Let's Get Real Here

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Let\'s Get Real Here

There's no way Crusade is coming back. People who watched that show and were all gung-ho about ratings were wasting their time. It ain't coming back ... ever.

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[**DONOTDELETE**]

Re: Let\'s Get Real Here

Certainly, it won't come back as a series, but it might come back as a telefilm. Maybe even some castmembers will show up in the new series, sometimes...

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And I tell you one thing, if the primates that we came from, had known that someday politicians would come out of the gene pool, they would have stayed up in the trees and written evolution of as a bad idea.
(John Sheridan, A Distant Star)

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

Re: Let\'s Get Real Here

Wow, you mean you just passed the Bar and you've already landed a job at Warner Bros., The Sci-Fi Channel or Babylonian Productions?

Because if you haven't you're just posting an opinion, same as the folks rooting for the show's return. One is no more "real" the other. The difference is that most of them have offered at least some reason for believing as they do. You just make an unsupported assertion.

Right now, I'd say the odds are as good as 50/50 that the show will return in some form, much higher than at any time since Sci-Fi tried to pick the show up in 1999. That's my opinion, based on the public record, JMS's posts and the little bit I've learned about television production in 30 or so years in fandom.

Sci-Fi is doing poorly with several of its first-run series, while B5 and Crusade are out-performing them. JMS has already said that Sci-Fi's interest in Rangers does not affect their interest in Crusade - which would seem to indicate that there is some interest.

Sci-Fi is ambitious to add more nights of original programming. Two series in the B5 universe would be a good bet for them, just as many local stations bought both ST: TNG and DS9. Like the Trek shows, B5 has a built-in audience - modest by Trek standards, to be sure, but more than adequate when compared to other Sci-Fi series.

The B5 shows could be produced more cheaply than two unrelated shows. Sets, props and costumes could be used interchangeably, as could production staff and crew.

Sci-Fi could complete Crusade season one and see how the revamped show does for a fraction of the cost of producing a full season if they use all or most of the original 13 episodes.

None of the Crusade regulars except for Marjean Holden and David Allen Brooks are signed to other long-term projects. Marjean is doing Beastmaster in New Zeeland, so she's clearly out of the picture. But Brooks is doing a soap opera in New York, and soap contracts are famously easy to get out of.

All of the regulars except for Gary Cole have recently indicated an interest in coming back. Cole hasn't said anything publicly about the series is quite some time, that I've been able to find. But the last time he did address the question, he said he'd be happy to return as Gideon.

Some of the old Crusade material, sets, costumes, etc., in storage since 1999, has reportedly already been shipped to Vancouver for the Rangers pilot film.

I'd say that all of this adds up to a reasonable possibility that Sci-Fi might take another stab at Crusade.

You've reached the opposite conclusion. I'm curious to know what led you to it.

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Re: Let\'s Get Real Here

There has to be at least a possibility...SCI-FI has been trying to get the rights to this show for years and the fact is that it's good TV and great sci-fi. I'm no marketing genius but it seems to me like Sci-Fi has been gradually changing from a network running just reruns of old scifi to a network that is producing its own shows (Farscape, The Invisible Man, Outer Limits) and experiencing a lot of success with it. Given the ratings Crusade is getting right now there's no reason to assume that new shows running once a week in a primetime slot wouldn't do just as well as any of the others shows they produce, if not better. B5 has been turning into a fairly major franchise and having TWO B5 shows (Crusade and Legend) could only be a cash cow for them.
I think the main question lies with getting the cast back together, and specifically Gary Cole. It'd be hard for me to watch Crusade without him.

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Understanding is a three-edged sword.

 

[AntonyF]

Re: Let\'s Get Real Here

Wow, thanks JMS for coming in and telling us. Or are you just presuming to tell us, because you must be right and everyone else is wrong?

Let us not forget, the troubles were with TNT, and that's out of the equation now.

I've noticed JMS does avoid saying it won't come back ever.

And of course Joseph DeMartino gives us all the evidence to prove all this.

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<font size="-2" color="silver">"The Babylon Project was our last, best, hope for peace.
A self-contained world five miles long, located in neutral
territory. A place of commerce and diplomacy for a quarter
of a million humans and aliens. A shining beacon in space,
all alone in the night. It was the dawn of the third age of
mankind, the year the great war came upon us all. This is
the story of the last of the Babylon stations. The year is
2259: the name of the place is Babylon 5."

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Re: Let\'s Get Real Here

Here's something that I found interesting today at scifi.com on their events page:

J. Michael Straczynski's Crusade is a great example of a show that was saved by the fans: its stormy life at TNT is the subject of many Web pages.

Now SCI FI has picked up Crusade, and the future promises to be veeerrryyy interesting. Tune in to Crusade, and stay tuned.

