Rewatching. Thus, I'm obligated to make a thread.

[Wulf]

I've had B5 in many different formats over the years, but I just found it online in a slightly higher quality than I'd expected so what the hell, time for a rewatch.

Anybody still around these parts, or is it all highly evolved spambots trying to sell me sunglasses? Because that is not... what i do want.

Just finished Infection. And 2 large glasses of brandy. I feel a B5 rewatch deserves the sophistication that only a snifter of brandy can bring, but infection obligated me to down a second snifter.

I'm watching 1x05 and heavily relate with Londo sleeping on the table, but let's say some words. "But in purple, I am stunning."

Sinclair.

Man, Sinclair. "I didn't know you were in charge of the station till I got here. If I'd known, i wouldn't have come."

Sinclair really isn't bothering me yet on this rewatch like he has in the previous ones, but... every scene he's in, I'm highly aware he's an actor that I'm watching in a television show. The cadence of his voice is totally an actor reading lines. I dunno. It's not like Bruce... Boxliner... (...what the f... is his name? I dunno), commander #2 is the greatest actor to ever grace the screen, but I always found his scenes easier to watch for some reason.

Minbari assistant dude just called Delenn Satai in a hallway. That seems like the sort of thing they'd give a heads up on. "By the way, this member of the gray council pretending to be somebody else hasn't advertised her supreme importance, maybe don't mention it in the halls."

The fact that his name isn't coming to me immediately brings great shame to my family.

Sinclair's date just summarized their dinner with "end up in bed together". That would simplify things.

Delenn's ceremony is boring as shit. I think they're eating cherry tomatoes. Delenn is totally eroticizing that tomato eating with sinclair. It was originally intended that she'd caterpillar-seduce him, wasn't it?

Sinclair's date's hair is weird in her next scene.

I don't care for G'kar's paranoia in this episode. Les yawn.

500 credits for wine, blah, and blah? This economy excites and offends me!

"Don't make me feel like a fool!"

Clicking submit.

"Don't touch me unless you mean it!"

 

[Ubik]

Keep these coming and buy some Ray Bans. -SunBot122

Yeah, G'Kar is weirdly campy in some of the earlier episodes. I like O'Hare but Boxleitner has a more natural delivery and definitely lifted the show.

Infection, yikes, that's the episode that made my friend demand we stop watching the show. It's one I tend to skip if trying to hook someone in, unless they are up for also having a good laugh at the show too.

 

[Wulf]

Mind War

NotLyta just assaulted Garibaldi in the elevator based on his thoughts. Seems undisciplined for a PsiSomething.

Bester is the Bestest.

This mental scan is the same type of cheesey as whenever that sex dance happens later in the series.

Assistant PsiCop is really into this role. Lip curls, sneers. Not "good" acting, but she's into it so it works.

Sigma 957, I remember liking where that goes.

Do the jump gate colors ever matter? Blue, yellow, seems like something I'd have noticed and remembered before. Oh well.

This episode sets up a lot of things that pay off way down the road. It's all old and coated in several layers of cheese, but damn, i can't think of any other show that ever pulled off this balance of long term planning and short term interest.

Everything else is either too episodic, or too linear of a story, or too season by season. I dunno. B5 did whatever B5 does just right.

Byebye psicop number 2. The candle that burns twice as bright lasts half as long.

"In memory of love, I give you this thing that never really pans out so we'll give it to somebody else when you're gone"

I can see B5's failsafes kicking in and it's weird, but it's amazing that they all existed.

 

[Kraig]

Do the jump gate colors ever matter? Blue, yellow, seems like something I'd have noticed and remembered before. Oh well.

Jump gates (and points) are directional, a yellow gate for entry to hyperspace, and blue for exiting. Travel is not possible in the 'wrong' direction.

 

[Wulf]

Thanks for the jump gate refresher. This rewatch shall occur entirely at latenight after the wife is in bed, so I'll probably miss other obvious stuff.

The War Prayer

Shaal Mayan sounds like the guy who made The Sixth Sense. This shall prove a point of ongoing distraction.

The gender symbols seem like a weird symbol for a xenophobic group. Aliens have genders too. Animals. Trees. Genders everywhere.

Garibalidi lets Ivanova get away with a lot of shit. But really, if you're gonna grow coffee, do it in your quarters maybe rather than risk an official reprimand.

The face of this Centauri girl is bugging me, i swear I've seen her in something. Or maybe she comes back later. I dunno, i won't ruin it with an IMDb.

