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Jumpgate Technology

I think it was the Vorlons. Of all the First One-level races present at the battle at Coriana 6 in "Into The Fire," the Vorlons are the only once that jump to hyperspace in the same kind of swirling portal that the jumpgates and the jumpengines of the younger races use.
 
The Vorlons are responsible for seeding the galaxy with jump gates. Thats the reason why the jump points the Vorlons form and all the other younger races form are the same.
 
It is very possible predecessors to the Vorlons made the jumpgates. However, the Vorlons, to our knowledge, are the only race that has made "pockets in hyperspace." ("The Summoning")
Who knows? It is kind of like asking who got the idea to jump on a horse, and ride it?
 
Yeah, there is an ep someplace, I think it's season 2's The Long Dark that mentions how the jumpgates were already there when the younger races such as the Centauri and Minbari and Humans got out into space.

Now so far every here has said that the Vorlons created the first gates. I have another question:

Was it the Vorlons that first made ships that can jump in and out on their own without jumpgates? Or was it the Shadows or another First One race?
 
Was it the Vorlons that first made ships that can jump in and out on their own without jumpgates? Or was it the Shadows or another First One race?
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Well, since the Shadows are older than all the other First Ones that we've seen except for Lorien, and their ships can indidivudally jump to hyperspace -- even their really tiny fighter-size ships -- it could logically be said they first arrived at the concept based solely on the information given to us. However, I think it's a fairly broad concept of individual ships jumping to hyperspace that it wouldn't be illogical to think that many different races developed the concept on their own.

Since the Shadow ships jump to hyperspace differently than the Vorlon and younger races' ships, I would say in terms of the younger races developing individually jumping ships, that they either got that information from the Vorlons or developed it independently on their own after having studied the jumpgates they found in space.
 
The younger races probably studied the properties of Quantium 40, and realised that it's ability to form jum points could be applied to ships with large enough reactors. The main reason the gate network exists is for navigation, as well as the fact that Quantium 40 is a rare element and is not plentiful enough for any race to use purely in ships and without the use of the gate network... which brings me to my question...

Did the vorlons use Quantium 40 deliberately because of it's lack of abundance? As it would make each race dependant on the gate network, it would be an effective way of forcing the younger races to co-operate with one another. Without the gate and beacon network interstellar travel for the younger races would be impossible. Is it a way of forcing order on them?
 
Thats a possiblity, but it may just be that the properties of the Q-40 are capable of opening a jump point. Who's to say that there is another substance capable of producing enough energy to rip a whole in the fabric of space that Q-40 can. But it is an interesting thought.
 
Ships capable of jumping into and out of hyperspace would have to have pre-dated any extensive network of the gates themselves. While it is possible that the first experiments with accessing hyperspace involved a single gate in a fixed position, it is obvious that if you're going to put a second gate somewhere else you need a ship capable of transporting the gate to its destination, exiting hyperspace, and setting it up. (Remember, the gates only really "exist" in normal space. On the hyperspace side you only see the "hole" they open up. From close enough to the gate you can send a signal to activate it and emerge from hyperspace, but the gate still has to be sitting there in normal space.)

Explorer ships like the Cortez are as large as they are, in part, because they carry a number of disassembled jumpgates. When they come upon a likely system, they enter normal space and drop a gate for follow-on science and merchant vessels to use while the Explorers themselves move on. (The mega-corps that hired prospectors like Catherine Sakai did much the same, only with automated ships that would make a quick survey, drop a gate if it seemed justified, then head out to the next system.)

I suspect that original gate network predates the Vorlons. Although the Shadows use a different looking method of entering and leaving hyperspace, I doubt that it differs fundamentally from that used by the Vorlons and others. All of the differences are probably like the difference in the sound of car engines hear on Earth, noticable, but not indicative of much about the underlying technologies. Because the Shadows also habitually made their ships invisible, and perhaps only "decloaked" after leaving hyperspace they appeared to be doing something different. (And it appeared that their fighters could "jump" unaided, which may not be the case. Like Earth ships the Shadows may simply launch fighters as they emerge from hyperspace. If they're invisible at that moment it would seem that the fighters entered normal space on their own when they become visible a few seconds later and widely separated. Similarly a Shadow mothership might remain "cloaked" while its fighters become visible.)

