odds of seeing a CRUSADE completion movie?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

im pretty sure this has been asked before, but since im too much of loafer to look for he thread, ill just ask again.


what are the odds? they should be higher than the odds of an accual restarting of the crusade series, seeing that youd have to re-hire all those people for all of those episodes, and the fact that another series is alredy ahead of it. ti would be hard to have two series in the same universe, but one 4 years ahead of the other.


we have to admit, a big story arc was left hanging due to crusades untimely end, and although we know the plague gets cured, we dont know how, or when exaclty. what does every1 else think?

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"if you cant say what you mean, you cant mean what you say"

"better to let a thousand guilty go free than to punish one innocent"

"the best way to find the REAL boss of any establishment is not to look for they person who signs the checks, but to look for the person who hires the lawyers."

 

[Ivanova]

I think the odds are pretty decent. I read that JMS does have other plans for the B5 universe, besides the Rangers movie...maybe its tied in with Crusade somehow. Maybe we could see something with Crusade if B5LR is turned into a tv show, then their timeline will fall on the Crusade timeline in a few years. Yeah, I see a Crusade movie as being plausible.

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Ivanova is always right. I will listen to Ivanova. I will not ignore Ivanova's recommendations. Ivanova is God. And if this ever happens again, Ivanova will personally rip your lungs out.

 

[drakh]

Read the JMS doesn't want CRUSADE? thread.

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Maybe it will, maybe it won't. Regardless, I thought that Crusade was a piece of crap. I don't mean this against JMS as I have seen as you have that he can write a good story. I would like to see it come back, but I believe that he could make it better by starting from scratch, and doing it his way. TNT IMHO was too influential on the series. There were some good episodes, and it did have alot of potential, and I still watch when I have a craving for B5, however, I would not like it to come back in it's current form.

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[hypatia]

Personally, I'd like to see some of the actors return, at least. And so little was done during the short run of Crusade that I can't see a need to really start over from the start. That is practically where it was left anyway.

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"Logic is a pretty wreath of flowers that smell BAD."

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

I think the odds of a "wrap-up" TV movie are zero. You can't wrap up a five year story arc in 92 minutes of screen time. Do you think JMS could have "wrapped up" B5 in one TV movie? Hell, he had five years and people are complaining he didn't "wrap it up."

Crusade will either come back as a series (if Rangers becomes a series, does well, and Sci-Fi decides they want it) or it won't come back at all, at least not on television. (Although I wouldn't rule out their doing another TV movie/pilot first, especially if there is significant recasting.)

If, a year from now, Sci-Fi and JMS have a meeting and decide that there isn't going to be a new Crusade then maybe JMS will write a short story, or authorize a book, in which we find out how the plague was cured, since this unimportant sideshow seems to be the thing a lot of fans are focusing on. But JMS has already said that he designed the main Crusade story as a television series and that's how it has to be told.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>...it would be hard to have two series in the same universe, but one 4 years ahead of the other.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They wouldn't be. Crusade season 1 was set in 2267. The Rangers pilot film takes place no earlier than the second half of 2265 - which means the first season (if the one season = one year rule holds) will have to be in 2266. For production reasons, the earliest Crusade could go back on the air is 2003 - in 2003 Rangers will be starting its second season, which would be set in - 2267. The two shows would be perfectly synchronized.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>...seeing that you'd have to re-hire all those people for all of those episodes<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

*shrug* So if you can't get the original actors in 2003 you recast the show and start over. JMS never wanted to do "War Zone" anyway, and several of the other scripts were heavily impacted by dumb TNT "notes." I'm sure he'd be happy to rewrite a lot of the S1 episodes and reshoot others. Warner Bros. has made its money back on the original 13 episodes. Sci-Fi probably has, too. If they haven't they will the next time they show them. So they can afford to trash them if need be.

Regards,

Joe


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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net

 

[Bester]

Books would be an obvious choice. However, I think the remaining story would require at least a trilogy of trilogy novels!