Malcolm is shady. No nuance there. C'mon Ivanova, I know you had some personal issues going on, but make better choices girl.

"Run a DNA check on that knife."

I wonder, would aliens have DNA? I mean, we have viruses that run on RNA and that's just here on Earth. You'd think aliens would have something co.pletely unique.

Kosh is watching the most boring Earth montage ever. You'd think he'd load up wikipedia or something slightly more information dense.

CC/Ivanova just got a rose. I guess Malcolm is super dreamy and we can trust him with anything. Disregard my previous distrust.

I'm calling Ivanova CC because i think those are Claudia's initials. Welcome to my stream of consciousness while rewatching.

Molari's wives have great personalities.

Garibaldi just let a hatedul dude with weapon charges run free. That'll turn out great for anybody and wouldn't look bad in the news if he later actually stabs somebody, right?

The cloaking tech on this hate group seems unnecessary. Far cheaper to just go with the pantyhose over their head that they already had. I mean they dropped cloak as they walked around the corner and didn't turn it back on as they fled.

These guys are beating up the xenophobe based on absolutely no probable cause. I feel that's supposed to feel justified, but they really just picked some random dude. Maybe hate begets hate, and that's the real message. Makes ya think.

Why doesn't medlab have rooms? Do germs not exist any more? Why is the poet arguing medical procedures? Maintain sterility here, get out people. Damnit Franklin, maintain control of your workplace.

*gasp* Malcolm is really a bad guy? Les gasp.

Radical hate groups always blindly embrace anybody that superficially spouts their talking points, right? There's no way this plan of their's could go wrong.

Woah, woah, woah.

Molari's shoes are too tight. I've never been certain if this is cheese or deep. Deep cheese, maybe, and I have forgotten how to dance.

"No, I missed it." How do you miss a war and expect that to be a useful explanation? He's not even a politician. Earth was surrounded, guy. Not a lot more important going on for humans.

Hey, more cloaking tech! ....or they could've just stood behind those crates. Functionally equivalent. I hope they're not paying per cloak.

Good thing these guys started branding random nobodies instead of just carrying out their master plan. And good thing they explained their master plan before the loyalty test.

Gunfight. You have a cloaking device. And a gun.

Cloak. Then shoot. Cmon guys. No, don't just stand behind that crate while visible. They're gonna shoot you.

...aww.

I really feel these guys didn't utilize cloaking to its maximum effect.

DAMNIT SUSAN, WAY TO LET THIS GUY DOWN!

...it's late.

 

[Wulf]

...but not too late for one more episode.

And the sky full of stars

Poor Vince. Dennis seems like the sort of guy you don't want to owe money to. I'm gonna state in advance that this will probably turn out better for Vince if he reports the situtation in advance to his superiors.

Franklin didn't help out our side in the war. He destroyed notes that could have saved his species rather than have them be used for defense.

Traitor, or hero? These aliens were killing us to the last man.

Not as clearcut as the episode would expect us to believe i think.

Damnit Mitchell! It's a trap! I guess the war had a bunch of untrained idiots drafted, so can't really call foul on that.

Comms on the back of the hand seems.. fragile. It's gonna get lost in any sort of scuffle. Or even if you just sweat a lot. And you need 2 hands to operate it. You can't activate it while holding anything else.

"Wherever you go, you're mine!"

This guy's crush on Sinclair has crossed a boundary. Also, if you trap somebody in a simulation you probably shouldn't reveal that it's a simulation that quickly. You could do way more with that little tidbit up your sleeve.

He says cerebral "sarah brull". This is weird.

"Born on Mars at 9:15 AM Earth Standard Time". Wouldn't births be logged on planetary local time? Even ignoring earth centrism, local planetary time is all that could possible matter.

"This isn't real! But let me engage you as if it were!"

Didn't we just see a mind probe 3 episodes ago? Wouldn't that be super ideal for probing a mind? Maybe as a first step?

Sloppy Benson. You know they're monitoring your accounts. Use cash, or secondary accounts. How stupid is he? "Commander's missing and i have 15K extra in my account, the perfect crime."

"What... do you want?" This question has more meaning later but it gets asked a lot.

The general consensus is that depressurized bodies will bloat but not really explode or get overly gross, right?

"There's a hole... in your mind!"

That triangle thing seems to be a highly developed soul detector. But we don't know that yet.

Note to self, when securing military personnel, use more than one strip of velcro.

