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ITB DVD RCE?

drakh

Regular
JoeD, you've got access to the WB info site... Does it say anything about whether or not the disc is RCEed?

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"When a spark goes online, there's great joy --
When one's extinguished, the universe weeps." (audio)
-- Rhinox, "The Spark", Beast Wars

drakh@spamcop.net
 
More information on DVD:
Release Information:
Studio: Warner Studios
Theatrical Release Date: February 22, 1993
DVD Release Date: December 4, 2001
Run Time: 189 minutes
Production Company: Warner Studios
Package Type: Keep Case


Aspect Ratio(s):
Widescreen anamorphic - 1.85:1
Full Screen (Standard) - 1.33:1


Discographic Information:
DVD Encoding: Region 1
Layers: Dual
Available Audio Tracks: English (Dolby Digital 2.0 Stereo), French (Dolby Digital 2.0 Stereo)


Edition Details:
• Region 1 encoding (US and Canada only)
• Color, Closed-captioned, Widescreen, Box set
• "The Gathering" - Full Frame
• "In the Beginning" - Anamorphic Widescreen (1.85:1)
• Full-screen and widescreen anamorphic formats
• Number of discs: 2
• ASIN: B00005NTNP

Not a lot of good stuff. Just Widescreen and 2 audio tracks.
frown.gif




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Webmaster for B5:A2
Babylon 5: Armada II
A MOD for Star Trek: Armada II
http://www.tgu.org.uk/users/babylon5/
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Adam:
I checked Amazon.com it said it was Region 1 encoding (US and Canada only) only.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I know that. And in any case, it's second hand information. There's at least one site claiming it's an RCE disc, and I'd like to know directly from the source.

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"When a spark goes online, there's great joy --
When one's extinguished, the universe weeps." (audio)
-- Rhinox, "The Spark", Beast Wars

drakh@spamcop.net
 
If I were a "suit" at Warner Home Video, I would be against publishing Babylon 5 in RCE (region code enhanced) format. The disks are meant to be sold internationally and Warner is aware of this.

Experimenting with RCE on the international market would be equivalent to gambling. Not all multiregion DVD players accept RCE disks without trouble. As the technology is new, nobody knows the exact percentage. If the percentage is large, it is going to hurt Warner's sales. Being interested in profit, they wouldn't like to find it out in the hard way.

Personally, I ignore the existence of other regions besides Region 1. As a protest against the illegal act of competition suppressment and censorship known as the region code system, I use only Region 1 disks combined with region-free hardware and software. Should RCE pose a problem, I will switch my drive either temporarily or permanently to Region 1.

The idea is simple - by refusing to participate in the region game, I do my part to bring this harmful system down. If enough people do so, disks of other regions will enjoy less sales, become unprofitable to publish and give way to the global usage of Region 1.

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"We are the universe, trying to figure itself out.
Unfortunately we as software lack any coherent documentation."
-- Delenn
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>If I were a "suit" at Warner Home Video, I would be against publishing Babylon 5 in RCE (region code enhanced) format. The disks are meant to be sold internationally and Warner is aware of this.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Er, no, they're ment to be sold within Region 1 (and indeed it would seem region 4 is also getting a release).

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Personally, I ignore the existence of other regions besides Region 1. As a protest against the illegal act of competition suppressment and censorship known as the region code system, I use only Region 1 disks combined with region-free hardware and software. Should RCE pose a problem, I will switch my drive either temporarily or permanently to Region 1.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Surely you should be supporting Region 0 disks then? And besides, it's not like region 1 actually gets all the DVD releases first anyway... Buffy and Stargate SG1 come somewhat to mind here.

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Paddy Sinclair

"I think it's an excellent plan. But then, I've been shot through the head on five or six occasions"- Troop Leader Keitel, The Corps

[This message has been edited by frobisher (edited November 28, 2001).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by frobisher:
Surely you should be supporting Region 0 disks then? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And just how many Region 0 disks - and I mean movies/TV shows, not, say, music videos, concert recordings etc - are there?? One cannot support something that pretty much doesn't exist.

I have to agree though that since a R4 and R2 release of ITB/Gathering has been released/will be out in a few months, it would be safe to assume that the suits at WB are *not* expecting people outside R1 to buy the R1 disk.

They are expecting us in R2 to buy the two ridiculously expensive disks instead of one affordable set.

It's less hassle to get a R1 disk and just set my drive permanently on R1, that's for sure. After all, I haven't actually seen any R2 movies here that I would even want to rent, let alone buy... believe me, the selection we get here is tiny and it sucks.

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"Narns, Humans, Centauri... we all do what we do for the same reason: because it seems like a good idea at the time." - G'Kar, Mind War
Kribu's Lounge | kribu@ranger.b5lr.com
 
I consider supporting Region 1 to be the best way.

