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Legend of the Rangers
- Thread starter Matthew
- Start date
vacantlook
Super Moderator
I liked Rangers a lot too. It wasn't perfect, but then neither was "The Gathering." I thought there was enormous potential for a series, but alas it didn't come to be.
hypatia
Regular
Well, I loved the idea of another B5 series. I adored some of the characters from the pilot. Hated the weapons-systems concept.
There were some corny aspects to it, and the writing was a bit sloppy in a few little ways... but nothing that couldn't easily have improved by the first episode (or second, or whatever the ep following a pilot is called).
StarForBram
Regular
Am I the only one who thinks the LOTR dvd was about as cheap of a dvd as they have ever seen? I mean, no extras, not even a booklet, nothing.
GreenDrazi
Member
I agree, it was pretty damn cheap!
I have not seen LotR since it was first shown a few years ago. I re-watched it last night and it had potential. It just sucks that there is no more new B5 anymore. This was it. I wish they'd come up with a new series, but I doubt that will happen given what happened with Tmos.
KoshN
Super Moderator
I, too, picked it up, because I'm a completist. e.g. I also have Dell #4 & 5.
Mostly
.I put up reviews here:
See "On the Whole, Disappointing, But Could Have Been Corrected In A Series., 26 May 2002"
and
"1 Star, Barely., March 12, 2006"
....but use caution, because I gave it 1 Star out of 5.
It's my least favorite installment of anything in the Babylon 5 universe.
I finally saw LotR for the first time and I'm afraid to say that I'm with KoshN on this one. To be fair, I hated the first episode of Crusade that I saw (War Zone) and it got much better, but there were all kinds of issues surrounding that (lack of time, pressure from the station to include certain aspects) that weren't necessarily an issue here. This one was just bad all on its own.
The first thing I noticed was the acting. Yikes, never have I seen an entire cast of flatter actors. Putting Katsulas on the same screen as the rest of these guys was really a bad idea because his skill as an actor just overwhelmes theirs so much that it makes their flat job seem even worse. I mean, we have guys sacrificing their lives in what is supposed to be a dramatic moment and it just doesn't suck you in at all. When that kind of thing happend in B5 you got that little feeling in your gut, here with the acting job it couldn't even be taken seriously enough to care.
We also have the weapons thing. Decent idea, God awful execution. I have never seen anything cornier in my life, and that means a lot on a sci-fi forum. The looks on her face while she was throwing and kicking the little fireballs was hilarious, and then she went into beserk mode and my girlfriend (who I was watching it with) literally fell out of her chair laughing.
I didn't even like the whole story concept. A super powerful race from another dimension is trying to invade our galaxy. Wait, didn't we just see that same story in 3rd space?
Beyond that, I hate it when shows with an already established universe introduce new omnipotent race that's never been mentioned before. The whole "the Shadows were just insects compared to them" line really just set me off. We spent two and a half years building up how the Shadows were this overpowering race millions of years old, and then spent another year and a half watching the fight against them, and yet another year dealing with their leftover tech. We learned of the "first ones" and the age and power of these races, and now all of the sudden in a two minute speech from a guy with forks sticking out of his face we've got this new race that makes that 5 year investment look like insects?
It really undermines everything we've learned of the B5 universe the last decade.
Also my least favorite installment of anything B5, and honestly I'm kind of glad a series never came of it as it really could've left a bad taste in my mouth.
The first thing I noticed was the acting. Yikes, never have I seen an entire cast of flatter actors. Putting Katsulas on the same screen as the rest of these guys was really a bad idea because his skill as an actor just overwhelmes theirs so much that it makes their flat job seem even worse. I mean, we have guys sacrificing their lives in what is supposed to be a dramatic moment and it just doesn't suck you in at all. When that kind of thing happend in B5 you got that little feeling in your gut, here with the acting job it couldn't even be taken seriously enough to care.
We also have the weapons thing. Decent idea, God awful execution. I have never seen anything cornier in my life, and that means a lot on a sci-fi forum. The looks on her face while she was throwing and kicking the little fireballs was hilarious, and then she went into beserk mode and my girlfriend (who I was watching it with) literally fell out of her chair laughing.
I didn't even like the whole story concept. A super powerful race from another dimension is trying to invade our galaxy. Wait, didn't we just see that same story in 3rd space?
Beyond that, I hate it when shows with an already established universe introduce new omnipotent race that's never been mentioned before. The whole "the Shadows were just insects compared to them" line really just set me off. We spent two and a half years building up how the Shadows were this overpowering race millions of years old, and then spent another year and a half watching the fight against them, and yet another year dealing with their leftover tech. We learned of the "first ones" and the age and power of these races, and now all of the sudden in a two minute speech from a guy with forks sticking out of his face we've got this new race that makes that 5 year investment look like insects?