All's well that ends well. Luckily bad guys can't aim. What was doctortech's end game here? He could've escaped easily if he hadn't chased the commander.

 

[Looney]

Franklin didn't help out our side in the war. He destroyed notes that could have saved his species rather than have them be used for defense.

Traitor, or hero? These aliens were killing us to the last man.

This is definitely one of the most interesting philosophical debates one could have about Franklin. I don't think he can be called a hero and he definitely might be a traitor. It just depends how truly dark things were in his mind. I wish JMS would give some guidance as to whether or not Franklin knew we were truly facing extinction.


*Side note with regard to re-watches here in the U.S. I just noticed that the DVD branch of Netflix no longer offers Seasons Three and Four. So you can no longer see the entire series through Netflix's DVD branch. Very sad. I've had them in my Queue for years just to watch what happened with them and now I see those Seasons are no longer available. That is really going to upset people who are getting Seasons One and Two. And I know there are such people because a couple Discs in those seasons are listed in my Queue as "Very Long Wait". Damn. I mean for them, not me. I have multiple sets of all the DVDs so I am good.

 

[Wulf]

10 years after the fact it's easy to think he made the right call, morally, but this wasn't some vague propaganda about "they hate our freedom", this was an armada of warships very clearly intent on destroying us as a species. No gray area, they wanted us dead, and the best efforts of every human combined weren't able to even slow them down. Wasn't it something ridiculous like they only lost a single capital ship in their entire offensive? (I assume we probably knocked out some fighters somewhere along the line)



Cousins, parents, siblings, nieces, nephews, everybody Franklin had ever known was going to be exterminated.


Was he on Earth at the time, smugly hugging himself while looking down on all the people putting up a defense? Would he have picked up a gun and stood between a Minbari foot-soldier and his family? Is there a moral difference between that and using his knowledge for defense?


Or was he so far removed from the situation that he was able to think we could just hug this one out without further bloodshed?


I don't actually recall this point being examined in any sort of depth. It does come up a few more times I think, but not really examined.

 

[Wulf]

1x09
Deathwalker

Man, people have a lot of violent outbursts on this station. Last episode the captain was running around shooting at his own officers, the telepath was punching security in the gut based on thought, now we've got ambassadorial assistants beating random travellers with a wrench.

Repercussions? Whoderwhatsnows?

This episode seems perfectly passable but it's not engaging me. Yada yada blood oath, yada yada hour of scampering. Yada yada incredible thing in microscope.

MANIACAL CACKLE! I'm beginning to suspect she may be nefarious.

...man, i really don't care about the rest of this episode. Of course this is the one the wife sits to watch with me.

Yada yada, Kosh blew stuff up and nothing discussed mattered.

And so forth.

 

[Wulf]

Believers.

Man, Franklin's kind of a jerk and a hypocrite. Reprimanding his assistant for mishandling the parents as he repeatedly violates their wishes, then immediately heading to Sinclair to ask him to order him to ignore the parents' wishes.

Ivanova's B plot is boring so far. She should've knit that sweater for more effective drama.

C'mon Franklin, you're a damn doctor. Try more treatments than just oils. You can't cut it out, so work around the problem. But nope, "I'm gonna demand we steal your son!"

He's not fresh out of medschool, he shouldn't be this shocked by some culture refusing certain treatments.

This is truly some riveting "nobody cares about you" discussion they're having. Over and over.

"Continue to run silent" Ivanova says while not maintaining radio silence. Good job.

More conversations about how nobody cares about the A plot.

I'm coming off negative and this episode probably deserves better, but i know how it ends so there's no emotional weight. I'm just picking up on all the windows dressings.

Can't he put a tube down his throat and maybe erode the mass with some acid? Do something doctory Franklin.

If you're gonna pull this upcoming shit, at least make a placebo treatment and say that fixed him. "Yup, jalapeno enema, miracle cure".

Ivanova's still flying. Intense. I guess. She somehow got surprised in the vastness of space by something sneaking up on her.

Franklin's really defending his "screw everybody i disagree with" stance. Sinclair and him both think he did the right thing. Boohoo.

Ivanova's B plot magically resolved itself off screen.

I hope she knits a sweater for her next B plot.

 

[Wulf]

1x11
Survivors

What's with the difficult to read signs? It might look alien, but if you want people to grab rail at all times, use a legible font.

I wonder how often this generic "guy ejected into space" model is used throughout the show.

Franklin's mask looks more like he's about to rob a gas station than prevent contamination.