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Be seeing you

 

[The One Who Was]

Well since Mr. Straczynski said a cure would've been found in season 2, I think a telemovie is quite likely....
Personally, I'd rather read a Crusade book trilogy though....

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"Faith Manages"

 

[-Vorlon-]

har har

in 2004 I want to see both on screen...
Legends of the Rangers and Crusade

there would be so much potential...

seeing The Excalibur and the Valen arriving at Babylon5.
Fighting together in some Cross-overs against teh ancient evil.
That would be great!

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/// The Future Is Always Born In Pain ///

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Well since Mr. Straczynski said a cure would've been found in season 2<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually he said that an apparent cure would be found in S2, which would turn out to be something very different from what EarthGov thought it was. The Exaclibur crew would discover this, but no one would believe them. So they would go renegade and that would begin the real heart of the story. The Drakh plague was never more than a Hitchcockian "McGuffin" in the story, which is why I don't understand why so many people seem fixated on it. Odds are the Excalibur crew wouldn't even be the people who found the alleged cure in S2.

Obviously an actual cure would have been found later in the story, but that would have either a side-effect of what the crew was really up to, or someone like Franklin would discover it in the course of normal research while the Crusade cast continued dealing with their real story.

In any event, JMS has made it perfectly clear that he sees Crusade as a TV series, not a novel or series of novels, not a TV movie. He's written those. As he has also said, you create a given story for a given medium. If he'd conceived B5 as a comic book, that's how he would have written it. He didn't. And the fact that he conceived it as a television show shaped the story itself. As often as he's called it a "novel for television", it obviously isn't. You don't write "stand-alone" chapters in a novel.

The whole nature of the B5 arc was informed by the fact that it was going to be a television series that unfolded over five years. The same is true of Crusade and (presumably) of Rangers. You can't simply take that story and tell it in a different way, because if you do it is no longer the same story, and then what exactly is the point?

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net

 

[bakana]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> In any event, JMS has made it perfectly clear that he sees Crusade as a TV series, not a novel or series of novels, not a TV movie. He's written those. As he has also said, you create a given story for a given medium. If he'd conceived B5 as a comic book, that's how he would have written it. He didn't. And the fact that he conceived it as a television show shaped the story itself. As often as he's called it a "novel for television", it obviously isn't. You don't write "stand-alone" chapters in a novel.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Actually, JMS has said that he intended Babylon 5 to be _All_ of the above. There are Babylon 5 comics. There are Babylon 5 Novels. And the TV show is what ties them all together. To experience the show(s) the way JMS intended, you have to read and watch them All.

It's a gestalt. The Whole is Greater than the Sum of its Parts.




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Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?

 

[DavidB]

Personly I hope JMS does not do B5LR and Crusade at the same time it would just spread him to thin.

However I would like to see him do both since Crusade had far less arc in it than B5 I think that it could be finished of in at most 1 more season if JMS refined the story a bit. To finish of the story and not just leave it hanging.



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[MrgnPhnx]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DavidB:
However I would like to see him do both since Crusade had far less arc in it than B5 I think that it could be finished of in at most 1 more season if JMS refined the story a bit. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There's a large number of stories available in Crusade, IMHO.

Then again, JMS has said that Crusade had/has an arc to it, just not so rigorous a one as B5, so anything's possible.

les

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[Chris Springob]

quote:
--------------------------------------------
Actually he said that an apparent cure would be found in S2, which would turn out to be something very different from what EarthGov thought it was. The Exaclibur crew would discover this, but no one would believe them. So they would go renegade and that would begin the real heart of the story. The Drakh plague was never more than a Hitchcockian "McGuffin" in the story, which is why I don't understand why so many people seem fixated on it.
--------------------------------------------

Because that's as far as the story got. There's more material to talk about with the story that we actually saw then the one that we didn't. Also, it's the aspect of the Crusade story that seems most likely to affect the rest of the B5 universe.
Also, the fact that it wasn't meant to be the main focus of Crusade doesn't mean that it's uninteresting.
And finally, the fact that the cure "wouldn't have done what it was supposed to do" means that the plague might have continued to be part of the Crusade story even after season 2.

