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Lochley, How did they know?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by drakh:
Wrong. Deconstruction of Falling Stars was finished by July 6th 1997.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I assume you mean that the script was finished at that time. Not that the episode had been filmed.


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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>It was the fact that in spite of her constant assurances that she was in for the 5th season, Variety was anouncing that she was out looking for work elsewhere.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The trade publications stories broke over the weekend before the Monday deadline - which had been established much earlier (for all the cast members, not just Claudia.) I also misunderstood your reference to "Deconstruction" being completed in July to mean filming rather than writing, so sorry if I seemed to be jumping on you for something you didn't say. Obviously the script would have been rewritten after Claudia's departure, so the fact that it existed in some form is neither here nor there with respect to the question of whether JMS was in some way already planning to get rid of Ivanova, which seems to have been the point of contention.

The voice over in "Rising Star" indicated that Susan Ivanova had been promoted to Captain and offered command of either B5 or a Warlock-class destroyer, but that she hadn't made up her mind yet. The decision would have either been shown in 501 or elided if there were no S5 and we went straight to "SiL." The line was later re-recorded to have her go with the destroyer.



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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division

joseph-demartino@att.net
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino:
The trade publications stories broke over the weekend before the Monday deadline<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>They came out on July 9th 1997, which was a Wednesday. The deadline was July 11th 1997 - a Friday. During the weekend, several of the cast tried to convince her to contact WB on the following Monday to try to patch things up, but that was completly "unofficial". <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>which had been established much earlier (for all the cast members, not just Claudia.)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>All the other actors were under contract, having signed an extension in June. Jms' posts make it perfectly clear that the July 11th deadline was set spesifically for her, because pre-production on the season had already started, and they needed to know immideatly if she really was out, so they'd have time to create and cast a new character.

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"When a spark goes online, there's great joy --
When one's extinguished, the universe weeps." (audio)
-- Rhinox, "The Spark", Beast Wars

drakh@spamcop.net
 
I would like to sumarize the discusion and correct me if I am wrong.

- They shot Rising Star
- Then SiL
- Then Thirdspace
- Then ItB (End of production of season 4)
- JMS wrote DoFS (July, 6th)
- CC is of the show (July, 11th)
- Later JMS is forced to change DoFS and to change lines in Rising Star.

Am I right?



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I believe you have it surrounded!

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"Draal gave Zathras list of things not to say.
This was one. No.... *tsk tsk*
No. Not good.
Not supposed to mention... "one", or... THE one.
Hmmmm.
You never heard that."
 
Sorry if I'm screwing up this discussion, as I don't have the patience to wade through these humungous posts, but I always thought that Christian was off the show before JMS wrote Deconstruction. In fact, that was part of the reason he wrote it in the first place. Sleeping In Light was going to be broadcast at the end of season 4 when they thought there wouldn't be a season 5.

When TNT saved the show at the last minute, the full 22 episodes for season 4, including Sleeping in Light, were filmed. However, SiL had to be at the end of the whole series. So JMS wrote Deconstruction to fill the gap at the end of season 4, labeling it episode 501 (meaning first episode of season 5), only because SiL was named 422.

In all this mess, Christian didn't come back for more B5. This why she does not appear in Deconstruction. Also, they had to change the one line in Rising Star about her being the captain of a ship instead of B5.

My brain hurts.

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino:
2) Early in S4 TNT agreed to buy the four seasons of reruns, which Warner Bros. was now in a position to offer as a block, since they were sure the series was over.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I've corrected you on this more than a few times... You should remember it by now. TNT secured the reruns of B5 in 1995. IIRC, the deal was that they'd get the reruns at the end of B5's first run, provided there were at least 66 episodes produced. It's all there on jmsnews.com, if you look up posts from 1995 containing "TNT". <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>3) TNT later decided to add a couple of original TV movies to make its early evening B5 reruns more of an "event."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Nope. This was decided early into S4. Look for a jms post describing "something exciting going on with TNT" around August 1996. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>In the Beginning (which allowed JMS to trim "Atonement" from a two-parter to a single episode, since part of the story would be covered in the movie.)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>It was a three-parter, with two of them becoming In the Begining. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>(BTW, he was still very much working on the shape of S5 during the con in Blackpool. He lost his only copy of the original hand-written S5 outline when the housekeeping staff in his hotel threw it away that weekend.)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I think those notes were more the "detailed episode plot breakdown" he described doing before each season all the way back in the post where he anounced Michael O'Hare's departure.

------------------
"When a spark goes online, there's great joy --
When one's extinguished, the universe weeps." (audio)
-- Rhinox, "The Spark", Beast Wars

drakh@spamcop.net
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>I always thought that Christian was off the show before JMS wrote Deconstruction. In fact, that was part of the reason he wrote it in the first place. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not quite. We're talking about a couple of different issues here, although they are related.