Regards,

Joe
 
Ships capable of jumping into and out of hyperspace would have to have pre-dated any extensive network of the gates themselves. While it is possible that the first experiments with accessing hyperspace involved a single gate in a fixed position, it is obvious that if you're going to put a second gate somewhere else you need a ship capable of transporting the gate to its destination, exiting hyperspace, and setting it up. (Remember, the gates only really "exist" in normal space. On the hyperspace side you only see the "hole" they open up. From close enough to the gate you can send a signal to activate it and emerge from hyperspace, but the gate still has to be sitting there in normal space.)
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The First Ones must have made their first voyages into interstellar space when they were quite advanced then, as they would have needed sophisticated navigational systems to find their way around without beacons. However, being born naturally immortal (from an ageing perspective), this is not so outlandish. Especially when you hark back to Lorien's conversation with Ivanova.

The Shadows sometimes lauunched their ships on-screen, The Long Twilight Struggle being an obvious instance. Notice how they launch extremely quickly. Spat out by the mothership in a cluster, and then flying apart when they reach a desirable distance. Given the time it took to launch on screen, it is entirely possible that they launch before decloaking.

What about my question?
 
Because the Shadows also habitually made their ships invisible, and perhaps only "decloaked" after leaving hyperspace they appeared to be doing something different.
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I used to think the Shadow ships cloaked as well, but now I dont think they do at all, and that they are never invisible. In "Matters of Honor" when the Shadow ship is chasing the Whitestar it goes through the jumpgate and you see it make that rippling "de-cloak" effect as it comes out. This rippling de-cloaking effect is simply them coming out of hyperspace.

When they appear to de-cloak and attack in Seasons 1 - 3, it is really the same thing as all the Minbari coming out of jumppoints right on top of their targets. They arent de-cloaking, just coming out of hyperspace.

Another thing that supports that their ships are not invisible is that Keffer and the others spot them in Hyperspace. If they could cloak and wanted to remain a secret, then they probably would have done so. Also, in NORMAL space, Captain Maynard said he saw "something" (which we know was a Shadow ship) on the rim in space. If they could cloak, they never seemed to like actually doing it. I think its just them jumping out of hyperspace when attacking.

Their ships ARE black and very hard to spot, but I dont think they cloak at all.
 
This rippling de-cloaking effect is simply them coming out of hyperspace.
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That's what I've always seen their rippling to be: emerging from hyperspace; not de-cloaking. That's what makes me say that while the basic phyiscs of their jumping in and out of hyperspace may be the same as the swirling jumppoint vortexes, it's a significantly different kind of engine enabling the jump.
 
As was mentioned earlier in the posts, all the Ancients have their own way of entering and leaving hyperspace. The Vorlons and consequently the younger races form a jump point, the Shadows phase into and out of hyperspace. Though it looks like they are cloaking they are actually phasing from one dimension to another, so to speak.
 
I agree, that rippling effect is just the Shadow ship coming out of hyperspace, possibly by phasing. I've always assumed that the Shadows had a different system that the others, since it looks so different.
 
Another thing that supports that their ships are not invisible is that Keffer and the others spot them in Hyperspace. If they could cloak and wanted to remain a secret, then they probably would have done so.
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The notion of Shadows ships having a cloaking ability comes (to me) from the ability of the Shadows themselfs to cloak. I think that the ships can cloak, but can't be invisible as you said. The cloaking action is most likely a "heavy duty" even for the Shadows ships, so they won't activate it all the time, but will use it before attacks to have the advantage.
Maybe that's a little weak, but it's hard for me to beleive that their ships don't have cloaking at all.
 
There is no evidence that any of the races, Ancient or not to have the ability of cloaking. Than again there is no evidence that they don't have the ability. I still don't believe that the Shadows have the ability to cloak though. The fact that their ships are black and would therefore blend in with the backdrop of space is enough as it is. The Shadows really don't need cloaking as a defence as they are the oldest race present aside from Lorien.
 
There is no evidence that any of the races, Ancient or not to have the ability of cloaking
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There is no hard evidence that Shadows ships have cloaking, but there is evidence that the shadows themselves have cloaking (S4-Into the Fire:Londos' guards shooting the pair of invisible Shadows around Morden.), which makes me wonder why couldn't they translate that ability to their organic ships!

The Shadows really don't need cloaking as a defence as they are the oldest race present aside from Lorien
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That's what I was trying to say in the last post - they don't use their cloaking for defence, but for offence.
 
:confused: The only info i could find on jumgates.Was in "To Dream In The City Of Sorrows"It has an unknown race in Circa 5000 BC building the jumgate network!Colin.<*>.
 
I really don't like that "cloaking" thingie. To me, they only "switch" from hyperspace to normal space. They don't cloak, they just go into hyperspace. Altough, the whole cloaking idea isn't impossible. Because one of the younger races has shielding technology. If representative of young race can create almost unpenetratable shield, then why Shadows, the first ones, can't use cloaking... At least they had a lot of time to figure it out and adapt it to their ships.
 
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