To me that says:Hey if enough of you watch this we might bring it back.

Plus like mentioned above JMS has seemingly been avoiding ever saying "Crusade is dead"

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"I'd like to live just long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price. I'd look up at your lifeless eyes and wave like this. Can you and your associates arrange it for me, Mr. Morden?"
Vir - In The Shadow of Z' HA Dum

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Re: Let\'s Get Real Here

Thanks, Joe DeMartino. I couldn't have said it better, myself.

Let me put it simply. Sci-Fi had certain expectations for the ratings of the B5 re-runs. When the B5 re-runs aired they exceeded those expectations, and as a result we've got Legend of the Rangers.

Sci-Fi had certain expectations for the ratings for the Crusade re-runs. When the Crusade re-runs aired they exceeded those expectations, as JMS has been telling us. If we were to follow the previous pattern, then that means that we'll be getting Crusade just like we got Rangers. And unlike Rangers, Crusade would be a much cheaper show to produce as many of the sets are already built, they've pretty much got a cast in place, etc. Crusade's currently in a better position than Rangers.

And let's not forget that the B5 and Crusade re-runs have, at times, exceeded the ratings of some of Sci-Fi's prime time shows. If re-runs could do that, how much moreso all-new episodes? Crusade is far from dead.

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[Citizen V]

Re: Let\'s Get Real Here

I'd love to see Crusade come back as a series, mostly because the plot threads that have been set up are way too complicated to be resolved in a series of movies.

That said, it wouldn't be the same if JMS weren't committed to writing at least most of the episodes. With his workload, that seems awfully unlikely unless his other new series falls to catch on--which I am not selfish enough to hope for. (But I'm close, darn it.

)

I think it is most likely that the Drahk War will be dealt with in einer The ranger's series or another novel trilogy. I wouldn't be upset with either of those choices.

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[Citizen V]

Re: Let\'s Get Real Here

One thing did strike me as fishy, and that is that JMS's interview the other day said he might have his production crew go from one show to the other to save time.

I could be wrong, but that would tend to imply that both B5LoR and his new show could be similar in style and feel.

I highly doubt he's planning to do Crusade again--especially that quick--but who knows.

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[This message has been edited by Citizen V (edited April 27, 2001).]

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

Re: Let\'s Get Real Here

I don't think the workload is that much of an issue. He had planned to write about half of the first season of Crusade, maybe less, and once the show was established may have written even less in subsequent years (especially if he put together a staff of writers.) As long as he's overseeing all the scripts and making sure the tone stays consistent, I can't see any reason he couldn't executive produce a couple of shows and still maintain both the quality and his health.

Since Crusade was planned to have a "less rigorous" arc than B5, he wouldn't find himself in the position he did on S3 through S5, of writing nearly everything because he was first trying to end the show in four years if necessary, then scrambling to go with the planned fifth year but without a major character whose fifth year arc he had been setting up since season one.

Lots of producers have had multiple shows on at once. Norman Lear had five or six sitcoms all going at one point. Dick Wolf will have three Law & Order shows on next year. David Kelly and Stephen Bocchco have each juggled several series simultaneously. Absent writing ever script himself, overseeing every detail of the production and battling with the network for the soul of his show, I don't really see doing two shows at once as being a problem.

However, I wouldn't read too much into his "using the same crew for" two projects. The other may be his Jeremiah series for Showtime, or even The World on Fire, which he and Chris Carter nearly sold to CBS in 1999. Film and TV crews are professionals who move from job to job and are used to working on all kinds of projects. A cameraman doesn't care if he's working on a SF show or a medical drama - his job is exactly the same. If anything costumers, maekup people and props guys on an SF show would probably find it easier to do a non-genre show.

We'll just have to wait and see - as we usually do with JMS.

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division

 

[WhiteStar12]

Re: Let\'s Get Real Here

Hi all

Something that we need to remember.

The Original Star Trek had a very limited time on-air in its original hey-day. And very little following. It never got higher than 50th in ratings, had 3 seasons and 3 times exec's tried to cancel it.

But as time wore on look what has happened! Many spin-off's and many $$$$. Plus the originals are being re-run time and time again.

Even though I'm in Australia and don't get the SciFi Channel - I don't expect they are stupid. They can see the $$$$ that can be generated from a successful formula. They may even see it relatively soon considering it took the TV executives 18 years or so to recognise making other Star Trek/s (and movies) viable.

I wouldn't discount some form of renewal of Crusade...

That's my 2 cents worth, now to the weather...

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IHHBHG
Live Well.
WhiteStar12

[This message has been edited by WhiteStar12 (edited April 28, 2001).]