It really undermines everything we've learned of the B5 universe the last decade.
Also my least favorite installment of anything B5, and honestly I'm kind of glad a series never came of it as it really could've left a bad taste in my mouth.
vacantlook
Super Moderator
For some reason, I don't remember Rangers saying conclusively that whomever it was that was locked away in another dimension was the same race as The Hand.
You don't think that Kafta could have been wrong and deluded?
Not really, it only is a statement that we haven't seen everyone that's ever walked through the galaxy before and that the galaxy is a bigger place that we've realized that we've seen. jms himself has said that while he himself knows of other species that he's created that are in the B5-universe, we haven't seen everyone he's thought up. The Hand and their servants are just the most recent ones he began to tell us about, but it got put kapput before it really got going. Remember, one of jms's favorite themes is that not everyone is what they appear to be. G'Kar even cites that in Rangers. So, it would be premature to assume based solely on a 2-hour pilot movie in which we don't even see The Hand that we know what The Hand are just because one of their sycophants regurgitates what they think them to be.
KoshN
Super Moderator
When I first watched War Zone back in June 1999, there were a few things I immediately disliked:
1. The initial fight scene, which looked as if it was being performed by people inexperienced and completely unskilled in performing fight scenes. The one-on-one fight scene between Gideon and the ensign was <u>much</u> better performed.
2. The whole reason for the fight scene was ridiculous. Why would they think the Captain was going to take them back where they could become infected? It's an airborn virus. They know that. They've been listening to ISN reports. Why would a captain take his crew down onto a quarrantined planet and thereby infect them all? Do they have such little confidence in Gideon? Do they have such little confidence in Earthforce? The story reason for the mutiny is just plain stupid.
The real reason for the mutiny, is that TNT-Atlanta wanted a fight scene. So, JMS gave them a stupid one, probably to make their fight scene edict look stupid.
3. I disliked Tim Thomerson's performance in almost every bit of every scene he was in. Bad acting. It was like he had trouble getting the lines out without tripping and falling over the words. However, the guy who played Mr. Ames was OK. He came across as believable, to me. Thomerson was a cardboard cutout.
4. I hated the inconsistancy in names between Ensign <u>James</u> and his father Mr. <u>Ames</u>. Why introduce nits like that? Why? To make the episode look bad? Why introduce things that "look" wrong, like there was some proofreading error, like nobody's checking the scripts for consistancy? Why?
5. David Allen Brooks (Max Eilerson), in the scene where they’re going over Jensen’s last transmission, David mush-mouths one of his lines. “Is there any way to get word back to the companah to tell them that we’ve got trouble?”
6. The medical team under Dr. Sarah Chambers, all of which we never see again.
7. The shuttle pilot Jensen, who can’t see stuff when he’s right on top of it, and who might as well have been a target drone. Nice flying there bud, tight turns over an AA battery. Smaaaarrrttt! In reality, Jensen was that bad to make Trace and his barrel rolls look good. Guess alien gunners are easliy fooled by barrel rolls. A skid would have been better.
8. Gideon said he almost died there 9 years ago. It was 8 years ago. Jan. 2267 (“War Zone”) to Jan 2259 (“The Geometry of Shadows”) is 8 years.
9. The exposition laden final scene. Must blatantly connect the dots for the newbies.
Mostly agreed. Well, Warner Brothers loss of all of the B5 & Crusade CGI files did play a part in it. JMS had to work around all of that.
Here, I disagree. First of all, I thought that Alex Zahara (Dulann) did a very fine job. He had chemistry and a fine sense of humor with Dylan Neal (Capt. David Martel), the kind of humor that you often see between close friends. That part rang 100% true for me. However, Dylan Neal was <u>definitely</u> the weaker half of that acting duo.
Dylan Neal (David Martell) - plain vanilla, trying to act like more. Would have been better off with more of a character actor here, instead of a pretty boy leading man type. That’s where Gary Cole was so much better in Crusade. Sure, he’s considered handsome by most, but there’s also a quirkiness and a complexity that you <u>know</u> is there. That’s interesting, whereas Dylan Neal (David Martell) was one dimensional, trying (unsuccessfully) to act like he had more layers to him.
As for Andreas Katsulas (G’Kar), I thought this was Andreas weakest outing as G’Kar. It seemed that whenever Andreas was paired with one of B5’s cast (in the past, during B5), the result was more than the sum of the parts. Here, that was not the case. Here, in B5:LotR-TLaDiS Andreas was good, as usual, but he might as well have been alone in his scenes, because the other actors had no positive effect upon the quality of the scene, and in case of Myriam Sirois (Sarah Cantrell), had a definite negative effect on the scene, ruining it, IMO. Admittedly, a lot of Myriam’s lines were bad (sooo very bad and corny), but another actor probably would have been able to do a better job with those same lines. The scene where Myriam (Sarah) cleared the minefield was one of the worst scenes, if not the worst scene that I’ve ever experienced on television. That was painful.
