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Just Posted This Over At "rec.arts.sf.tv" ....

KoshN

Super Moderator
Just Posted This Over At \"rec.arts.sf.tv\" ....

> > They (TNT) only know drama in the ass. Crusade would
> > have been great. Just look at the episodes made before
> > TNT shoved a stick up their ass and made JMS do what
> > they wanted.
>
> From what I saw, there wasn't much a difference in suck
> level between the "JMS free to express himself" episodes
> and "JMS, slave of the corporate drones" episodes.
>
> Crusade was just bad. Badly written, badly acted, badly
> done.

Well, of course you're free to hold that opinion. I, on the other
hand, think you're 100% DEAD WRONG. When I first saw
he Crusade episodes on TNT, I wasn't impressed. This was
partly because of the jumbled order (so the characters
seemed to be intermittently lacking direction and impetus),
partly because it was something new (not the comfortable
territory of the "Babylon 5" TV show), and partly because it
contained some stuff that stuck out as "non-JMS." The
episodes also seemed to be empty (i.e. lacking substance,
density of material, the number of threads that I was used to
seeing on B5). However, after seeing the Crusade episodes
more than once and in a better order, being able to pick up
subtle nuances, and getting to know the characters, my
opinion of Crusade has changed drastically (for the better).

Crusade is a show that improves dramatically with repeated
viewings. If you're not willing to put in a little effort, and want
to cling to your current opinion, so be it. However, if your
mind isn't totally rusted shut on this, and you're willing to give
them a second look, you may start to see things a little
differently.
 
Re: Just Posted This Over At \"rec.arts.sf.tv\" ....

I still don't get why the Eps were filmed in the order that they were. Wasn't there a problem with character and plot progression because they were filmed out of sequence?
 
Re: Just Posted This Over At \"rec.arts.sf.tv\" ....

Episodes are often filmed out of sequence to save money - for example, if the same sets are used in several episodes that might be a few eps apart in the eventual airing order, they are filmed right after one another if the script is finished.
 
Re: Just Posted This Over At \"rec.arts.sf.tv\" ....

Unfortunately weren't they aired in that order too?
 
Re: Just Posted This Over At \"rec.arts.sf.tv\" ....

Well, since the episodes that probably should have been aired between them were never filmed, that can't be helped.
 
Re: Just Posted This Over At \"rec.arts.sf.tv\" ....

Really? The lost scripts were space fillers? I have another question. When sci-fi aired Crusade. Why did they air "War Zone" almost last?
 
Re: Just Posted This Over At \"rec.arts.sf.tv\" ....

I don't know about the 'lost scripts' - I believe one of them was meant as a mid-season episode and another was to be the last one, the cliffhanger.

As for War Zone - as far as I know, it's the episode JMS hates most as it wasn't one he ever planned to do - he was only forced to write a new opening episode because TNT wanted it. But he wasn't too happy with the outcome.

So I guess that while SciFi is showing the 13 episodes in the order JMS considers the best, under the circumstances, it doesn't want to completely shelf War Zone either (after all, they've paid for it and all that! *LOL* ) - so it was just added some place towards the end of the airing order.
 
Re: Just Posted This Over At \"rec.arts.sf.tv\" ....

"Lost scripts" was a bad term. "Un-aired scripts" is better. Was the new uniform idea TNT's? They were horrid! Gideon was right. They do look like bell hops in them!
 
Re: Just Posted This Over At \"rec.arts.sf.tv\" ....

Yeah, I was actually referring to the unaired scripts.

As for the uniforms - actually the black ones were the ones TNT requested, the bellhop grey/red ones were the original ones... unless I'm completely confusing things here, of course. /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif
I have to say the black uniforms were IMHO the one good thing that came out of the TNT meddlings.
 
Re: Just Posted This Over At \"rec.arts.sf.tv\" ....

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>As for the uniforms - actually the black ones were the ones TNT requested, the bellhop grey/red ones were the original ones... unless I'm completely confusing things here, of course.<hr></blockquote>
This is true. I believe that TNT also forked out for some extra sets, but this happened before the meddling. The meddling came when another part of TNT took over Crusade and started handing down notes.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>I still don't get why the Eps were filmed in the order that they were.<hr></blockquote>
As Kribu mentioned, to save money. I believe B5 was one of only a few sci-fi shows that ended up under or on budget because of the meticulous planning involved.

I'll leave it for people who know much more (KoshN, Joe DM) to fill in the details since I'm a bit sketchy.
 
Re: Just Posted This Over At \"rec.arts.sf.tv\" ....

I've finally dug out Joe DeM's detailed post on uniforms and the rest, the full thing is <a target="_blank" href=http://64.91.237.231/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=UBB3&Number=21708&page=&view=&sb=&o=>here</a>.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Under this plan Babylonian productions turned out the first five episodes, starting with "Racing the Night." These featured the grey and red uniforms that the network had approved originally...

...Atlanta gets Babylonian Productions to ship them rough cuts of a couple of episodes, overnight. These cuts don't exist on film, they are in the form of Avid digital editing files. Avid uses a lo-res format (comparable to a GIF file) to save space. Avid images also tend to be darker than film images, which everyone who works on an Avid knows and makes allowances for. The guys at TNT don't work on the Avid. Also few or none of the FX shots have been produced at this point.

They see the footage and hate it. They don't like the pace of the episodes, they don't like the "feel" and most of all, they don't like the look. Everything is too dark. You can't see all the expensive sets and those grey uniforms just blend into the background. The call L.A. and order a production halt.

TNT sends reps to L.A. They repaint and redesign the sets and change the uniforms to something that will contrast better with the backgrounds....<hr></blockquote> I must admit to being a little confused, I thought that the black ones changed to the grey and red ones. It's been a few months since I last watched Crusade.
 
Re: Just Posted This Over At \"rec.arts.sf.tv\" ....

wow! didn't know the archives still went back that far.
 
Re: Just Posted This Over At \"rec.arts.sf.tv\" ....

It took a while to find, but my world's-worst-memory was sure it was in there. /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif
 
Re: Just Posted This Over At \"rec.arts.sf.tv\" ....

That's because of the messed-up airing order. The grey and red was the original uniform - those episodes were just filmed first, but not meant to be shown in that order.
 
Re: Just Posted This Over At \"rec.arts.sf.tv\" ....

Thanks, I guess Joe must have got carried away in his rant and wrote the wrong change down. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif
 
Re: Just Posted This Over At \"rec.arts.sf.tv\" ....

You're gonna make me get my tapes out aren't you! /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif
 
Re: Just Posted This Over At \"rec.arts.sf.tv\" ....

And the tapes say.... Grey and Red in racing the night - the original first episode before the changes.

*Takes his hat off to Joe DM* Sorry for questioning your text, sir /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif
 
Re: Just Posted This Over At \"rec.arts.sf.tv\" ....

So in the story the black were first but in the filming the grey were first.
 
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