KoshFan
Regular
...or maybe I'd just like to think that it was inevitable. What's certainly inevitable is that this particular thread is either going to get lots of rotten vegetables thrown at it, or perhaps it'll be completely shunned. Anyway, I whipped this up yesterday in a fit of comparison madness. I'm well aware that it's all a matter of taste -- so if people want to do their own comparisons to adequately reflect their tastes, then more power to them.
Anyway, here it is... drumroll, please....
FIREFLY VS. BABYLON 5
A Point to Point Comparison
THE CAPTAINS:
Mal Reynolds
-- Funnier
-- Better shot/better hand-to-hand fighter
-- Sexier
-- More complex
-- Knows his ship inside and out
-- Lost in the last war
-- Cynical survivor
-- Very protective of his crew
-- Definitely darker
-- Loves apples
John Sheridan
-- Better pilot
-- Better tactician
-- Better family man
-- Still exploring his station after a year
-- Won the only victory in the last war
-- Idealistic crusader
-- Very protective of his father
-- Definitely more epic
-- Loves oranges
Both are equally hassled and harried, both experience the loneliness of command, both are rebels against the established authority.
Result: Mal edges Sheridan. Dark and complicated is more interesting than epic.
THE LOVE INTERESTS:
Inara Serra
-- More self-confident
-- Mysterious past
-- Conflicted about her emotions
-- Emotional core of the crew
-- Great deus ex machina on occasion
-- Undeniably hotter
Delenn
-- Self-confidence fluctuates
-- Troubled by her past
-- Conflicted about necessary actions
-- Spiritual core of the station
-- Fantastic speeches
-- Most dramatic arrival (in Severed Dreams)
Both are graceful and quick-witted.
Result: What are we aiming for here? As a pure love interst, Inara wins. As a great leader in her own right, Delenn easily trumps her. On the whole this one goes to Delenn.
THE SECOND-IN-COMMAND
Zoe
-- Mostly happily married and still kicking ass
-- Better fighter
-- Absolutely reliable
-- Concocts solid plan to free her captain
Susan Ivanova
-- Extremely unhappy personal life
-- Better pilot
-- Reliable but can be pushed too far
-- Unable to free her captain
Both are sexy, confident, and very funny. Extra points to Ivanova for dealing with Drazi on a regular basis.
Result: Ivanova edges Zoe as more interesting overall.
THE CHIEF OF SECURITY
Jayne Cobb
-- Mind in the gutter
-- Largely unscrupulous
-- Absolutely deadly in a fight
-- Wears a ridiculous hat
-- Is known to stab people in the back
Michael Garibaldi
-- Mind in the gutter whenever Talia's around
-- Somewhat unscrupulous
-- Pretty good in a fight
-- Thinks a fedora makes a good disguise
-- Routinely gets stabbed in the back
Result: Garibaldi's love of Daffy Duck is trumped by Jayne getting his own ballad. Jayne Cobb wins this one, even if he is technically in charge of Public Relations.
THE DOCTOR
Simon Tam
-- Reportedly extremely cute
-- Gave up his promising career to save his sister's life
-- Can moonlight as a criminal mastermind
-- Would have had a steady onboard relationship if the show hadn't gotten cancelled
-- After getting shot, tackles the bad guy one more time
Stephen Franklin
-- Designated cheesecake
-- Risked his promising career for principles... and for a nasty stim addiction
-- Can moonlight as a rogue telepath rescuer
-- Never had a steady onboard relationship as his love interests never reappeared
-- After getting stabbed, just lies around hollering for a while
Both are extremely good at their jobs and have complicated relations with their fathers.
Result: props to Franklin for having to deal with aliens and alien plagues, but Simon wins for sacrificing everything for his sister. Rumor has it that he's also hottter.
THE WANDERERS
(Okay, this is a bit of a stretch -- but Marcus is a Ranger, he counts as a wanderer, and there's no real fair comparison to Book in B5. Stacked up against Brother Theo there's no contest at all.)
Shepherd Book
-- Could be deadly if he chose to be
-- Very wise spiritually
-- Extremely mysterious past
-- Celibate by choice
Marcus Cole
-- Deadly
-- Very heroic
-- Troubled past
-- Celibate due to incurable romanticism
Result: A bit of a mismatch here, and it could go either way. Personally I lean towards Book but I'm going to declare this a tie.
THE PILOTS
Wash
-- Extremely funny
-- Extremely loud dresser
-- Appears to be wimpy but isn't
-- Endures torture
-- Expert pilot
Warren Keffer
-- Not very funny at all
-- Loud dressing extends as far as a kerchief; otherwise never changes his clothes
-- Obsessed with finding Shadows
-- Gets fried by Shadows
-- A good pilot
Result: Wash flies Serenity and handles her beautifully. Keffer flies a StarFury. Which is harder, folks? Wash in a landslide on this one.