This is the home market of most movie studios -- the parties most interested in maintaining price differences and market separation. While they can "take measures" to remove Region 0 from the scheme, they are unable to do anything against Region 1 -- as this market has the largest number of disks, players and software already produced and in use. Region 1 becoming the global de facto standard would cut off their retreat path. They would have to either:

1. Go along, modify their distribution channels and start exporting Region 1 directly...
smile.gif


2. Try to restricting exports, violating several free trade treaties in the process.
wink.gif


Trying to aggressively limit exports from Region 1 would provide a chance for open DVD associations and consumers' groups to introduce the studios' motivation to a "wider audience". I am fairly certain they would not want the trouble this apporach promises them.

[This message has been edited by Lennier (edited November 28, 2001).]
 
Unfortunately I don't have access to the WB site. (Tried to talk them into it, but failed.
smile.gif
) I was sent a screen cap of the page concerned by someone who does have access, but it had very few details and is currently trapped inside a dead hard drive, so I can't check it at the moment.

However, since Warner Bros. was one of the studios that developed Region Code Enhanced (RCE) to defeat region-free players, and since Warner units in Australia and the U.K. are releasing their own vesions, I would guess that RCE is being used on the discs.

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division

joseph-demartino@att.net
 
The great thing is that they can "develop" new and sillier solutions as much as they want... they still have to maintain compatibility with the standards existing players follow.

This makes their attempt essentially futile because a good region-free drive can read everything an ordinary Region 1 drive can. Some can be infinitely switched between regions, emulating R1 even in the most minute details.

RCE will surely disturb many multiregion users. It will focus new attention on Hollywood's efforts to use controlled distribution channels instead of competitive, efficient and consumer-friendly ones.

[This message has been edited by Lennier (edited November 28, 2001).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by drakh:
I don't know about other countries, but in Norway, in order to protect the inerest of the local distributor, it's ilegal for shops to sell region 1 titles unless they've been out 6+ months with no region 2 release forthcoming.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But is it illegal for an individual to order/buy a R1 release from the States or someplace else?

Protecting the local market makes sense. OTOH, while a country has every right to use protective measures on a large (retail) scale, would it be legal for the US to limit export of R1 disks to willing buyers in other countries?

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"Narns, Humans, Centauri... we all do what we do for the same reason: because it seems like a good idea at the time." - G'Kar, Mind War
Kribu's Lounge | kribu@ranger.b5lr.com
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Adam:
Package Type: Keep Case
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hope that means a amaray/alpha case because snapper cases aren't really keep cases. lol

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No one here is exactly what he appears.
G'Kar - Andreas Katsulas

Nothing's the same anymore.
Commander Sinclair - Michael O'Hare

Babylon 5
 
I really need to get into this DVD thing more, what is this whole region debate? I actually have no idea what you're talking about. And if it is a Region 1 Disc, am I in Region 1?

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I am Yu Lau! I am nobody's bitch! You are mine!
 
Sol, if you read Adam's post, you'll see it says "Region 1 encoding (US and Canada only)". So I would assume that Canada is R1.

The whole region thing... well, they've divided the globe into 6 regions (IIRC), and each region *should* only have access to DVD-players that are set on their region and can only play DVDs encoded for their region.

US & Canada are R1, Europe is R2, Australia/NZ is R4, from what I can remember. Now, technically speaking, we in Estonia should really be R3 (since somehow Russia managed to snatch the rights for Baltic states) but I don't think anyone has ever followed that here - so the shops sell R2 players and R2 disks (which makes sense since they import most of the stuff from Finland).

The problem is that while R1 is pretty sure to get almost all the stuff that's released on DVD, the other regions either don't or do much later. The whole point of the region stuff is to protect local movie/TV markets - i.e. the people shouldn't be able to buy a movie on DVD before it gets a theatrical release in their country.

There are plenty of region-free DVD players around, as well as hacks for region-set players that enable the player to play all disks. That's why the RCE was invented - so that people with a region-free player can't watch e.g. an R1 disk.

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"Narns, Humans, Centauri... we all do what we do for the same reason: because it seems like a good idea at the time." - G'Kar, Mind War
Kribu's Lounge | kribu@ranger.b5lr.com
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lennier:
2. Try to restricting exports, violating several free trade treaties in the process.
wink.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I don't know about other countries, but in Norway, in order to protect the inerest of the local distributor, it's ilegal for shops to sell region 1 titles unless they've been out 6+ months with no region 2 release forthcoming.

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"When a spark goes online, there's great joy --
When one's extinguished, the universe weeps." (audio)
-- Rhinox, "The Spark", Beast Wars

drakh@spamcop.net
 
Someone should get a slapping for that, that's unfair. That's a hundred times as worse as restricting P2P Sharing, since this way you are actually paying for the disk, and they won't let you play it.

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I am Yu Lau! I am nobody's bitch! You are mine!
 