Dean Marshall (Malcolm Bridges) - benign, completely forgettable.
Warren Takeuchi (Kitaro Sasaki) - benign, completely forgettable.
Jennie Rebecca Hogan (Na'Feel) - excellent! A true Narn in the mold of the Julie Caitlin Brown (Na’Toth). She’s irreverent, highly competent, and seems to have a wicked sense of humor. She’s exactly who’s needed to keep the guys on their toes, and yet bail them out in an engineer-Scotty-miracle-worker sort of way. I’d like to see more of this actress/character. Well done!
David Storch (Tafeek) - benign, completely forgettable. A Minbari Ranger, who seems a bit timid, as a first contact/PR guy??? This is just wrong.
Enid-Raye Adams (Firell) - excellent! Competent, understated and reserved, but I get the feeling that she also has a sense of humor lurking underneath. I could see her poking Zack with a sewing needle in the Army of Light uniform fitting scene.
I’d like to see more of this actress/character. Well done!Gus Lynch (Tirk) - I can’t see this guy ever making it through Ranger training. No way. Nobody that slow-witted would ever make the cut. Unbelievable.
Campbell Lane (Alien Captain) - the spokesman of the cronies of The Hand. Came off as a slightly polished raider thug, nothing more.
Todd Sandomirsky (Tannier) - Oh Tannier, Tannier, what has JMS done to you? You’ve been lobotomized and made into a pompous automaton who follows this looney Ranger Council, blindly. Sure, you were inexperienced in B5S5’s “Learning Curve” (late February 2262), but here, 2 to 3 years later, you’ve de-evolved, and been given the newest, best ship in the Ranger fleet, and you lose the ship on your first time out! GAH!!!
God awful acting, too. Her first VR weapons scene (defending against the initial attack on the Valen) wasn’t too, too bad, and neither was the one in the comet’s tail, but that one where she’s destroying all the mines (good mine effects, BTW), was horrible. It was painful for me to watch because I was trying to take it seriously. Once I let go of that, it was unintentionally comical. Now, seeing it again yesterday, it was just painful, right up there with getting my gums extracted (to use one of Garibaldi’s lines).
Yes. Same story, but not necessarily the same alien race as others have assumed that you said.
Exactly! It minimizes all the great stuff that’s gone before. However, as others have said, Mackenzie Gray (Minister Kafta) may have been deluded or misinformed regarding The Hand, OR he may also have been well informed but was misleading the Interstellar Alliance personnel. <font color="orange">The trouble is that JMS sets up this stuff, possibly misleading us all, assuming that he’ll get to tell the rest of the tale. Then, when he isn’t given the chance to tell the rest of the tale, we’re left with unsatisfying misdirection, tons of loose ends and stuff that looks like blatant mistakes.</font>
JMS probably would have been able to pull this off, IF he’d ever been given the chance. <font color="orange">The trouble is that anymore, he’s NEVER given the chance. Also, the last two B5 projects “look like” utter failures on his part. The more of those that you have, the less likely you’re EVER going to be able to finish those stories or do ANYTHING in the future in the B5 universe.</font>
And the part in <font color="orange">ORANGE</font>, really, really, REALLY pisses me off.
Back when The Sci-Fi Channel passed on continuing Crusade and instead went with B5:LotR-TLaDiS, I had the same reaction the Frankenstein monster in Young Frankenstein had when Gene Hackman as the blind hermit broke the monster's mug of wine. I just looked to the sky and said to myself "I can't believe this is frickin' happening." Warner Brothers (losers of CGI files, and unwilling to share ownership) + Sci-Fi (masters of missed opportunities) = lead.
GKarsEye
Regular
Given JMS' record in the B5 universe, don't you think some of those "criticisms" would have been resolved and/or explained later on?
Sure the captain looked "vanilla," but so did Sheridan when he first popped up.
The Drazi "dumb" Ranger- who knows how he got through Ranger training. Maybe it was political. Maybe it's an act and he's really brilliant but is embarrassed to show it to other Drazi- who knows?
And certainly that VR weapons thing would have been gone, given the negative reaction.
Sure the captain looked "vanilla," but so did Sheridan when he first popped up.
The Drazi "dumb" Ranger- who knows how he got through Ranger training. Maybe it was political. Maybe it's an act and he's really brilliant but is embarrassed to show it to other Drazi- who knows?