THE MYSTERIOUS McGUFFIN
River Tam
-- Crazy, eliptical way of talking
-- Very young
-- Cracked genius
-- Very, very fast learner
-- Amazingly graceful
-- Can kill people with her brain... and her hands... and just about everything else...
-- Kinda cute!
Ambassador Kosh
-- Baffling way of talking
-- Very old
-- Very technologically advanced but isn't sharing
-- Slow and clumsy; has to turn sideways to get through doors
-- Can kill people with its brain, if angry enough.
-- In appearance, angelic... or looks like a jellyfish
Result: Hmm! Tight race here, folks, some very intriguing parallels... but despite my moniker I'm going to give this one to River on the basis of her heart-melting smiles.
THE SHIP/THE STATION
Serenity
-- Very common, durable design
-- Unarmed
-- Will run forever if the mechanic's even half awake
-- Resembles a bird, or an insect, or a horse
-- Can fly through canyons and pull Crazy Ivans
-- Deeply beloved by her captain and crew
Babylon 5
-- Last of the Babylon Stations
-- Can take out a destroyer
-- Underfunded and unfinished, she's always got maintenance problems
-- Resembles a metal tube
-- Can't move at all
-- Tied to her captain
Both are full of interesting nooks and crannies, not to mention fascinating people.
Result: Well. Serenity is much more agile and can go to interesting places. Babylon 5 is an interesting place. I'd have to say this one's a flat tie.
THE BIG BADS
The Reavers
-- Very scary because they used to be human
-- Evil, destructive, macabre
The Shadows
-- Very scary because they look like spiders
-- Extraordinarily powerful beings who like kicking over anthills
Result: The Reavers. Ex-humans beat giant insects in terms of terror.
THE EVIL AUTHORITIES
The Alliance
-- Bureaucratic nuisances
-- Very obviously copied from the Imperials of Star Wars
-- Clearly evil, with a few okay folks every now and then
-- Their evil Black Ops types wear creepy blue gloves and kill in an eerie fashion
EarthForce
-- Bureaucratic nuisances
-- Not so obviously evil, leading to naive folks thinking they're okay
-- Their evil Black Ops types wear black gloves and are called PsiCorps
Result: Bester vs. the Hands of Blue... I'm gonna call this one a tie.
EVIL WOMEN WHO TRY TO SEDUCE THE CAPTAIN
Saffron (AKA Bridget, Yolanda, and Yol-Saf-Bridge)
-- Brilliant actor; almost manages to play a player
-- Deadly in a fight
-- Knows her starships
-- Really hot!
Julie Musante
-- Irritating
-- Dumb
-- Attempts to seduce a straight-arrow idealist
-- Really not
Result: Do you even have to ask?
WORLDBUILDING
Firefly
-- Essentially the Wild West
-- Intriguing Chinese influences
-- Looks dirty, feels real
Babylon 5
-- Aliens mostly look and act human
-- When something looks strange, it's because it's alien, not because it's Chinese
-- Cleaner but still fairly lived-in
Result: tie.
CINEMATOGRAPHY/SPECIAL EFFECTS
Firefly
-- Went in new and daring directions with zooms, off-center shots, and lens flares
-- Flawless computer graphics
-- New and beautiful stuff every episode, very few shots reused
Babylon 5
-- Went in new and daring directions by using computer graphics exclusively
-- Looks a little fuzzy at points
-- Reused a lot of footage
Result: It's unfair to tweak B5 when it broke the ground for Firefly, but Firefly wins on cinematography. It's a darn pretty show.
WRITING
Firefly
-- Every episode has a laugh-out-loud moment, and most have lots
-- Some very touching moments
-- There are no bad episodes -- even the worst one is very strong
-- Many episodes have extreme plot grip
-- Good foreshadowing
Babylon 5
-- Very funny on numerous occasions
-- Brilliant speeches and a few flat ones
-- Consistently good but with a few howlers
-- Some episodes are extremly gripping
-- Great foreshadowing
Result: Point by point, I'd say that the shows are pretty dead-level here. Take the best fourteen episodes of B5 and stack them up against Firefly and they are all but equal. However, Firefly is more consistently brilliant, and a more fair comparison would be to stack up the first fourteen episodes of B5 -- or even more precisely, "The Gathering" followed by "Midnight on the Firing Line" through "Signs and Portents" -- and see how the shows match up. Firefly prevails by a nose.
OTHER FACTORS
Babylon 5 gets major points for the beauty of the Londo/G'Kar arc. Hats off to Firefly for having the guts to do science fiction without aliens. In the archcriminal department, Badger is by far better than N'Grath. B5 does epic well; Firefly does small and focused very well.
