
I seem of a questioning mind her today anyway.I know that this question has been asked but I can't seem to find a good enough one .Here goes In Season ___ Sheridan is approached by Earthgov for a new class of warships and Delenn is sent to ask the Grey Council for approval ,they approve and the Exclabiur and the Victory are the result of the combined minbari,vorlon itechnology .Given the events during the Earth's civil war and the fact that Earth had been using Shadow tech why did he go along with the plan to give Earth even more advanced weapons when he already knew that they had been dabbling with the shadows.. I think Sheridan was a fool to go along with it when the question of shadow tech could have been resolvedand blown out of the water along time before Crusade would have begun.
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He didn't. In fact, you've got it the wrong way around. It was Sheridan who approached President Luchenko to suggest a joint Earth/Minbari project. His idea was the the Minbari provide the design specs and material and Earth would handle the financing and construction.
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Small nit: Sheridan and Delenn hatched up the idea of a Destroyer Class Whitestar in Season 5 (2262), because they would be soon running out of Whitestars, and because they were using Whitestars against ships of all sizes, even against ships that were far larger, and that they could not continue to do this because they'd run out, and because (unstated) after awhile the enemy adapts and your once whiz-bang ship becomes more defeatable.



This fit in with the Alliance granting new technologies to member races. Sure, he knew *Clarke* had had black projects trying to adapt Shadow technology, but he didn't have any reason to suspect or assume that Luchenko would have maintained them. In fact, chances were that she wouldn't have if she hadn't been mopping up after Clarke.
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I doubt she knew about all of them, especially Major Lee's black project of Crusade: "End of the Line."
 
I tend to think that Luchenko didn't keep Clark's black projects around, so I don't see Earth having any chance of contributing Shadow tech to a new destroyer for the Alliance.
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She would hardly be the only one able to keep Shadow tech. Who says anyone told her where some of the new ideas came from?
 
She probably didn't know. I bet Clark kept a lot of stuff from her.
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It is easy for defence departments to hide entire projects - you do not advertise them and merge their costs in with other projects when the public accounts are published.

Churchill did not know Britain was building a nuclear bomb until he became prime minister again in 1949. Most of the cabinet only found out when the bomb was tested.
 
I tend to think that Luchenko didn't keep Clark's black projects around, so I don't see Earth having any chance of contributing Shadow tech to a new destroyer for the Alliance.
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Spoilers for B5 Short Story "Hidden Agendas"...
<font color="#081657">
Correction: At the beginning of the short story, Ivanova's ship: EA Titans, and all other Warlock Class Destroyers use shadowtech and Minbari artificial gravity. At the end of the short story, Ivanova's ship (EA Titans) no longer uses shadowtech, it having been purged by Lyta and the Vorlon tech from the now onboard Vorlon transport (Ulkesh's, reconstructed).
</font>
 
Just curios,Excalibur is a combination of Vorlon,Minbari and Earth,so,if we took a Vorlon ship or even a Shadow one,and put it one on one with the Excalibur,who would win?

Minbari is a weaker race compared to the Vorlons or Shadows,did they use some Vorlon and some Minbari tech to make Excalibur,or is Excalibur full minbari and full vorlon tech combined together?Does this mean,that IF EVER,the shadows returned,the Excalibur can really kick their butts?
 
The Vorlons gave the Minbari sufficient technology to permit the White Stars to destroy the Shadow Battle Crabs. This technology was included in the Excalibur.
 
Plus, even the Vorlons might have missed some technological developments.

The South Americans built rather advanced civilizations without inventing the wheel. Many people are using Microsoft products, etc.
 
AMS wrote:
The Vorlons gave the Minbari sufficient technology to permit the White Stars to destroy the Shadow Battle Crabs. This technology was included in the Excalibur.
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Well, a White Star could take out a Shadow Battle Crab assuming that a telepath had knocked out the Shadow ship's brain. Otherwise I doubt the White Star would be able to deal with one. It can destroy a Shadow ship that's just sitting in space -- one that's actually moving and fighting back? That's another question.

Now Excalibur has more firepower than the old White Stars, and so it probably could hurt a Shadow ship. But the Vorlons seemed to build their vessels tougher. I wouldn't want to take Excalibur out against a major Vorlon cruiser, for example -- it would probably be tough enough to survive the encounter, but not win it.
 
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