Senna (spoilers for Centauri trilogy)

[GKarsEye]

I have a question / topic for discussion regarding the character of Senna from the Legion of Fire novels. It was sparked by the question about her in the trivia thread.

Spoiler Box Amnesty: I declare a Spoiler Box Amnesty for this thread:

IF YOU DON'T WANT ANY SPOLIERS ABOUT THE LEGION OF FIRE (CENTAURI) TRILOGY, DON'T READ THIS THREAD!

There, we may speak freely now.

Ok, so it seems everyone here is saying that the character in In the Beginning who is babysitting the annoying kids to whom Londo recites the story is Senna, the woman who threw a rock at Londo and lived at the palace, uncovering elements of the Drakh influence. Is this directly stated in the novels? Because if it isn't, then I don't think it was her.

1) She seemed like she didn't know him. She was tentative and nervous around Londo. Senna was not. She was familiar with him. The woman in In the Beginning behaved like a servant, not a friend.

2) Senna initially resented Londo because of the bad state of affairs on Centauri Prime. I therefore find it hard to believe the she was so calm and accepting of the fact that the place was burning down. Senna was not blindly loyal and devoted. The movie woman was: kind of like one of those guards.

3) Unless I'm just a crazy perverted weirdo, I'm pretty sure the woman in the movie was offering herself to Londo. Londo then turns her down. "I would like to walk on a beach with you" = "I would totally do you if I could." The woman in the movie was completely devoted to the title of Emperor, and like Cartagia's guards and entourage, was more than eager to do anything for her emperor. Londo probably turned her down because sex with a Keeper on his shoulder would just be weird. (Gosh, I wonder if that means Londo never got laid for the last 20 years of his life? That sucks.) Senna would never suggest she sleep with Londo.

Another issue of contention between those novels and the show is Vir. In the novel he fell in love with Senna, right? In Sleeping in Light, he's covorting with two hos. God knows I support that sort of thing whole-heartedly, but it just doesn't seem like something Vir would do. Maybe Senna died before SiL, that's possible.

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."

 

[Kribu]

A quote from the Centauri trilogy, book 3, p. 213; Jan 2, 2278. Londo 'speaking':

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>I looked at the lady Senna, and in a low voice, a voice that might once have been alluring when spoken by a young and handsome man, I said to her, "Dear lady ... I would love to walk with you on a beach ... somewhere. For just five minutes." I felt tears welling in my eyes, and I fought them back. It was the single greates battle of my life. "How strange ... to have come this far, and to want so little."

I turned away from her, for I did now know how much longer I could keep my eyes dry. A dear, sweet woman. Two lovely children. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, it is the same Senna.

However, I think that Peter David - who also did the novelization of ItB, right? - only decided later that this young woman would be Senna. That's why she behaves a bit oddly, compared to what we might expect, based on the book.

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"Isn't the universe an amazing place? I wouldn't live anywhere else." - G'Kar, B5: Rangers
Kribu's Lounge | kribu@ranger.b5lr.com

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

Senna is named as the same character in the novelization of In the Beginning, which was also written by Peter David. Her characterization in that book does not match the way she is presented in the Centauri Trilogy, but she is the same character. And in Out of the Darkness she is explicitly presented as the woman who has care of the children, and to whom Londo addresses his "beach" comment.

I don't think JMS had worked out all the details surrounding Londo's fate when he wrote In the Beginning, and that the governess was just a minor character introduced for those scenes. Ditto Vir's two wives or whatever they were in "SiL." (As I recall, the governess isn't even given a name in the film, either in the dialogue or the credits. She doesn't become "Senna" until the novelization.)

When it came time to write the outlines for the Del Rey trilogies, JMS decided to tie the events into the series and the movies by using Senna instead of creating a new character. This leads to a bit of a disconnect between the later novels and the film (and even more with the novelization), but that is one of those things about a work-in-progress like Babylon 5. You can't go back and revised the earlier chapters if you get a better idea later, so you just live with the fact that in some places the seams are going to show.