quote:
--------------------------------------------
Actually, JMS has said that he intended Babylon 5 to be _All_ of the above. There are Babylon 5 comics. There are Babylon 5 Novels. And the TV show is what ties them all together. To experience the show(s) the way JMS intended, you have to read and watch them All.
--------------------------------------------

I don't know if I'd put it like that. I think JMS intended for the audience to be able to get most of the experience from just the TV show. I've read several of the novels, and I wouldn't say that the show is incomplete without them.


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[drakh]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DavidB:
However I would like to see him do both since Crusade had far less arc in it than B5 I think that it could be finished of in at most 1 more season if JMS refined the story a bit.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Just like B5 could be finished by having Sinclair discover his missing 24 hours were just part of a Minbari plot to assassinate the president.

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>There are Babylon 5 Novels. And the TV show is what ties them all together. To experience the show(s) the way JMS intended, you have to read and watch them All.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think that to experience Babylon 5 "as JMS intended", you have to watch the series. Period. The others are supplements for those who want to pursue them. It would be terribly unfair for the producer of any television series to arrange things in such a way that you had to buy a book, or a comic book or go see a movie in order to experience the whole story. That's why movies made from series that are still in production (like The X-Files) never resolve major plot threads or introduce major changes. Not everyone who watches a show can afford to go to the movies or buy books, or has time to do so.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>However I would like to see him do both since Crusade had far less arc in it than B5 I think that it could be finished of in at most 1 more season if JMS refined the story a bit. To finish of the story and not just leave it hanging.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Two things: 1) JMS doesn't make these decisions. He can't do anything unless there is a network to foot the bills. 2) Television doesn't work like this. Nobody has ever deliberately done one season of anything. It would be economic suicide. In order to make money off a show you need to be able to repeatedly resell it to local stations via syndication or a cable network.

There have to be enough episodes for the broadcasters to run it 5 days a week without having to repeat episodes too often. (Otherwise the show "burns out" quickly and ratings drop off.)

The rule of thumb, since the days of the original Star Trek has been that you need five years worth of shows, or something over 100 episodes. (Do you think Gene Rodennberry picked the "five year mission" or JMS developed the five year arc by accident?) Niche networks like Sci-Fi have given studios the rare chance to pick-up a little extra money by actually selling reruns of short-lived shows, but that one network isn't a big enough "market" for people to be able to count on making any additional money off a series with less than 100 episodes.

Sci-Fi is not going to sign a contract to air a single season of a new show that it has to pay full price for. Warner Bros. is not going to spend something in excess of 22 million dollars on a show that it knows it will have a hard time reselling. Nor are actors going to sign up for one year. A big whole reason actors do TV series in the first place is for the novel experience of having a steady paycheck and not having to face the constant merry-go-round of script reading and auditions.

If anyone were going to go to the time, trouble and expense of putting Crusade back on the air for one year, they would be doing it as a continuing series. There is no storytelling reason to do otherwise from JMS's point of view, and there is no economic reason to do it from anyone else's point of view.

You might be able to make a case for a mini-series or a TV movie (although I doubt it, since as I indicated JMS hadn't even started telling the story he had in mind), but if it is going to be a real series they are either going to complete S1 and move on, or leave S1 at 11 to 13 episodes (as happens with many series that start as mid-season replacements) and continue with another 4 seasons, perhaps with a couple of extra episodes per season to kick up the total number.

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net

 

[bakana]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> I think that to experience Babylon 5 "as JMS intended", you have to watch the series. Period. The others are supplements for those who want to pursue them. It would be terribly unfair for the producer of any television series to arrange things in such a way that you had to buy a book, or a comic book or go see a movie in order to experience the whole story. That's why movies made from series that are still in production (like The X-Files) never resolve major plot threads or introduce major changes. Not everyone who watches a show can afford to go to the movies or buy books, or has time to do so. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, when JMS was posting on a reguilar basis on Genie, HE said that the books and comics were intended to be a part of the whole.

