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Matrix Revolutions


Beyond the rim
Is anyone hanging out to see the third Matrix flick next week, or has Reloaded squashed everyone's enthusiasm?

I must admit to waiting with baited breath, but I wasn't put off by Reloaded. Though I must admit that you need to see Reloaded at least twice to start to really 'get it'.
What was it that annoyed you the most about it - was the the pseudo-philosophical dialogue that stopped the movie? I know that it bugged my friend who went to see it with me.
Bought tickets for Wednesday, reserving seemed like a cool idea yesterday when i went to watch another movie. I'm thinking about giving them away, though.
Hell yeah! :D

Its true Reloaded had too much philosophical babble, but don't tell me the chase scene didn't kick some major ass. :cool:
This thread makes it seem like everyone hated the last Matrix movie, but that just ain't true. It's still probably the biggest cinematic franchise around (maybe LOTR is bigger).

I'm not a huge fan, but the look and action of the movies is a blast and definitely a fun movie-going time. Yeah, the absurd plot and awful monologues suck, but I've come to take it as just part of the fun.

I will buy the DVDs and fast forward to the fighting. :)
There were only 2 parts of the movie where there was the philosophical "babble." When I saw the movie in theaters it seemed to really slow down the movie and make everyone snicker at all the talk. Then about an hour after the movie ended, I "got" the 2 parts of dialogue and understood what it meant and how it fit into the story. The second time watching Reloaded, I had a completely different feel to those 2 scenes.

OK maybe they could have been presented better, but those 2 parts of dialogue are very much what the entire story is about, and are crucial.

To anyone who has read the book series "Left Behind" or seen the made-for-TV miniseries of the same name, do you notice a lot of common themes between that and what the Matrix is about?

That is why I like this series of movies. They have the best action and FX around, and do have a pretty deep back-story to them.
I agree that the philosophical scenes were needed for the understanding of the story, but they were just too long and, as you said, it slowed the movie down.
I will buy the DVDs and fast forward to the fighting.
But even those sucked balls. There was nothing new this time around. It was the same old stuff and none of the fights were really all that different from each other (with the exception of 100 Agent Smith). I was actually bored to death by the fight scenes
I loved the Smith fight and the highway chase, but the straight wire-fu fights featuring (Neo vs. Seraph and Neo vs. Merovingian's henchmen) were pretty boring and useless.

Overall, I liked Reloaded and have already watched it a few times on DVD, but it is definitely not the streamlined film the Matrix was. Reloaded is more uneven, with some very high points and some exceedingly low points that, for the most part, manage to balance out in the end.


From what I've read so far, Revolutions will be light on story, HUGE on action - to the point where some have said that Neo, Morpheus and Trinity become guest stars in their own movie. The effects are said to be absolutely brilliant.

I've heard good things said about the new Oracle, played by Mary Alice, although to me she seems *extremely* bland after the playful delivery of the late Gloria Foster, who played the Oracle in the first two films. I would equate her to Mary Kay Adams' Na'Toth.

Also, film veteran villain extraordinaire Anthony Zerbe, who played Councillor Hamann, also died last year. I don't know if his character, had any part to play in Revolutions, but I would assume it has been shifted to someone else. It's a shame; his scene was perhaps one of the most "human" moments in "Reloaded".
I'd have thought that of all Sci Fi fans, the B5 group would be the one who would most appreciate storylines. I loved Reloaded and not once minded the story 'getting in the way' of the eye candy. In fact I enjoyed the fact that a film with such a strong action bent still had time for a complex tale to be told.
Well, the story still has to be good. Most folks have found the dialogue and philosophy of Reloaded to be pretentious and bloated.

But on the positive, JMS liked Revolutions, and I put some faith in his opinion.

From JMSNews:

Just to let fans of the Matrix know...you've got nothing to worry about with the third film. I was at the premiere screening Monday, and I have to tell you that the sheer scale and scope of the thing, the performances, the efx, the story...it's just staggering.
Anyway...the brothers W did an amazing job. It's going to be huge.