Granted, the seams show rather more here than they do in other places. Peter David even makes a number of errors in chronology that contradict the series. (Jeanne Cavelos does a marvelous job, by contrast, in blending the events of the Technomage Trilogy into the series. Her take on "The Geometry of Shadows" turns the episode completely on its head without once contradicting anything that appears on the screen.) I suspect that the original notes provided to David contained a typo in one date, and that he calculated everything else based on the original error, since the mistakes seem to be pretty consistent.

I doubt any of this will ever get corrected, unless Rangers becomes a series and is such a giant hit that it drives book sales and makes revised editions of some of the existing novels worthwhile.

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net

 

[Elizar]

miss send

[This message has been edited by Elizar (edited January 06, 2002).]

 

[Jomar]

Without having to do a search of the archives, I am sure that someone once asked JMS if Senna was the young woman in ItB and he said "Yes".

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I always seem to be diagonally parked in a parallel universe.

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

RE: Vir and his "wives"

Centauri tradition is for powerful men to have more than one wife, and there's no reason to think Vir would be exempt, nor that Senna would object terribly. It is quite possible the she is one of the women frolicking with Vir when the Ranger arrives with Sheridan's invitation. At least I like to think she is.

(Vir seems to have lossened up considerably between 2278 and 2281 in any event.)


Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net

 

[bakana]

If my memory isn't playing trick on me, there are a couple things to note: Senna is Lord Refa's daughter. The only surviving member of Refa's family.

Londo feels a bit guilty.

But mostly, he admires the spirit of anyone who is brave enough to bounce a Brick off his head and tell him he's Screwed Up.

The two Children she is babysitting are (I believe) Urza Jaddo's grandchildren. Urza Jaddo was the old friend Londo was forced to Kill in the duel during the episode "Knives" in Season 2.


As far as Vir having more wives, I don't have a problem with it.
It is Centauri custom. Particularly for the Emperor.
Considering the sort of person Vir is, he probably allowed Senna to choose them.
And Senna would have chosen women Both She and Vir could love.

Senna was the Practical sort.

And Vir knew, from seeing Londo's experiences, the price of choosing wives who Don't inspire feelings of love and trust.

One of the more Interesing unanswered questions is: What Happened to Lyndisty, Vir's First fiance?

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Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."

 

[RW7427]

Yeah. I always wondered as well if this was the same Senna, because I too noticed the difference in the way she acted in the movie from the way she acted in the books. But inspite of that, I liked Senna, especially in the books. I found myself liking her and rooting for her, inspite of the fact that her father was Lord Refa and that I don't care too much for him.

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Lorien: Who are you?
RW: The salad man.
Lorien: Why are you here?
RW: To be the salad ambassador.
Lorien: What do you want?
RW: Everyone to know the joys of salad.
Lorien: Do you have anything worth living for?
RW: Yes, my salad bars.

 

[bakana]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> ... in spite of the fact that her father was Lord Refa and that I don't care too much for him. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So, you're a "Sins of the Father shall be visited upon the children" kind of guy?

BTW, when do we get the "nudge, nudge" smiley to go along with the Wink?

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Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."

 

[GKarsEye]

Kribu, thanks for posting that excerpt from the book. Now that I read it again, I remember being susrprised at the description of Londo when he told her that beach thing. It's pretty clear in the movie that he was feeling sorry for himself, not that the particularly cared for the woman.

I don't see why they felt a need to make the babysitter an important character in the book. They could have just made Senna someone else entirely.

Regarding Vir, yeah, I really don't have a problem with his multiple wives thing (I'm rather jealous, actually). Only, Vir thought and behaved more like a human than a Centauri, so the idea of him with multiple wives is just odd. I always saw that scene as just Vir getting his imperial jollies. It's just a quirky contradiction seeing Vir so in love with Senna in the book, then three years later jumping in the middle of a chick sandwich. Maybe his experience with Mariel just made him bitter? Good for him.

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."

 

[KoshN]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GKarsEye:
It's pretty clear in the movie that he was feeling sorry for himself, not that the particularly cared for the woman.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Feeling sorry for himself, no, you're being too hard on ol' Londo. It's just that he's been holding up the weight of being Emperor and wearing his keeper for so long, that he would just like to have that load lifted from him for a moment, so that he can know a moment's peace before he dies. Is that asking so much? I don't think so.

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KoshN
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Vorlon Empire

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