"Garibaldi, i don't care about your assault, but the dying guy muttered something with a G in it so we need your badge and gun, get out of here"

This monotone lady was typing into that console in a terrible, terrible way. That would cause so much wrist strain.

A new episode, a new officer losing his cool and assaulting somebody in public. Is that 4 episodes in a row now?

"He's dead!" And Franklin does absolutely nothing to try help. He's barely stopped breathing when Franklin calls it. Maybe try a little CPR there doc.

Hey, Garibaldi's too tired for dancing, but that probably means he still remembers how. I bet his shoes are just the correct amount of tight.

All this space CGI makes me thing of the Wing Commander series. I loved those games.

Holy shit, these guards see Garibaldi and shoot on sight.

I mean... Jesus. Wow.

Garibaldi's giving me a Die Hard vibe here. Yipee kai yay Minbari lovers.

Do you think there are a lot of chains laying around for the taking on a space station? Freshly cut chain too, not greasy used stuff.

Gee i wonder if Garibaldi will choose to curl into a bottle, or clear his name. Actually, ignore my sass, he chose the bottle. Not super controversial, but at least B5 doesn't always take the knight in shining armor approach. Neat. Except everything resolved itself for him while he was passed out drunk. Convenient.

"I'm holding a ranged weapon, let me just allow you to close to melee range instead of killing the only two people that can foil my evil plot."

Why are all the evil people using their own accounts to transfer funds? Just get a giant burlap sack with a dollar sign on it, far less suspicious.

 

[Looney]

1x11
Survivors

Why are all the evil people using their own accounts to transfer funds? Just get a giant burlap sack with a dollar sign on it, far less suspicious.

Just because they are evil doesn't mean they know what they are doing.

I WISH I had the time or the energy to comment on each of your negative statements.

DEATHWALKER is one I love for the backstory and overall arc implications and not so much for every bit of the execution.

BELIEVERS is one I don't think gets enough credit.

SURVIVORS is a Garibaldi story. :guffaw: :guffaw:

I do feel SURVIVORS does create a connection with regard to the President. It also gives us some insight into how JMS wanted us to see more of background arc stuff.

 

[Wulf]

I'd also like to be very clear that I love the show. You probably couldn't tell from reading my comments... but my baseline expectation is that everything is awesome, so its the rough edges / plot contrivances / snark that my brain picks up to comment on.

This thread is not doing the show justice, it's just how my inner monologue works.

 

[Looney]

You wouldn't be here if you didn't love the show. I was just trying to keep the discussion going.

 

[Wulf]

It occurred to me that a literal reading of what I'm writing would come off as quite harsh, and your post could have been worked from either interpretation.

All good then

 

[Wulf]

1x12
By Any Means Necessary

I don't recall this coming up again. Would Ivanova be the one in charge of telling individual ships to hold? I always pictured her as the sort that would be in charge of the guy with that responsibility.

Interesting side trivia... I know the literal translation of "Dios Mio!" but I googled it for funsies just to see if there was any nuance on the phrase. Google Translate tells me that it means "OMG". This scene takes on a different tone if you picture him screaming "OMG" instead of "my god". Good job Google.

Hey, Narn ceremony. I don't remember seeing many of these, except for whatever happens with G'Kar much later on.

The Jaquan Eth has been destroyed. And it's all Sinclair's fault.

Seriously, triple shifting? And he's only giving a shit now that the Ambassador's been inconvenienced by the explosion and death? Lowest bidder equipment, horribly understaffed maintenance department, B5's kind of a craphole, isn't it?

"Swock!" I don't recall hearing this curse before. Noted.

This motherswocking politician is swocking them over a barrel about this swocky budget. And now the swockers are swocking starting a swocking illegal strike! How dare they not endanger their swocking lives so swockers above them can swocking save some swocking pennies!

"But this isn't the way!" It's literally the only way. People have died and they're telling them to go back to work with absolutely no changes to the environment.

"They have a right to hear what I've just told you!" Uh, the statement that boils down to "get back to work or we'll arrest you"? Think they knew that one already.

Yada yada condescending labour negotiations.... Surprisingly, "Work or we'll shoot you" isn't making any friends.

So, the rush act. What exactly does it authorize?

"Move in with security, and end it now"

What if nobody resists? They just toss em in jail? Then they still have no workers. Forced servitude? Security forces monitoring all 1000 workers as they triple shift, shooting anybody that doesn't work? Why'd this have to turn into a riot? What if they simply refused to work?