While some of the earlier books were mostly unimportant filler, the later ones, beginning with "City of Sorrows" have Major information in them. The Psi Corps trilogy explains WHY Bester was a Tragic figure. Even though he was a class A SOB, he was Made that way by the corps. His life is revealed to be a major exercise in Irony in the Trilogy. It doesn't take away from the Show. It adds a whole new layer to Bester, though.

The one that deals with the Awakening of the Shadows adds a bit of interesting background to Morden. Like revealing WHY he agreed to work for the Shadows. It wasn't for money or power or any of the obvious reasons.

City Of Sorrow actually fits in perfectly with the Current part of the story, now that War Without End is showing. It covers Sinclair's life from the time he went to Minbar until WWE. And explains why he is so willing to go back 4 hundred years. It's not so he can fulfill his destiny as Valen. He's got a very Personal reason for going back.

And, to find out if he Succeeded in his personal quest, you also have to get the last set of Comics. (It still doesn't reveal Where or How or even IF he died.

)




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Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

I've read all the books you name (but not the one you didn't, The Shadow Within about Morden and the Icarus.) They're all worthwhile and they do fill out lots of details in the story.

But they aren't necessary. You can understand the story of Babylon 5 perfectly well without them. You'll miss some of the nuances, yes. But you're not missing anything integral to the story. Now, try to imagine if "War Without End Part 2" or "Severed Dreams" were never part of the series but only released in book form, or on the big screen, or as comic books. The TV audience would be pissed off and rightly so. They are integral to the main story of B5. The books and comic books aren't.

B5 wasn't about Bester, or Sinclair, or Londo, beyond what was seen on the small screen. It was ultimately about the people who passed through a place call Babylon 5 in a certain five-year period, who faced the threat of wars, the wars themselves and the aftermath, and who built a better society out of the ruins. It was about the work they did together, more than it was about their separate lives.

Did I enjoy reading about Bester and Londo, et. al. Sure. But those books didn't come out until long after the series was over, and while I enjoyed exploring other nooks and crannies of the B5 universe, I didn't feel that the show as in any way incomplete, or find myself thinking this should have been an episode. They are more like footnotes to B5 or the appendices to The Lord of the Rings than they are part of the main narrative. Nice to have, but in no way essential.

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net

 

[Jomar]

I'm going to stick my neck out here and will probably get clobbered but....I really don't understand the reason so many people want Crusade to be reincarnated. I watched it, and quite enjoyed it and I was looking forward to seeing more when it was cancelled. It wasn't on long enough for me to get attached to any of the characters or the actors and although I was a bit curious what would happen next I really never gave it much thought. I still don't care if I never see another episode.

Now that there is a chance of a new series based on the Rangers I am looking forward to it because I enjoy the work of JMS. He writes well and comes up with enough twists in the plot to keep me guessing. I will watch anything by JMS and if it should happen to be Crusade I would probably watch it but in the meantime I will be perfectly satisfied if Rangers becomes a series.

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[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jomar:
I'm going to stick my neck out here and will probably get clobbered but....I really don't understand the reason so many people want Crusade to be reincarnated.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you answered your own question when you said that you like jms' work. Understandable sentiment.

Speaking for myself, it'd be great to see what "Crusade" can do when jms doesn't have to work with kid gloves on. "Crusade" has a lot of promise.

From what I saw, it was going to raise some interesting and disturbing questions. How do we cope with adversity? What are we willing to do to achieve our goals? What kind of sacrifices are we willing to make? How far is too far? Ever notice how many deals with the devil there are in "Crusade"?

The series starts with a pervading sense of doom, and the Excalibur crew has to find ways to crawl out from under it without losing their souls. That to me sounds like a hell of a story. It'd be nice if jms got a fair shot at telling it. [shrug]

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Joe Medina (neargrai@aol.com)

"...that which are, we are"