Lennier's redemption

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Lennier\'s redemption

One of the most disappointing things for me about Crusade being axed was losing the opportunity to find out how Lennier redeems himself.

Since Rangers begins after his redemption, does this mean we will never find out?

 

[Demonn]

Re: Lennier\'s redemption

LotR takes place before Crusade, around 3 yrs after the end of season 5. Crusade took place about 5 years after season 5. So if we were gonna see it during Crusade than we still have a second chance.

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A proud member of the Wind Swords.
"War is life and death is the only true peace."
war-demon@b5fan.b5lr.com

 

[hypatia]

Re: Lennier\'s redemption

Somehow I thought that Lennier found his redemption during the telepath war. So it's the kind of thing that JMS might just possibly be saving for a feature film.

Sorry, it was awhile ago that I remember reading that, and I can't vouch for the validity. But it would make sense (to me anyway) to save some of the most "juicy" bits for a feature film.

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"The Bible is a book: it is a good book, but is is not the only book" - Inherit the Wind

"I do not believe that the same God who
has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."—Galileo

hypatia@b5fan.b5lr.com

 

[bakana]

Re: Lennier\'s redemption

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> "By the way, I note that SiL clearly does refer to 'events that had not yet happened when SiL was filmed '. For example, there's Lennier's death. (Remember that Lennier is toasted as one of the 'absent friends, in memory still bright'.) Franklin being the head of Xenobiology back on earth. Garibaldi being head of Edgar's Industries (although this is implicit in 'Rising Stars')."

Exactly so. Franklin's situation even predates any thought at all about Crusade as a series.

Garibaldi's death (a much quieter passing than he would have imagined waiting for him), Franklin's final fate on a distant, unexplored planet, Delenn's final journey (a quest involving Valen, though no one else around her believes it), Lennier's sacrifice... it's all mapped out, on the theory that whether or not it ever gets used, *I* had to know it.
jms <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

Re: Lennier\'s redemption

Yes, it has long been known that both

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>Lennier and Lyta</font></td></tr></table>

die in the Teep War - or at least "right around that time"

. This is mentioned in the Crusade Writer's Guide, among other places, and JMS has confirmed this on-line. One of the reasons that the Rangers pilot is set in 2265 is precisely to avoid the period of the Telepath War, which JMS has been "writing around" in all the post-B5 projects. So while we might hear a mention, or get a tantalizing glimpse of surrounding events in a Rangers series, I don't think we'll learn any details until the Teep War story itself is told in some form.

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net

 

[Recoil]

Re: Lennier\'s redemption

While this is possible true, one thing to kind of keep in mind, is that JMS has also always said 'it ain't cannon till it hits the screen.' Yea you are correct in that, what you mentioned was his current plan for the final fates of those 2 characters, but that doesnt mean it can't change between today, and when that part of the story gets told. One thing had already changed in fact in Crusade. During the Episode where they take that creature on that helps people remember the past, there was a scene at the end of the teep war where a rebel teep leader essentially gave her own life to kill most of Psi-Corp headquarters. That was originally supposed to be Lyta, but was changed at the last minute, due to scheduling conflicts.

Also, there have been times where JMS meant to do something one way, all the way to the point where he was actually writing the script and then changed it at the last minute, for a better idea. The whole Londo/Vir killing Cartigania (sp?) comes to mind.

Yea, everyone is correct in that both those characters are currently planned and assumed to die in that time period, but it is also true there is a chance some of that may change a bit before it gets told. Probably wont happen like that...but it is indeed possible.

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'I don't believe in the no-win scenario' - JTK

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

Re: Lennier\'s redemption

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>During the Episode where they take that creature on that helps people remember the past, there was a scene at the end of the teep war where a rebel teep leader essentially gave her own life to kill most of Psi-Corp headquarters.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm told that in the original script both Lyta and Lennier were involved in that raid on Psi Corps. However, you are assuming two things: 1) That the Teep depicted in that episode died. It seems likely that she did, but we never actually see her die. We cut away to Matheson's escaping shuttle and see the base explode beneath him. 2) That the episode as shot was exactly the same as it would have been with Lyta - that only the names were changed. I find this unlikely.

So we don't in fact know that anything changed about Lyta's planned fate.

In any event, JMS posted a not last year while discussing the upcoming TV movie in which he said, flat-out, that Lyta is killed in the Teep War and that Lennier dies, "right around that time." So while it is true that it isn't cannon until it is on-screen, it seems clear that he hasn't changed his plans for these two.

(Also Lyta's fate is at least hinted at on-screen, in the ISN report at the beginning of A Call to Arms. And Bester - in the canonical Telepath Trilogy - muses about Lyta and her fate a few times.)

While we still haven't seen the context, I think we can be as sure of her death in the war as we were of Londo and G'Kar strangling each other.

I think it more likely that JMS has slightly altered his plans for Lennier's end, since he now says "right aroun there", whereas he earlie said that Lennier was killed in the Teep War.

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net

 

[sputnik]

Re: Lennier\'s redemption

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Recoil:
While this is possible true, one thing to kind of keep in mind, is that JMS has also always said 'it ain't cannon till it hits the screen.'<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

whilst i hate to be pedantic (actually thats not true, i love being pedantic but whatever) stuff does not have to be on-screen to be canon.

to quote from the introduction in 'To Dream in The City of Sorrows', written by JMS:

"While most of the Dell books to date have contained some elements that are considered canon, this is the very first one that is considered canonical in every small detail."

We also get some hints about Lyta in the Telepath trilogy, another set of books that are apparently also canonical...

cheers!



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[Recoil]

Re: Lennier\'s redemption

I should have phrased that differently. I do know City of Sorrows is considered like %99 cannon, cause it was written by his wife

Also the Centauri and PsiCore trilogy are as well since they were written from an outline by him, and that the Mage trilogy is also considered mostly cannon. I did take that quote from something JMS himself said (read it on the lurkers guide) and it was meant as a figure of speech.

My point was that no where in B5 does it directly say what happened to those 2. Not in a book (although its hinted at in the Psi-Corp trilogy) not in a telemovie, and not in the series. Joe D, I do know that he has stated several times as to this topic, but _MY_ point is that he has also in the past stated somethings then changed them at the last minute, in favor of a better idea. All I was saying is that anything is possible until it hits the screen (or book

). I however tend to agree that things will play out as he has stated, I was just trying to say that anything can happen

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'I don't believe in the no-win scenario' - JTK