OVERALL RESULTS
Firefly prevails in nine categories, Babylon 5 in two. There are, however, four ties. Factoring in the intangibles and taking into account how close some of Firefly's victories were, we end up with a final result of Firefly winning overall but not by much.
Let the vegetable-throwing commence!
Anyway, here it is... drumroll, please....
FIREFLY VS. BABYLON 5
A Point to Point Comparison
THE CAPTAINS:
Mal Reynolds
-- Funnier
-- Better shot/better hand-to-hand fighter
-- Sexier
-- More complex
-- Knows his ship inside and out
-- Lost in the last war
-- Cynical survivor
-- Very protective of his crew
-- Definitely darker
-- Loves apples
John Sheridan
-- Better pilot
-- Better tactician
-- Better family man
-- Still exploring his station after a year
-- Won the only victory in the last war
-- Idealistic crusader
-- Very protective of his father
-- Definitely more epic
-- Loves oranges
Both are equally hassled and harried, both experience the loneliness of command, both are rebels against the established authority.
Result: Mal edges Sheridan. Dark and complicated is more interesting than epic.
THE LOVE INTERESTS:
Inara Serra
-- More self-confident
-- Mysterious past
-- Conflicted about her emotions
-- Emotional core of the crew
-- Great deus ex machina on occasion
-- Undeniably hotter
Delenn
-- Self-confidence fluctuates
-- Troubled by her past
-- Conflicted about necessary actions
-- Spiritual core of the station
-- Fantastic speeches
-- Most dramatic arrival (in Severed Dreams)
Both are graceful and quick-witted.
Result: What are we aiming for here? As a pure love interst, Inara wins. As a great leader in her own right, Delenn easily trumps her. On the whole this one goes to Delenn.
THE SECOND-IN-COMMAND
Zoe
-- Mostly happily married and still kicking ass
-- Better fighter
-- Absolutely reliable
-- Concocts solid plan to free her captain
Susan Ivanova
-- Extremely unhappy personal life
-- Better pilot
-- Reliable but can be pushed too far
-- Unable to free her captain
Both are sexy, confident, and very funny. Extra points to Ivanova for dealing with Drazi on a regular basis.
Result: Ivanova edges Zoe as more interesting overall.
THE CHIEF OF SECURITY
Jayne Cobb
-- Mind in the gutter
-- Largely unscrupulous
-- Absolutely deadly in a fight
-- Wears a ridiculous hat
-- Is known to stab people in the back
Michael Garibaldi
-- Mind in the gutter whenever Talia's around
-- Somewhat unscrupulous
-- Pretty good in a fight
-- Thinks a fedora makes a good disguise
-- Routinely gets stabbed in the back
Result: Garibaldi's love of Daffy Duck is trumped by Jayne getting his own ballad. Jayne Cobb wins this one, even if he is technically in charge of Public Relations.
THE DOCTOR
Simon Tam
-- Reportedly extremely cute
-- Gave up his promising career to save his sister's life
-- Can moonlight as a criminal mastermind
-- Would have had a steady onboard relationship if the show hadn't gotten cancelled
-- After getting shot, tackles the bad guy one more time
Stephen Franklin
-- Designated cheesecake
-- Risked his promising career for principles... and for a nasty stim addiction
-- Can moonlight as a rogue telepath rescuer
-- Never had a steady onboard relationship as his love interests never reappeared
-- After getting stabbed, just lies around hollering for a while
Both are extremely good at their jobs and have complicated relations with their fathers.
Result: props to Franklin for having to deal with aliens and alien plagues, but Simon wins for sacrificing everything for his sister. Rumor has it that he's also hottter.
THE WANDERERS
(Okay, this is a bit of a stretch -- but Marcus is a Ranger, he counts as a wanderer, and there's no real fair comparison to Book in B5. Stacked up against Brother Theo there's no contest at all.)
Shepherd Book
-- Could be deadly if he chose to be
-- Very wise spiritually
-- Extremely mysterious past
-- Celibate by choice
Marcus Cole
-- Deadly
-- Very heroic
-- Troubled past
-- Celibate due to incurable romanticism
Result: A bit of a mismatch here, and it could go either way. Personally I lean towards Book but I'm going to declare this a tie.
THE PILOTS
Wash
-- Extremely funny
-- Extremely loud dresser
-- Appears to be wimpy but isn't
-- Endures torture
-- Expert pilot
Warren Keffer
-- Not very funny at all
-- Loud dressing extends as far as a kerchief; otherwise never changes his clothes
-- Obsessed with finding Shadows
-- Gets fried by Shadows
-- A good pilot
Result: Wash flies Serenity and handles her beautifully. Keffer flies a StarFury. Which is harder, folks? Wash in a landslide on this one.
THE MYSTERIOUS McGUFFIN
River Tam
-- Crazy, eliptical way of talking
-- Very young
-- Cracked genius
-- Very, very fast learner
-- Amazingly graceful
-- Can kill people with her brain... and her hands... and just about everything else...