And certainly that VR weapons thing would have been gone, given the negative reaction.
KoshN
Super Moderator
And that's why I said "JMS probably would have been able to pull this off, IF he’d ever been given the chance."
True, but Sheridan had the benefit of coming into an established story and cast, and that helped. Here, the whole main cast was new, and the audience had nothing to fall back on, no familiar characters they already knew and liked other than G'Kar.
Strings pulled to get somebody into the Rangers? ....maybe. Still, can you see somebody getting into SEAL training based upon political connections AND making it into the SEALs based upon political connections? The former, yeah, I guess it's possible, but the latter? I don't think so. That happens based upon merit, upon passing all of the tests and challenges. Making it into that elite team, based upon anything other than merit, endangers the rest of the team and the missions.
Naah. He was like that even when there was nobody around but the Liandra crew. He almost seems like a token character that the network wanted JMS to include, or something like that, e.g. a Keffer or Trace. Now, I admit that JMS did start to flesh out Trace in Crusade, but Trace seemed to have a lot more on the ball than Tirk. I don't know, I just can't see "basket-weaving guy" in the Rangers.
I hope so! Then again, he might have just modified it, giving it more automated controls that required less physical effort (upgraded processors and a software upgrade that allows easy targeting of multiple targets or whole areas?), and had Myriam tone down her acting.
Sindatur
Regular
Thing about the Weapons system is, JMS ended up with the final result, out of neccessity. What he had in mind was supposed to be much cooler, but, budget and time constraints made it into the disaster we saw on screen.
So, maybe had it gone to series, his initial idea would've come about, and he could've had endless fun poking at the silliness of it, throughout the first season, maybe
So, maybe had it gone to series, his initial idea would've come about, and he could've had endless fun poking at the silliness of it, throughout the first season, maybe
B5_Obsessed
Regular
From what I got, JMS basically wanted to imitate the "Death Blossom" from "The Last Starfighter" with Sarah floating in a chair suspended in (simullated) space that could turn in any direction and fire on its target.
As for acting, we went through this so long ago I can barely remember. I liked most of the characters as portrayed, with the very real exception of Sarah Cantrell. This movie would be the one she leaves off her resume when she's hitting auditions. Warren's Kitaro Sasaki was barely fleshed out and did seem very timid (or was he acting?). Martell and Dulann's chemistry was right up there in Kirk / Spock territory. The worst thing about Martell to me were his Zoolander looks. The man was just too pretty to take seriously most of the time. I did, however, think his scenes with G'Kar and Minster Kafta were good and that he handled himself well. As for Tirk, you may recall that even the Pak'Ma'rah were allowed entry into the Rangers as part of a rigorous diversity effort. I believe the Drazi were the first Non-Alligned species allowed in. In this outing, he was there for comedy, but I could easily see JMS giving the big lug his share of pain and drama as time went on (a la Vir). I liked Malcolm too. He was barely there, but the scene where G'Kar discovers his masquerade was pretty funny.
I didn't like the effects. I definitely missed Foundation and Netter Digital. Christopher Franke's score was very good. The ships were ugly. But the story showed promise. Of what, we'll never know.
As for acting, we went through this so long ago I can barely remember. I liked most of the characters as portrayed, with the very real exception of Sarah Cantrell. This movie would be the one she leaves off her resume when she's hitting auditions. Warren's Kitaro Sasaki was barely fleshed out and did seem very timid (or was he acting?). Martell and Dulann's chemistry was right up there in Kirk / Spock territory. The worst thing about Martell to me were his Zoolander looks. The man was just too pretty to take seriously most of the time. I did, however, think his scenes with G'Kar and Minster Kafta were good and that he handled himself well. As for Tirk, you may recall that even the Pak'Ma'rah were allowed entry into the Rangers as part of a rigorous diversity effort. I believe the Drazi were the first Non-Alligned species allowed in. In this outing, he was there for comedy, but I could easily see JMS giving the big lug his share of pain and drama as time went on (a la Vir). I liked Malcolm too. He was barely there, but the scene where G'Kar discovers his masquerade was pretty funny.
I didn't like the effects. I definitely missed Foundation and Netter Digital. Christopher Franke's score was very good. The ships were ugly. But the story showed promise. Of what, we'll never know.
vacantlook
Super Moderator
I say some of us deserve to have some mancandy once in a while.
vacantlook
Super Moderator
I love the scene between David and Dulann when they first go aboard the Liandra to check it out and see what sort of work they're going to have on their hands to get the ship up and running again. "Was that your head? However did that happen?" Hee hee. And then Dulann's quip about hitting things doesn't solve problems, but then at the end he hits the pannelling on the side of the wall to make the holodisplay work right. Hee hee.