...Just for the sake of keeping the streak going, is this the fifth episode in a row with public violence and no charges being laid?

"This station is 12.2 light-years from Narn. That's just over 10 of your light-years."

It's this sort of weird unit conversion that slammed that lander into Mars a while back. Nobody in the future has settled on a standard unit of measure to replace the light year? Imperial gallons or metric gallons or tons or tonnes, dry cup or fluid cup or ounces, oh god, not ounces, why future, why? Why hasn't this eternal struggle been resolved instead of expanded?

I demand metric time.


Edit: Wait, Believers didn't count for the streak, did it? So it's not a streak. Never mind.

 

[Wulf]

I WISH I had the time or the energy to comment on each of your negative statements.

DEATHWALKER is one I love for the backstory and overall arc implications and not so much for every bit of the execution.

BELIEVERS is one I don't think gets enough credit.

SURVIVORS is a Garibaldi story. :guffaw: :guffaw:

I do feel SURVIVORS does create a connection with regard to the President. It also gives us some insight into how JMS wanted us to see more of background arc stuff.

If you're ever feeling up to it, I always enjoy a rousing game of "discuss the nitpick". =]



Deathwalker, I agree. Good for the universe, not so great to actually watch.


Believers, I'd probably enjoy arguing either side of this episode more than I would actually watching it. Some thought provoking stuff, but I'm not really sure it builds the universe at all, and after you've thunk all the relevant thoughts, I'm not sure it's entertaining on a rewatch. I definitely would not recommend skipping it on a first run through the series.


Survivors... I want to say this was probably a good episode. A bit cheesy in parts, not the best acting, but it has deeper implications and shows us some G-backstory. I think I'm probably looking forward to the big "Want do you want, and the rock cried out no hiding place, go to z'ha'dum and you will die" moments and not properly appreciating the little things.


Which I should really pay more attention to, because, while I've seen them all before, it's the little things that make the big things worth it. I dunno why I've always struggled to really connect with Season 1. I used to blame Sinclair, but really, it's not him this time.

 

[Jan]

1x12
By Any Means Necessary

...

"Swock!" I don't recall hearing this curse before. Noted.

...

I'm sorry to nitpick ((No, I'm not)) (but you said you didn't mind!) but that curse word is "Shrock". and I'm sure you'll be utterly fascinated to learn that it's used four times in the series.:thumbsup:

 

[Wulf]

*gasp*


"It takes only a moment. But we spend the rest of our lives looking back at that moment in shame."


I appreciate the nitpick.

 

[Wulf]

1x13
Signs and Portents



This opening CGI seems more 90s CGIey than usual.


I remember this episode name but not its content. Is that Morden? Baby faced young little Morden? I think big things are starting. Whee.


Sinclair's asking a lowly security guy to investigate an event that would have been investigated unsuccessfully at the highest levels of government? There would be no documentation in any earth system, with no suspicion of that not being the case. So he's asking him to infiltrate Minbari military? Can't recall where this goes, but sure.


Maybe G'kar's people would have fewer famines if they weren't blowing tens of thousands of currencyunits on drugs for their religious ceremonies.


Ooh, ooh he's gonna say it, it's coming up!


"What do you want?"


....


I mean, I guess he said it. But it wasn't even ominous. Why, nobody at this point in watching would attach any particular significance to it at all.


Alright then.


Carrying on.


G'kar and now the Seer are portenting the shit out of this episode. We've got ourselves a triple serving of portenting with an extra side of signs.


Delenn's forehead thingy would be super awkward if it just goes off every time a being of supreme evil (relative philosophies dependent) walked by. I mean, she works in politics. Would it ever stop triggering? Does it ever go off again? It seems like that would be useful in the future.


Are there Shadows with him at this point? Is he holding the doors open for it? He'd look extremely weird doing so. Are people bumping into the Shadow in the halls?


What's Shadow for "Pardon me, excuse me"?


These raiders are about to bring the Achilles to heel!


What's standard procedure in the military when somebody's attacking you? Do you stand there staring at your commanding officer, or react in the most appropriate manner automatically?


Do inactive jump gates allow comms through?


Damn, the defenseless ship with the capability of fleeing has fled! Who could have foreseen that happening?!


Ah well, decent enough space combat for the time.


You'd think Kyro would have believed his seer. I mean, they have provable abilities ingrained into their culture, not just superstition. Oh well. He'd probably be anti-science in our culture, I guess it happens.


I mean, right now she's sharing a vision with Sinclair. That's not a thing you dismiss casually.