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Re: Let\'s Get Real Here

I have to admit, that while i've been hoping that Crusade would come back, i've never really belived that it would be possible, mainly due to the fact it seemed unlikely the'd be able to get the cast back together. But thanks to Joseph DeMartino's post, i'm feeling a lot more optimistic. You make a very convincing case, and i plan to believe that it's possible it will come back until i hear an empahatic NO from JMS himself!

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No thing i do don't do no thing but bring me more to do

 

[WombatControl]

Re: Let\'s Get Real Here

Yes, Crusade can come back, but it's not very likely.

The workload for JMS would be horrendous - while it would be possible for him to do Crusade, Rangers, TWCBN, and whatever else he's up to, it would be a lot for one person. He'd certainly have to give up a lot of control over one or more of his projects, which is something I don't think he'd necessarily be willing to do.

They'd have to reassemble the cast, which would be a great undertaking. They were *very* fortunate that Gary Cole signed on in the first place, and it could well be difficult to get everyone back on board.

Even if they accomplished that, there's the matter of rebuilding all the sets for the Excalibur, which were lost when Martial Law took over filming on the former B5 lot.

While none of these obstacles are unbeatable, it would take a lot to get Crusade back on the air. I for one would love for it to return, but I don't see it happening any time soon. Of course, I'd also love to be proven wrong on that...

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WombatControl
http://www.flarn.com/wombatcontrol/
"Who let the spoo out? Sigh sigh sigh sigh sigh..."

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Re: Let\'s Get Real Here

If the pilot of the Shadow/EA hybrid was unstable, then the ship could've gone mad, like big Shadow vessel that Sheridan and Delenn went after. Either that, or someone painted a nasty Psi Corps symbol on the Cerebus...and we all know how Shadowtech reacts to a Psi Corps symbol.

BLAMO!

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"We are dreamers, shapers, singers and makers. We study the mysteries of laser and circuit, crystal and scanner, holographic demons and invocations of equations. These are the tools we employ, and we know many things." Elric the Techno-Mage, "Geometry of Shadows"

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

Re: Let\'s Get Real Here

Wombat Control:

?????

Almost every objection you raised was discussed and an answer or alternative given in the posts above. Did you read any of them?

(To mention just one, the sets were not "lost" when Martial Law took over the old Babylonian facilities several months after filming finished. The sets were broken down and placed in storge on orders from Warner Bros. as soon as production was halted, in Feburary 1999. Babylonian didn't move out of the building until after post-production work on the 13 episodes was completed in April or May. There have been recent reports from reliable sources that some of these sets, as well as props, costumes and other material, have already left Los Angeles en route to Vancouver for use in the Rangers pilot film.)

Regards,

Joe


[This message has been edited by Joseph DeMartino (edited April 28, 2001).]

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

Re: Let\'s Get Real Here

Kitsune:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>If the pilot of the Shadow/EA hybrid was unstable, then the ship could've gone mad, like big Shadow vessel that Sheridan and Delenn went after.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you wandered into the wrong thread by mistake. If so, "Run for your LIFE!" It's dangerous in here.

If not, is this a comment on the sets, perhaps?

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division

 

[drakh]

Re: Let\'s Get Real Here

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WombatControl:
there's the matter of rebuilding all the sets for the Excalibur, which were lost when Martial Law took over filming on the former B5 lot.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Which is false rumour planted by a pair of producers with a sizable grudge against jms...


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[Recoil]

Re: Let\'s Get Real Here

To whoever posted regarding JMS and Crew going between 2 projects. I don't remember where I saw it, but 1 possible project is Rangers, the other is NOT A B5 related project. I believe that is what was meant by that statement. Crusade would be a third project from what I remember...

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[AntonyF]

Re: Let\'s Get Real Here

Gotta agree with Recoil, that's how I see it.

If JMS writes less, as he was planning to, then he could executive produce two B5 shows. Joss Whedon is another JMS... he executive produces Buffy, Angel, what will be the new Buffy cartoon, as well as writing numerous comics, a new comic book series and god knows what else! He doesn't get much sleep either!


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<font size="-2" color="silver">"The Babylon Project was our last, best, hope for peace.
A self-contained world five miles long, located in neutral
territory. A place of commerce and diplomacy for a quarter
of a million humans and aliens. A shining beacon in space,
all alone in the night. It was the dawn of the third age of
mankind, the year the great war came upon us all. This is
the story of the last of the Babylon stations. The year is
2259: the name of the place is Babylon 5."

 

[LondosHair]

Re: Let\'s Get Real Here

Ahh, I see that PoT is now trying to spread his "realism" here as well as the Sci-Fi bboard... I wonder why he doesn't catch the hint that he doesn't know what he's talking about?

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-Londo's Hair
"Vir, intelligence has
nothing to do with politics!"