-- Kinda cute!
Ambassador Kosh
-- Baffling way of talking
-- Very old
-- Very technologically advanced but isn't sharing
-- Slow and clumsy; has to turn sideways to get through doors
-- Can kill people with its brain, if angry enough.
-- In appearance, angelic... or looks like a jellyfish
Result: Hmm! Tight race here, folks, some very intriguing parallels... but despite my moniker I'm going to give this one to River on the basis of her heart-melting smiles.
THE SHIP/THE STATION
Serenity
-- Very common, durable design
-- Unarmed
-- Will run forever if the mechanic's even half awake
-- Resembles a bird, or an insect, or a horse
-- Can fly through canyons and pull Crazy Ivans
-- Deeply beloved by her captain and crew
Babylon 5
-- Last of the Babylon Stations
-- Can take out a destroyer
-- Underfunded and unfinished, she's always got maintenance problems
-- Resembles a metal tube
-- Can't move at all
-- Tied to her captain
Both are full of interesting nooks and crannies, not to mention fascinating people.
Result: Well. Serenity is much more agile and can go to interesting places. Babylon 5 is an interesting place. I'd have to say this one's a flat tie.
THE BIG BADS
The Reavers
-- Very scary because they used to be human
-- Evil, destructive, macabre
The Shadows
-- Very scary because they look like spiders
-- Extraordinarily powerful beings who like kicking over anthills
Result: The Reavers. Ex-humans beat giant insects in terms of terror.
THE EVIL AUTHORITIES
The Alliance
-- Bureaucratic nuisances
-- Very obviously copied from the Imperials of Star Wars
-- Clearly evil, with a few okay folks every now and then
-- Their evil Black Ops types wear creepy blue gloves and kill in an eerie fashion
EarthForce
-- Bureaucratic nuisances
-- Not so obviously evil, leading to naive folks thinking they're okay
-- Their evil Black Ops types wear black gloves and are called PsiCorps
Result: Bester vs. the Hands of Blue... I'm gonna call this one a tie.
EVIL WOMEN WHO TRY TO SEDUCE THE CAPTAIN
Saffron (AKA Bridget, Yolanda, and Yol-Saf-Bridge)
-- Brilliant actor; almost manages to play a player
-- Deadly in a fight
-- Knows her starships
-- Really hot!
Julie Musante
-- Irritating
-- Dumb
-- Attempts to seduce a straight-arrow idealist
-- Really not
Result: Do you even have to ask?
WORLDBUILDING
Firefly
-- Essentially the Wild West
-- Intriguing Chinese influences
-- Looks dirty, feels real
Babylon 5
-- Aliens mostly look and act human
-- When something looks strange, it's because it's alien, not because it's Chinese
-- Cleaner but still fairly lived-in
Result: tie.
CINEMATOGRAPHY/SPECIAL EFFECTS
Firefly
-- Went in new and daring directions with zooms, off-center shots, and lens flares
-- Flawless computer graphics
-- New and beautiful stuff every episode, very few shots reused
Babylon 5
-- Went in new and daring directions by using computer graphics exclusively
-- Looks a little fuzzy at points
-- Reused a lot of footage
Result: It's unfair to tweak B5 when it broke the ground for Firefly, but Firefly wins on cinematography. It's a darn pretty show.
WRITING
Firefly
-- Every episode has a laugh-out-loud moment, and most have lots
-- Some very touching moments
-- There are no bad episodes -- even the worst one is very strong
-- Many episodes have extreme plot grip
-- Good foreshadowing
Babylon 5
-- Very funny on numerous occasions
-- Brilliant speeches and a few flat ones
-- Consistently good but with a few howlers
-- Some episodes are extremly gripping
-- Great foreshadowing
Result: Point by point, I'd say that the shows are pretty dead-level here. Take the best fourteen episodes of B5 and stack them up against Firefly and they are all but equal. However, Firefly is more consistently brilliant, and a more fair comparison would be to stack up the first fourteen episodes of B5 -- or even more precisely, "The Gathering" followed by "Midnight on the Firing Line" through "Signs and Portents" -- and see how the shows match up. Firefly prevails by a nose.
OTHER FACTORS
Babylon 5 gets major points for the beauty of the Londo/G'Kar arc. Hats off to Firefly for having the guts to do science fiction without aliens. In the archcriminal department, Badger is by far better than N'Grath. B5 does epic well; Firefly does small and focused very well.
OVERALL RESULTS
Firefly prevails in nine categories, Babylon 5 in two. There are, however, four ties. Factoring in the intangibles and taking into account how close some of Firefly's victories were, we end up with a final result of Firefly winning overall but not by much.
Let the vegetable-throwing commence!