1) At the start of S4 it was pretty much certain that there would be no S5. PTEN was in the process of shutting down and Warner Bros. wasn't having any luck placing B5 with another network. JMS therefore pulled several stand-alone shows from early in S4, allowing him to wrap up the main story threads in 4 seasons, skipping over other story lines and ending with "SiL" rather than the planned S4 cliff-hanger, "Intersections in Realtime."

2) Early in S4 TNT agreed to buy the four seasons of reruns, which Warner Bros. was now in a position to offer as a block, since they were sure the series was over.

3) TNT later decided to add a couple of original TV movies to make its early evening B5 reruns more of an "event." They commissioned Thirdspace and In the Beginning (which allowed JMS to trim "Atonement" from a two-parter to a single episode, since part of the story would be covered in the movie.) A bit later than that they agreed to finance the re-edit, new F/X and new score for The Gathering.

4) Thirdspace was the first TV movie shot because it took place on Babylon 5, and could be shot on the still-standing sets. These were then struck and stored while In the Beginning was filmed. They were stored, rather than destroyed, because TNT was impressed by the Thirdspace dailies and started negotiations with Warner Bros. about S5.

5) The actors (except Claudia) signed an extension of their exisitng S4 contracts while the negotiations were going on. These were not the final contracts for S5 - new contracts had to be signed for S5 because the move to TNT was a move from first-run syndication to first-run basic cable.

The basic Screen Actor's Guild contract treats network, syndication and basic cable differently, so the PTEN contracts would not apply to the TNT deal. But new contracts could not be issued until TNT and WB came to terms about producing the series. A deadline was established for the cast members to sign the new contracts, based on the proposed start of production. Once TNT and WB made their deal, the various actors signed new contracts for S5 over the summer, with Claudia Christian being the last unsigned cast member by the time most of the cast was in the U.K. for an SF convention in Blackpool England.

6) It was after the TNT/WB deal was made that JMS outlined S5 and started writing scripts, including "Deconstruction." Now that S5 was a certainty he needed something to replace "SiL" as the S4 finale, and he needed to get it done quickly because S4 had not yet finished airing in the U.S. He wanted to get 501 shot in time to substitute it for 422, scheduled to air in the fall on the remaining PTEN stations.

(BTW, he was still very much working on the shape of S5 during the con in Blackpool. He lost his only copy of the original hand-written S5 outline when the housekeeping staff in his hotel threw it away that weekend.)

At this point the show lost Claudia, and JMS had to rewrite several existing or partially written scripts, as well as "adjust" the overall S5 arc - with way too little time before cameras rolled. I think these last minute changes, and the loss of the dramatic "Ivanova latent telepath" arc substantially weakened S5.

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division

joseph-demartino@att.net
 
Joseph, drakh: I don't understand that thing about ItB and Atonement. Did JMS want to create three-parter episode about events in Earth/Minbari war?

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MOmega:
Did JMS want to create three-parter episode about events in Earth/Minbari war?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes. When TNT ordered the movies, he took two of the episodes and turned them into In The Beginning.



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"When a spark goes online, there's great joy --
When one's extinguished, the universe weeps." (audio)
-- Rhinox, "The Spark", Beast Wars

drakh@spamcop.net
 
drakh: do you know something more e.g. detailed storyline, about that possible three-parter episode? Or can we say that ItB is more or less the same as that planned three-parter?

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Here's what jms said on the matter: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>First came the word of the two B5 TV movies for TNT, which were envisioned as taking place within the arc of our main story. Suddenly I had 4 hours into which I could slide some of this material. One sub-thread I'd been planning on was a 3-episode arc that would look at how the Earth/Minbari War started, and Delenn's situation at the start of the war, joining the Council, that sort of thing. Now I was able to split that out. So in the series I can, in an episode, get into Delenn's role in the war and go into the background of how she got to know Dukhat, how she got into the Grey Council, and so on...all the stuff you'd need to see prior to the war. Then the two hours covering the rest, the progress of the war itself, could be covered in the two-hour movie.

With the *benefit* that we'd have a little more money for the movie than we would for two conventional hours, so we could do *more* in the way of EFX, production value, and so on, which you're going to need to really sell the E/M war. So strangely enough, and as tends to happen, this has put us in the position of doing it *better* than if I'd dropped it into two standard-budget episodes, as was my original plan.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

------------------
"When a spark goes online, there's great joy --
When one's extinguished, the universe weeps." (audio)
-- Rhinox, "The Spark", Beast Wars

drakh@spamcop.net

[This message has been edited by drakh (edited November 29, 2001).]
 

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