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Obscure dialogue and hidden meanings


The die-hard B5 fans probably know what I am talking about here. This is a series that you can watch through once, and love it and get most of the good scenes and have a good understanding of the story. Watch it again, and suttle details you didnt catch the first time through come out. Then, there are some lines of dialogue that are so well hidden, that perhaps you don't catch them at all. This is what I am looking for in this post my friends. Lets list some VERY suttle dialogue, and what is meant by it, or its reference into the series. I will list 3 as examples, the first being the least suttle/buried, and the last being very well hidden:

1) Kosh to Sheridan in 'Hunter, Prey.' Sheridan gets pissed that Kosh asked to see him, goes on cryptically for a bit, then says that Sheridan doesnt understand and to leave. Sheridan gets mad and asks him why he called him here, and yells 'what do you want from me? what do you want?' Kosh replies angrily 'Never ask that question!'

Of course at the time, first seeing the series, you probably wouldnt get the reference, but 'What do you want' was Morden's, and thus, the Shadows question that embodies their philosophy and belief in Chaos. This scene was almost like Yoda warning Luke about going down the path of the Darkside of the force.

2) This one is almost the exact opposite of my point #1. It is in 'Z'Ha'Dum.' Sheridan gets lead into the room with Justin, Morden, and Anna. Justin tells him 'I believe you already know Mr Morden.' Justin then asks him to come in and sit down. Sheridan asks Justin 'Who are you?' twice. Justin (who hasnt told him his name yet) replies 'Well now, that isnt really important, is it?'

Some may take this to mean that Justin was telling Sheridan that his name isn't important --- which it probably isnt. Justin goes on with some cryptic answer, finally ending in that his name is Justin. The reason _I_ think that Dialogue was there was exactly the same thing as Kosh's response to Sheridan asking him 'what do you want?' Who are you is the Vorlon's question, and their embodiment of Order. Sheridan asked that question twice to Justin. Justin may have been saying that knowing who you are isnt important, only getting what you want is. That 'WHO ARE YOU' isnt important. This would fit perfectly with Shadow philosophy.

3) The movie 'In The Begining.' Near the end of the movie the Minbari Coplann comes to give Delenn a final status of the War, before they make their final push. That she should be there for the glorious end to their holy war. She replies something to the effect of 'How much glory is left in this war now' Coplann replies 'Not as much as In the Begining' which is also the title of this movie.

I had always thought and assumed that 'In the Begining' was named as such, because it was about the begining of the Babylon 5 story --- which it is. But I think there was another purpose to the name, and that line reflects it. The line represents the Minbari admitting that there was more 'glory' to the cause of their war when it started, than there was when it was about to end. At the begining of it, it seemed as if it was a holy war, by the end all were tired of it, but it had taken a life of its own. Also all throughout the movie, Delenn grows tired of it more and more, even though she was the one who acted out of rage and started it. I think that reflection on the nature of war was one of the main reasons the movie was titled as such, and also was why that line was put in there. It is not thought of as a key line, but I think it was pretty important to the story.

Ok people, what obscure lines can you guys list and what their hidden meanings may be?

'I don't believe in the no-win scenario' - JTK
Two words: weapon supplies.

"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."
How about from "The Gathering" when Kosh refers to, what he thinks is Sinclair, as Valen. He even goes as far as to stick his hand out of his encounter suit to shake his hand. I mean seeing the pilot before seeing the series,no one would ever understand the meaning of this. I never saw "The Gathering" until I had already seen the series and it blew my mind that this was in there.

AFAIK the Entil'Zha bit was not in the original version of the Gathering so those of us who saw the original cut couldn't possibly get that piece of foreshadowing.

But it's a neat thing to have in the new version.

I still don't think anything could beat the "No one here is exactly what he appears" line in Mind War.

Of course, it's the kind of line that screams out "foreshadowing! important!" but it's also such a simple one that it's easy to forget it soon afterwards, especially as everyone referred to (Sinclair, Delenn, Londo, G'Kar himself) carry on more or less the same for quite a bit after that episode.

"There are things out there beyond imagination, and I have a rather healthy imagination." - G'Kar, B5: Rangers
Kribu's Lounge | kribu@ranger.b5lr.com | Kribu.net
[Kosh] You have always been here [\Kosh]

I'm still convinced Kosh was on crack everytime he said that

We're all born as molecules in the hearts of a billion stars, molecules that do not understand politics, policies and differences. In a billion years we, foolish molecules forget who we are and where we came from. Desperate acts of ego. We give ourselves names, fight over lines on maps. And pretend our light is better than everyone else's. The flame reminds us of the piece of those stars that live inside us. A spark that tells us: you should know better. The flame also reminds us that life is precious, as each flame is unique. When it goes out, it's gone forever. And there will never be another quite like it
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> "A poem: a story in meter or rhyme."
"Ahh. 'There once was a man from Nantucket..'"
"You've been talking to Mr. Garibaldi again, haven't you?"