The region code system created by DVDCCA (DVD Copy Control Association) and MPAA (Motion Picture Association of America) has been deemed illegal by courts in several countries -- as a form of censorship. Consumer groups and open DVD associations have declared it illegal on many more reasons:

1. A copyright violation. A copyright holder has no right to discriminate against paying customers basing on their location.

2. A violation of fair competition laws. An association of dominant producers using their influence to suppress competition and maintain conrol over distribution chains.

Most countries have taken no stance. Some have given in to DVDCCA/MPAA blackmail, restricting sales of foreign disks and multiregion equipment. Perhaps someone would also like to lobby for no sales of foreign books? Perhaps we should not read/listen/watch anything not from our counry? Most justifications for the region code system are malicious nonsense.

---

The region code system seeks to artificially divide the world. It constitutes censorship and limits the free exchange of ideas. Its supporters use closed standards and lawsuits to harrass the individuals and companies who bypass it. It serves the explicit goal of profit. If it were meant to protect, there would a be timestamp system with expiring region codes.

There is a serious risk of it succeeding. But this risk is balanced by the hope that it fails. It is within our power as consumers to make it fail -- as a lesson for future monopolists. I will personally do everything I can.

---

To show how utter nonsense the region code system is, let me ask you a question. Would you like your favourite book to be only readable in Europe? Australia? China? What if Linux were only usable in Finland? What if Windows would only be usable in America?

The "local" cinema industries Hollywood claims to "protect" are not local industries, just their distributors. The region code system actually harms local production. It is good only for maintaining price differences (and not having to bother with worldwide releases).

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What is worse - some large corporations (Sony for example) have significant stakes both the movie industry and video equipment. This is why you should avoid Sony DVD players.

Pioneer has gone along with the system while leaving the possibility to modify most of its products. Pioneer players are modified by switching them to a regionless mode (RPC1) which preceeded current region-locked drives (RPC2). This may create problems with the "RCE-contaminated" disks.

Being a large computer company with less connections to MPAA, NEC has chosen to make drives which can be hacked in a better way. After altering, NEC drives are seemingly region-locked but you can change regions infinitely.

The best solution would be producing completely multiregion DVD drives, but getting a license for this from DVDCCA is impossible (to reverse-engineer and use DVD technology without their license, you will have hire an entire army of very good lawyers). Therefore we should not direct our anger at computer companies -- they have chosen to keep both sides happy.

They buy the license to avoid lawsuits and leave a back door into most products so hackers can do the modification. Luckily DVDCCA has no hope of ever stopping the hackers, who in this case do a very commendable job of allowing consumers to use their lawful rights.

We as consumers can destroy the region code system by always choosing region-free or hackable hardware and using only Region 1 disks (R1 is the home market of MPAA, the market which they can't escape from).

We should make sure our countries will not try to please DVDCCA or MPAA by resticting imports or exports. Some World Trade Organisation treaties should also prevent that. More coverage on this issue can be found at www.opendvd.org

[This message has been edited by Lennier (edited November 30, 2001).]
 
Region 1 is valid, its content is designed to be seen on NTSC tvs using 525 lines.

Region 2 is valid, its content is for PAL tvs in 625 lines.

Places like Australia should be Region 2 rather than Region 4.

France should have its own Region because it uses SECAM format.

Spain and Spanish speaking parts of South America being in different Regions is unnecessary.

VHS cassettes are not Region coded. They are simply in either NTSC or PAL format.

The technological advances that allows silicon chips to handle PAL and NTSC were probably unpredictable by Hollywood. Consequently, a machine readable method of marking DVDs to show which format they are in is quite valid. Adding the Regional information to the DVDs is a luxury.

It is an odd luxury that renders a product unfit for it purpose. Multi-region players work by basically ignoring the Region information.

Copyright. I have the music CD called 'Whitney The Greatest Hits' beside me. This plays on computers all over the world. The copyright is handled by 2 lines of text on the paper inside.

When Region 1 DVDs are imported into the UK the copyright fee has already been paid in the United States. The studios have no moral authority to demand any further fee. Although since it is no longer in the USA, the studios may have an ethical duty to replay the copyright fee to the USA shops.

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Andrew Swallow
 
Yes, analog output format is an issue on TV-based systems. Possibly valid enough for separate PAL and NTSC releases. However, a very large portion of current stand-alone DVD players can use both.

DVD video is compressed in MPEG2, a format independent of viewing platform. You can view all DVD disks on a computer and your video card can output the same signal in either VGA, PAL or NTSC. Unless the region code system prevents you from viewing it at all.

If a stand-alone DVD player has the necessary hardware/software to make the conversion, it too can display both PAL and NTSC.

[This message has been edited by Lennier (edited December 01, 2001).]
 
I have the DVD, and it is NOT RCE. I am in the UK, it's R1 encoded and plays fine on any Region Free player
smile.gif


Hope this helps...

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The One - You live, to serve...
 

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