That's good to know about Revolutions. Makes me even keener to see it.

I admit I liked Reloaded a lot - the philosophical subtext was quite interesting, even if the dialogue was couched in terms that made it difficult to follow.
As little importance as this is, I'll just clear up my opinions on story vs action in the Matrices.

Of course I love good story. I think the Matrix comes from a cool place in idea as well as setting up a good stylistic setting for the action. The thing is that some of its story execution is awkward. Much of the dialogue sounds like it was written by a high school kid who thinks he is smarter than he is. "There is no spoon," that sort of thing. It takes the surface elements of Christian mythology and Hindu mysticism but does nothing with them except reference them. I'm not even looking for "original" ideas, but if this seems like a collage of different superficial philosophies that have nothing to do with each other.

The twists and turns of the story were delivered awkwardly and seemingly without rhyme or reason. Neo is the saviour. No, he's not. Wait, maybe he is, but not the real one, or the first one, or whatever. There were 6. The world is a giant cube. The same person created the Matrix and is the Matrix. Or some such. I'm sure the third movie will have even more stunning realisations for our characters, like Neo is a machine, or The Machine, or he is the Matrix himself. Yes, that's it, he's the Matrix, and all of Creation is just his dream. 'Cause, like, dude, what if we're really all just a some guy's dream, ya know, and one day he'll wake up and we'll no longer exist! Man, this is some good shit- yo I told you, bro, my cousin is hooked up!

And, yes, the dialogue in the second matrix, especially by the architect guy- wow. I couldn't stop laughing. But it was good, because as they tried to ratchet up the "meaning" of the story, it made me pretty much stop trying to look at the movie that way and just treat it as eye candy and stylistic excess, like a Quentin Tarantino or Bruce Lee flick, and then I could enjoy it.

In fact, Matrices and Kill Bill occupy the same space in my movie-brain: stylistically wild, shamelessly over-the-top, silly, fun, and cool for the sake of cool. And there's nothing wrong with that- I can't wait for Revolutions and Kill Bill vol 2. But I could never take it as a serious dramatic film.

I, too, like the first Oracle (that is the middle-aged black woman, right?). Why isn't she back?

As for the action, I think demanding something "new" is unfair. The fact that the franchise pretty much redifined the cinematic action aesthetic for this generation is enough of an accomplishment. To change it would take away from the Matrix's unique style. Yes, the second one was different in scope and approach, but it still feels right.
Yes she did ... hence her being referred to earlier in this thread as the late Gloria Foster!

Personally, I'm reserving judgement on Reloaded until I have seen Revolutions, given that so much has been made of the two being effectively one movie in two parts, rather than two separate movies.

As I recall, I really quite enjoyed Reloaded at the time, but certainly want to have a second watch before hitting the flicks to see Revolutions.

And as for their being nothing new in Reloaded over the original, well two things spring to mind.

Firstly, this is the world in which they "live" - so there needs to be a level of consistency in the style of the two movies. Let's be honest, what could realistically change that much in the style of the fight/action sequences, particularly if the ultimate goal of the Wachowski borthers is that the three films should stand together when watched back to back.

Plus in addition to the 100 (or whatever) Agent Smiths, Neo can fly in Reloaded, which some would consider a fairly life-changing experience.

Second, how much is our view of these action sequences influenced by the fact that the revolutionary techniques introduced in the original are now commonplace in goodness knows howmany other movies?

As always, action (and FX) should serve the story, not the other way round. On that score, I am happy so far and looking forward to the conclusion.

If it matters to anyone, I firmly think they got most of the dialogue stuff out of the way in the second one. While it seemed really forced in there, and slowed things down, they pretty said what they needed to say to put an end to the "Prophecy" and the whole "One" thing. That story is now done and over with and we know it was BS created by the Architect. Now for the last movie the characters are left with their backs against a wall, no prophecy to save them, and the story is they must fight or die. I have a feeling there will be a LOT less complex dialogue as they used it when needed in #2, and Revolutions will be one hell of a fight to the finish to end the story.