Delenn and Sinclair in Babylon 5:"The Gathering" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;

The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of "Spiritus Mundi"
Troubles my sight: somewhere in the sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indigent desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

G'Kar to Na'Toth, Revelations

Quoted sections are shown in italics.
The poem is 'The Second Coming' by William Butler Yeats.

Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."

[This message has been edited by bakana (edited February 10, 2002).]
quality of mercy has a bunch of em.

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>
The woman with the healing machine was addicted to stims and was disbarred

she also gives of herself to heal others (sound familiar?)

talia talking to garibaldi about her scanning of the convict "things that live inside us Mr. Garibaldi, terrible things."

Lennier lies to save face for another.. which comes up again in the 2nd season

I was watching the episode "And the Sky Full of Stars" with my girlfriend and heard a line that I had forgotten about. At the end of the episode, Knight 2 (one of the people holding Sinclair) lost his memory. When Sinclair approached him, he said he didn't remember anything. When he was being escorted to the ship, he turned back and said something to the effect: This voice in my head tells me that maybe we are all still inside.

Was this foreshadowing or a thread that could only survived if Sinclair had stayed or as usual, am I reading too much into this.

Here's few...

Soul Hunter wondered how Delenn would do such thing or even plan it. Of course the thing was the process we saw in Chrysalis.

Soul Hunter said to Sinclair that they are using him. He knew that Sinclair is actually Valen.


Things change... long time gone by.
How about Walker Smith's warning at the opening and the closing of the episode "TKO" for Garibaldi to watch his back?


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by joev5638:
How about Walker Smith's warning at the opening and the closing of the episode "TKO" for Garibaldi to watch his back?



That was some good forshadowing as well. I just remembered another one from 'In The Begining.' It isn't forshadowing, just well written dialogue.

Londo tells the little boy that he is going to let him be Emperor for 5min, and that he will let him make one command. So Londo says 'Go ahead, what do you want?' The boy answers: 'tell me a story!' Senna, the nanny scolds him for making such a request, but Londo says 'No, its alright, he did far better with that question than I did.'

Obviously thats a reference to 'Signs and Portents and to Londo's answer to the Shadows (Morden) question that started the whole saga. A well hidden reference to a key point of the series.

'I don't believe in the no-win scenario' - JTK
Whenever you see oranges,the actual fruit most times, that means the episode is directed by Janet Greek. This was kind of her trademark although she did not direct "The Geometry of Shadows". This is not a contradiction since it was a blossom and not the fruit.

"I was free to wallow in my own crapulence." -Mr. Burns in "Who Shot Mr. Burns Part Two"
There's an episode in season 1, not sure which one. The scene opens with Garibaldi reading a newspaper. The camera starts with a close up with him and the newspaper, but only for half a second before it backs up to get the whole room as someone walks into his office. But, if you look closely one of the headlines in the paper is something to the effect of "Vice President Clark may have links to Psi Corp Scandal" Neat little thing for all the way back in the first season.

I might be reading too much into this since what this refers back to was a b5 book (To Dream in the City of Sorrows) But in the ep where sheridan is on his way to jupiter (i think) to destroy the shadow ship that Earth Force is toying with Ivonava asks Marcus how he fits into all this. Towards the end of the ep he brings in a poster and starts to explain (using pictures) how he fits into the big picture. If you've read the book then you know how Marcus came to be a member of the rangers, because of his brother. Then we later see that he fits into the picture by saving Ivonava by using the healing device. Like i said, maybe i'm just on crack and seeing things that aren't really there but it seems right to me.

Jerome Easter

I am a Ranger. We walk in the dark places no others will enter. We stand on the bridge and no one may pass. We live for the One. We die for the one.
^ I knew that bit about his brother, and I've never read the books, so it must be on screen somewhere.

There were a few lines in the show about Marcus brother being the reason he joined the Rangers.

It's explained in Detail in the book.

Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."
In season 1, Garibaldi reads the sports section of his paper, and exclaims: "Lousy Dodgers!". In SiL, Garibldi is reading the news and exclaims: "Lousy Dodgers!"
Did the Dodgers win a single game in these 25 years?

never surrender, never give up
God, I need a better tag line
I'm in the process of rewatching all the B5 episodes with a friend who is new to the show. (BTW, we're through 25 episodes now and he loves it) One of the things I noticed is the fascination with oranges. For instance, when Sheridan first arrives on B5 he is amazed by the availability of fresh orange juice. And when Elric gives Sheridan an orange blossum. What keeps running through my mind is the fascination Mr Edgars will have with orange juice in the future.....

What do you want, you moon-faced assassin of joy?
Another one I noticed while re-watching with my friend was the opening scene in "Quality of Mercy". It seemed unlikely to be just coincidence that the very first character we see in the first scene of this episode was Ivanova, considering her eventual "involvement" with the healing device first seen in this episode.

What do you want, you moon-faced assassin of joy?

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